So I was doing some reminiscing tonight, and smiling inwardly as I thought of the old days where I used to spend hours and hours doing nothing in some older MMOs, and I began to reflect on the starter experiences. Some had it right, and others did not. What is the right starter experience for Pantheon, though? I'm finding it a tough question to answer. Lets look at some other games for a moment.
AoC: Hailed for its amazing starter area, and rightfully so. Tortage was amazing to play through, but levels 20 - 80 didn't reflect the same experience we had there.
FFXI: Simple, but well done. You were (and still are to this day) dropped in one of 3 capital cities, and you would beat on rabbits and rats until around level 10 when the grouping started. It was all group all the time after that though.
EQ: lol. Here's a character. Good luck! To be fair though, the experience was consistant throughout. It stayed that way, and only truely got easier when you made friends and grouped with others.
WoW: Simply brilliant in its starter areas. 3 per faction, and all were varried and different. You could make 6 characters, play them to level 20 or so, and not have it feel repetitive. Despite the variance in the early game, though, the 1 - 60 experince was consistant accross ALL races and classes, and that came together to create a unified end game. Still though, they weren't overly complicated. No crazy multi-chain quests telling far reaching stories. A simple 1 - 5 experience.
SWG: Let's toss in a sandbox example for good measure. The "tutorial" was you standing in a spaceport reading a few hard to look at popup style windows. You would then choose a starter "class" followed by a prefered control scheme. Then you were whisked away to your choice of one of three starter planets (I always chose Tattoine, 'cause you know, school of hard knocks and what not.) You had a basic blaster, and it could feel like a long road to that LLC your first time through. Ikob Otwoki was killed by more womp rats than I care to count.
OK, now to the point.
The forums ate the second part of my Op for some reason and I can't edit it in. Here's the last part.
So what then should Pantheon's starter area be? I think it's a very important aspect of any MMO. It sets the stage for the rest of the game. With Pantheon being focused on the social aspect of MMO gaming, I think it becomes even more important to get it right early. Shroud of the Avatar has had its final wipe even though it's technically still being sold as early access, and the Starter area feels "tacked on." Mainly because it IS tacked on. The players playing right now will have characters well into the release client's end game that never saw a fully realized starter area. The starter area is the first glimpse we will see of Pantheon's world. What should that peek into Terminus include? Should it begin the main story? How do you ease people into grouping? I know some of you want to dump everyone directly on the slopes of Mt Doom with nothing but a Rusty Dagger and a loincloth, but I think a more structured approach to the first few levels would go a long way towards making one's journey in Pantheon a smooth, cohesive, and enjoyable ride. What would your approach be?
Something small, but I remember EQII's starter island had named mobs (unrelated to quests/story) that you could get to spawn by figuring out what to do with some random items. I think something like that could be a good opportunity to promote early grouping and working together.
Something else— the channel Extra Credits on YouTube has some great videos on game design, and particularly two that concern the early game: Tutorials 101 and Starting Off Right - How the First Five Minutes Draw Players In
I think they're pretty insightful.
Note: I'm not advocating for a recreation of the Isle of Refuge from EQII, I was just drawing attention to some of the named mob mechanics that were present there and could be used in spirit to promote early grouping and/or social interaction.
Didn't think of that from EQ2. That's not a bad idea. It doesn't have to force grouping right off the bat, but I think it should get people talking to reinforce social behavior, like "How did you summon that?" or "How does the damn 3 seashell thing work?" Those were good videos too. I totally agree with Tutorials 101 concerning waiting too long to add the tutorial / starter area. SotA, which I mentioned above is suffering from exactly this IMO. Months ago, the tutorial was completely different, and had been worked on a little at a time from an early stage of development, but it didnn't fit the narrative (whatever the narrative is in that game), and the result is a tutorial that feels disjointed from the rest of the starter experience. I was immediately turned off, and likely won't play it again, unless I'm pretty bored. I don't mean to bash someone's hard work here, but it's just a great example of what I don't want to see happen in Pantheon. They had an opportunity to convince me that their old school approach was the right one, but they failed to do that, and I was left with an experience that simply felt, not "throwback" or "tried and true," but outdated. My fear is that without a convicing early game that Pantheon will feel the same way for new players.
He doesn't know how to use the 3 seashells! Hahahahaha! (Can you hear Rob Schneider's laugh?)
Anyway, rusty dagger and loincloth sounds great, EQ mode, drop me within visual range of my classes guildmaster with a 'new guy' note and let him give me a few tips on how to start. But... personally I'm an idiot at least 50% of the time and if I get 'lost', lose my bearings, and start to get discouraged I'm gonna need a push in the right direction somehow. I can see the perception system playing a role here.
I never cared for the sperated starter islands. Now if they had a tutorial island you could option, just to visit, where you get more hand holding, some neon signs guiding you through basic practices and concepts, but only allowing you to gain xp no more than 3 levels, then OK.
Otherwise, simply drop in game, near your trainer as previously mentioned. And just have a "tips/tutorial" window that we can choose to close or not.
One thing EQ1 did force you to do, is ask for help from others, which was your first introduction to the community. It also allowed you to put your name out in the chat, which, at least for me, lead to a couple other newbies sending me tells to form a group and take on the world together.
Nanoushka said: Even after playing other games with starting areas that were intended to help you out, I still prefer my first EQ experiences. Standing there as some utter noob with just a note and the game basically telling you: you're on your own, goodluck!... for some reason that to me felt like true adventure and like there wasn't one right way to do this, but only my own way. Go do whatever you fancy, even if it is mindboggling stupid or a waste of time (stuff never feels like a waste of time then funnily enough, everything is meaningful if I get to decide myself without a game nagging at me that I really ought to do this or that). I'd love that total lack of handholding again.
I agree with this! Even if there is a tutorial phase, give us the option to skip it on the character creation screen, before we even load the game proper.
Nanoushka said: Even after playing other games with starting areas that were intended to help you out, I still prefer my first EQ experiences. Standing there as some utter noob with just a note and the game basically telling you: you're on your own, goodluck!... for some reason that to me felt like true adventure and like there wasn't one right way to do this, but only my own way. Go do whatever you fancy, even if it is mindboggling stupid or a waste of time (stuff never feels like a waste of time then funnily enough, everything is meaningful if I get to decide myself without a game nagging at me that I really ought to do this or that). I'd love that total lack of handholding again.
Absolutely agree.
One of the things that absolutely hooked me on the game was in hindsight something that I didnt know existed. I remember repeatedly thinking, "Oh, ok. I get it. And wow, that leads to this!?" Being hand-held through all that would have really diminished the feeling of discovery and depth.
To add on what others have dabbled in already:
I enjoyed the scarcity or resources in Everquest along with item scarcity. I remember leveling up, not spending anything, because I realized at level four there would be no way for me to buy all of my Druid's spells. It made it a lot more enjoyable to NOT be able to buy all my spells when I hit the level requirement. Having to decide between which I should get and which I could do without led to actual thought being put into what I would buy. That didn't change for many levels and I clearly remember all the melee's rocking their new armor and weapons while I was in rags saving for spells. In addition, having to travel hours to get a group of spells from other cities was awesome, great since of pride to get through Kithikor and other areas like this.
To the point of the OP, I think the beginning levels should defiantly represent what a person will see later in game, so I think there is a need for a short tutorial. Perhaps introduce the perception skill through a quest, introduce common core features (auto attack, training skills/spells, etc.), and introduce/ (reiterate for avid followers) the need for grouping and teamwork.
Beyond that, I think the more that is left to be 'discovered' by the player, the more memorable and captivating the experience will be.
@P1999EQLandmark - Oh man, I'd forgotten about a lot of that. The choices between buying backpacks so you didnt ahve to run to merchants quite as often, or save for those spells you knew were right around the corner. The feeling of pride when you got those first couple of pieces of bronze armor, and the satisfaction of finally being able to smack a wisp with a magic weapon. You cant replicate those feelings with ease of access to content.
There are some things EQ did to starter-characters that were hilarious ... if it wasn't YOU.
1. Any Enchanter, Wizzy or Mage who started in Free port had to actually find how to get inside the Magic Guild .... no signposts saying 'step on this slightly different looking paving stone'. (Later they added sparkles so you could easily find it). Even when you got inside, there were no real hints ... up the stairs? Down the stairs? They all sold stuff, some wouldn't talk to you .... and the sound of Elemental summoning and spells being cast all the time in those claustraphobic halls! .... and that wasn't even the start .... by then you had forgotten how to find the main gate!! Heck, even when you dinged level 4 and wanted to move on from the newbie yard .... how? there was no 'opening' or 'sign' for where to go. No way to tell that the whole far end was a zone boundary.
2. Any poor Wood-Elf (I pity you guys) who started next to the treehouse-city. 'Kelethin' or 'Kill-ethin' as I referred to it. No hand-rails. No signposts. No direct routes to anywhere. Down ramps at such an angle you could not possibly see the start of them unless you were ultra-careful. .... and don't even *think* of having a beer when in town!! when you finally got to go to Crushbone. OMG what a nightmare. Poeple left and right 'trying to learn to pull' as they went. Aaaargh.
3. Halas *seemed* fine as a starting city. Unless your swimming was so poor you drowned. Or if you were foolish enough to zone into Permafrost. Or took the tunnel towards Blackburrow. Barbarians could barely see in broad daylight ... that tunnel was impossible! The only thing worse than getting turned about and ending up back in Everfrost was if you made it through to BB. It showed you what a taster of what you would be facing much later in your career when you finally got to Karnor-Central-Train-Station.
Having said that .....
... very little was needed to help you over the *biggest* of these. No full-on 'hand-holding' was needed. Just the smallest hints.
Better/more obvious signposts in towns.
Selling only weak (American) beer in kelethin.
Showing you the basics of using chat (eg scope of 'local' vs 'OOC' etc)
Give us a 'Journal' (real book in inventory) where all 'notes' (like your starter one) are put if you 'right-click + 'copy to journal'.
... thats all really.
The introduction levels should be just that, an introduction to the game. As such, if I am not going to have my hand held on a quest at level 30 then I should not have my hand held on a quest at level 3. The basic mechanics of the game should be clearly explained though the more complex elements should be left for us to discover ourselves.
The difficulty should increase at an ample level between levels 1 to 10 with level 10 being the general level of difficulty you will face for the rest of the game.
Starting equipment should be minimal and should be slow to improve, money should be sparse and you should have to really think about what will benefit you better as you will not be able to afford it all.
The first 10 levels should be memoralble, they should be a challenge that will make it clear about what type of game you are getting into and above all they should be fun!
Garper said:if I am not going to have my hand held on a quest at level 30 then I should not have my hand held on a quest at level 3. The basic mechanics of the game should be clearly explained though the more complex elements should be left for us to discover ourselves.
I'm not 100% agree with this. Most of the time, people just go on the internet to get informations... which I'm not sure it's really immersive or good experience.
Everquest was really a nice game, but still I do remember having to look up on the internet the map of the dark elf city to be able to get out of it at level one so I could go gain some XP - even with that map, I finally attacked a guard so I could spawn in the newbies zone. I think this was okay back in the day, since we were used with stuff like Nintendo Power, not so sure now.
MMOs are pretty hard to understand to new players, so personnally I wouldn't mind having few level where to game is a bit more lay back on "explore" by yourself. It should be pretty easy to find and understand stuff like guilds halls, gaining / using skills and spells. How to do questing and grouping etc.
I have great memories of the first 10 levels in EQ. Specifically trying to find Blackburrow in Qeynos Hills by "following the wall" (and still getting lost) and also fighting cougars and orcs in Everfrost standing on the frozen river.
I think whatever MMO you play first you have those types of memories. I don't need or want to replace that novelty but I do hope I can make different kind of great memories in Pantheon.
first 10 levels should give a taste of what the game as a whole is about. as OP mentioned, AoC 1-20 was awesome, i adored it, and was kind of expecting it to continue. when it didnt , the rest of the game quickly started to feel like a chore.
to that end, i dont want an instanced starter zone or island. since i believe we can expect a wide variation of challenge/mobs per zone, a new charcter should begin in a 1-20 zone. the immediate area should have things they can expect in the rest of the gamet, a few soloable mobs, a camp vor two that need a group, some perception spots, a mana climate spot, a storm that blows in for the weather system, a named mob or two and a level 8-10 dungeon area. but of course, since this is not just a starter zone but a full 1-20 zone, the chance to wander off and be in way over your head is there.
Dont put all class/race on same spot whit crappy tutorial. I loved Vanguard at launch had no fricking ide what to do and had to read and learn stuff from level 1 :)
I would just like a few early levels to myself to screw around and sort of get used to game controls, settings and get my bearings. People find my process annoying as most my buddies are ready to go in 10-15 mins, and I will take up to 2 hours. I will tweak and re-tweak in combat and UI and control layout until I get it right. You wouldnt want me doing this in a group. First 2-3 levels? After that nothing but grouping really.
As a FFXI vet I concur with the OP. It was nice but nothing special. But I do still get nostalgic about running around as a newbie in Sarutabaruta.
I think they should drop you into your home city with a nice into packed with lore and after that its up to you to chase more story line if available that early on. And the only low level quests I would want to see (aside from main story) would be class quests.
tehtawd said: I only have one thing to say to this. And that is 'first impressions are everything'. How in the world are you going to make a Good lasting impression of you don't really grab the crowd from the beginning. Sent via mobile -Todd
You would have to define "Lasting Impression".
IMO, you can ask almost anyone who played EQ1 in the early days, and they can tell you in detail about their first few levels.
Those same people and many that didn't play EQ1, probably barely recall much about other games in the early levels. I know for me I do recall my some stuff from early levels in DAoC, and a few tidbits from Vanguard, almost nothing from WoW or Rift.
Fulton said:tehtawd said: I only have one thing to say to this. And that is 'first impressions are everything'. How in the world are you going to make a Good lasting impression of you don't really grab the crowd from the beginning. Sent via mobile -Todd
You would have to define "Lasting Impression".
I recall tons of detail from my start in EQ1, but barely recall much about other games in the early levels. I know for me I do recall my some stuff from early levels in DAoC, and a few tidbits from Vanguard, almost nothing from WoW or Rift.