Yes, they should help for the simple reason that they are there to protect the people in that area. Seeing guards just stand idle while you're being attacked by something that they should respond to is immersion breaking. Perhaps if this mechanic is abused then some kind of penalty is imposed on the player, a fine, access to the area is barred.
Also what about the AI of the creature/npc chasing you into a populated area. Should it stop and retreat at the sight of so many people or the structures, or is it just a mindless creature?
What if you have a bad reputation with the area, perhaps the guards bar your way?
<~ Vaultarn Stormborn ~>
If you are dragging something in that they would normally kill on sight, I don't see why not! But if you pull in a train of things that aren't standard KoS fodder, and they haven't actually attacked you in the guard's sight yet? Well... why should they attack a group of bandits travelers going on a jog? :)
Funny you should ask. We were talking about this as a moral quandary in the bard forum since our speedy feet can often get us out of trouble, but our wandering feet can often get us into it first. If we stir up a mess of trouble do we a) keep running until the tether breaks (assumes it is short); b) run it off and dump it somewhere harmless by kicking in song speed; c) bring it to the guards and then help clean up the mess (assumes guards are active defenders); d) send the horde into a village and watch it slaughter the poor townsfolk (yes Dorothy, there are evil bards).
I think guards should react based on the size of the settlement vs threat. If the might of the Qeynos guard sees Fippy yelling Eco-terrorist threats and making yet another mad dash at the city gates they will rapidly and efficiently send him packing. If all of Runnyeye decided to attack Rivervale I think the halfling guards would close up the wall and wait until the goblins got bored and went home.
Possibly way too complicated to code though, so base it on faction instead? If the guards know and love you, they come to your aid. If not, they stand there idly and watch you beg for help and possibly die (um, I mean learn from your mistakes). If they hate you, look out! Why are you getting close to them in the first place? They may take care of the critters, after they dispatch you.
Vaultarn said:Also what about the AI of the creature/npc chasing you into a populated area. Should it stop and retreat at the sight of so many people or the structures, or is it just a mindless creature?
<~ Vaultarn Stormborn ~>
This is also an extremely valid point! I hadn't quite thought of it that way.
We need the Guards to help people.... but only so far!
IF TownGuard_Faction = Ally
(Guard says) Happy to help, Sir. May I suggest you take a little more care next time please?
He kills it for you ...
TownGuard_Faction is reduced a bit
TownGuard-Eric irritation with you increases a bit (reset when guard changes)
IF TownGuard_Faction = Neutral+
(Guard says) This isn't really my job you know... try NOT to keep doing this!
He kills it for you ...
TownGuard_Faction is reduced a LOT
TownGuard-Eric_irritation with you increases a lot (reset when guard changes)
IF TownGuard-Eric_irritation is high enough he will now only *walk* to kill the mob chasing you...
IF TownGuard_Faction < Neutral
(Guard says) Has that ugly pet you are trying to bring into town been vaccinated?
(Guard says) Oi!! Don't bring that mangy thing in here!
YOU have been booted out of town
YOUR TownGuard_faction has reduced
YOUR TownGuard_irritation cannot go any higher ... they find you a nuisance
YOUR TownGuard-Eric_Faction has reduced .... he is VERY angry with you and watches you!
In a nutshell, Town_Guards are people too!
If you are in good standing witht eh inhabitants of the City the Guard will do his duty, but he may be a little resentful. Keep it up and he will get more and more irritated with you. If he gets irritated enough, he will stop RUNNING to kill the mobs and merely 'saunter' over. In any eventm his irritation and personal faction will NOT go back up until the change of Guard. You will also reduce your overall TownGuard faction as the guards WILL talk to each other.
To raise any lowered TownGuard_Faction or TownGuard-Eric_faction go to the PUB in town where the Guards hang out. Talk to any OffDuty_Guard and 'Offer to buy the Guards a round'.
YOU have bought the Off-Duty_Guards a round of beer.
YOUR TownGuard_faction has recovered a bit (+25)
YOUR TownGuard-Eric_Irritation has reduced a lot (-10)
YOUR Possibly_bribing_the_TownGuard_Paranoia_Level has increased (+30)
Think that covers it ....
Well, this should depend on the faction you have, to those guards.
We all remember the good ol' Factiontable in EQ:
If you ask me, before the Guards helping you, killing monsters, you should be at least "Amiable". Ofcorse, you hometown/faction should always starts above "Amiable". And you should NOT be able to get EXP/FAC/Loot, if the Guards killing the Monster. The classic "KillSteal", we all love so much :P.
Guards see this chasing a player
Guard One, wets himself.
Guard Two shoulders Guard one into the gate house and says, "Drop the portcullis! Don't let that thing in!"
<~ Vaultarn Stormborn ~>
lyrina said:Ofcorse, you hometown/faction should always starts above "Amiable". And you should NOT be able to get EXP/FAC/Loot, if the Guards killing the Monster. The classic "KillSteal", we all love so much :P.
I agree with this statement to the fullest. Place this in lines with what Evoras stated, I am all aboard :). If you get the EXP/FAC/Loot from these kills, than players will abuse the system, pull huge trains and kite them while the guards kill them.
Lol, nice replies. :)
Should they protect a stranger, though, they would be on low wages, some would have families to feed and provide for, why risk their lives on some random adventurer that is a stranger to them?
Should they charge you a fee?
Would it depend on the mob attacking whether they run, stand idle or fight?
Faction or reputation system comes into play?
There is many things to consider in my opinion, I wouldn't want the guard to kill everything I dragged over to them, at some point they should just point and laugh as you fail to learn you lesson or pull something too dangerous. ;)
Like some suggested, it should depend on faction. If the mob is hostile to the guards or vice versa, the guard should naturally help. Otherwise, it should be a matter of personal faction.
Then there is room for differences among different peoples. Perhaps humans are orderly and do not tolerate any fighting within their cities and outposts. Maybe a skar city is a little more lenient. It would make sense for them to kill any hostile mob, but in a fight against a neutral mob, perhaps they let the fight play out. Maybe they are a cruel people that like a little UFC in the courtyard.
As a general rule of thumb for PvP though, I think faction should definitely have a bearing on who the guards help, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for some quirks.
I like the faction based idea but, also remember some mobs are KOS regardless of faction. I'll use EQ races as an example but you can translate them to PRF.
So, a giant spider might aggro a high elf and chase him. He runs toward the guards at Neriak. The guards are KOS so they don't help him. He either zones in or they kill him or whatever. Now the spider is there and aggroes the guards and they fight.
So, it depends.
Also, it depends whether there is a zoneline or not. Felwithe has a zoneline, so the city is never in grave danger from training. Kelethin, however, has no zone line so enemy mobs could train the village and need more active guards.
Kilsin said:If you aggro a mob and run to a city or town should the guards react and help you or is it your problem to deal with?
I'd like to see a more complex faction system that determines the outcome of not only guards, but all NPC interactions when dealing with players and other NPCs. Based on you, or your group's faction with guards and compared with the npc's (that you're engaged with) faction with that guard, they could react in different ways.
For example, using the EQ faction levels:
1. You're indifferent to the guard and the npc that you're engaged with is threatening to that guard; the guard helps you kill that other npc.
2. You're indifferent to the guard and the npc that you're engaged with is amiable to the guard; the guard helps the npc and attacks you.
3. You're amiable to the guard and the npc that you're engaged with is amiable to the guard; the guard stays out of it.
Soemthing to that effect, with different outcomes based on different factions. Also when you have a group in these scenarios, faction could get averaged, or take the higest, or the lowest. etc. then the guard reacts in that way. There could be a lot of different possibilities with a faction system like this that could make engagements more dynamic and interesting.
If there are guards, and you have good enough faction standing (non-KOS) with them, they should help you. Against their foes only, obviously: You should not be able to attack a wandering merchant, find you're in over your head and run to the guards to kill him off. Instead the guards should attack YOU then for fighting a friendly merchant :)
Guards should always help against aggressive beasts or animals. Not like the Freeport Militia, which apparently had no problems with Black Wolves attacking you. Things like that shouldn't happen.
As to how much guard coverage? I think EQ did it well: The city entrances have strong guards. So the newbie areas are well protected. Further out you find weaker guards, which will still assist you, but are not powerful enough to one-shot all opponents. Think of the Qeynos guards in the Plains of Karana.
I think it is important to understand the purpose of guards. In my mind the intent is to mark off areas that are supposed to be relatively peaceful and free of roaming mobs. The fact that a player of bad faction is being chased toward the city gates by a rabid wolf doesn't warrant inaction on the part of the gaurds. There are hard working NPCs and AFK players in that town who have entrusted their safety to the guard. Would you expect him to ignore a potential threat just because he isn't allied with the player being chased?
Do I think players rely on and take advantage of the situation, sure. Faction should play a big part in how the guards react to the player pulling the train. His faction should take a hit each time he trains a mob. The guards will always fend off the creature, but try their patience too often and the towns people will no longer want to buy/sell from you and eventually you might become KOS as a public nuisance. Maybe your reputation as a constant trainer spreads affecting your faction in other areas as well. Nobody wants to be known as that guy who can never finish off a mob.
Definite thought and purpose should be made in the positioning and AI of guards to ensure they can protect and serve without becoming a crutch. Guards should be appropriately leveled for the player/town/zone they are protecting. I would expect a rural gaurd to be capable of fending off wolves and bears while a king's guard should be much more experienced. The devs should give guards life and immersion instead of relying on them as mere roadblocks.
Remembering my newbie days and the “Hook” that had me coming back for more was that I knew if I could make it back to the guards in time they would kill off the mobs before they kill me (sometimes the guards would all focus on one mob and the others would still kill me, but at least I knew my corpse was at a safe location for a recovery). Guards are part of what makes a World/Zone feel alive and when they can assist you its even better; I remember my first character Halfling Druid in Misty Thicket and running to the Guards at the Zone entrance to Rivervale or near the Border-Wall when the eventual trains would come through. Now, I do believe Guards should be selective in what NPC’s they attack when a player runs to them for help, if it’s a Humanoid NPC the Guards should always attack but if it’s an animal or insect then it should be a 50/50 chance the Guards will assist.
Rint
I think factions coul be a thing sure.
But Im also with others in that the gaurds are supposed to protect the city. Its not just about bailing out the incoming player.
Positive faction = happy to help and no faction hit
Neutral faction = reluctantly helps and fines you or some such and minor faction hit
Negative faction = Closes city gate (i liked that one) and watches you die with major faction hit (mostly because they lost all respect for you after seeing you get your ass handed to you)
I think faction standing should be a secondary consideration for guards. Understanding the purpose of a guard in a particular location should help inform how they react. Most of the time, I imagine guards will be present in areas that should be considered safe zones where NPCs set up shop and PCs hang out/go afk/whatever. As such, if someone is training some mobs towards the guards, their first priority is risk assessment. "Are these incoming mobs hostile; if yes, are they a threat in any way to these people I am enlisted to protect; if yes, I need to engage and neutralize this threat immediately."
Dealing with the player who trained the mobs should be a secondary concern after threat neutralization. This could be handled with faction standing. Example: positive standing = warning (friendly or aggressive depending), neutral standing = gold fine, negative = they attack.
Regardless, there should be no reward from mobs once guards engage them, exp or items or anything else, to dissuade players from using guards to assist them with kills.
