Social scientists have spent much time proving how we humans are linked to each other emotionally and physically. Others actions can influence others emotions quite easy, though everyone is different in there susceptibility.
It's important to show compassion. And this is one of the reasons why we guard our tongue. I often see when people rage against censorship they aren't always raging against compassion. It is because their own unique needs are not being met. Everyone is different. Sometimes what may seem to be a small hurdle to you is actually a mountain to someone else. Show compassion.
Sent via mobile
-Todd
tehtawd said:Social scientists have spent much time proving how we humans are linked to each other emotionally and physically. Others actions can influence others emotions quite easy, though everyone is different in there susceptibility.
It's important to show compassion. And this is one of the reasons why we guard our tongue. I often see when people rage against censorship they aren't always raging against compassion. It is because their own unique needs are not being met. Everyone is different. Sometimes what may seem to be a small hurdle to you is actually a mountain to someone else. Show compassion.
Sent via mobile
-Todd
Yes! This is how I roll
This is my two cents.
1) Don't be quick to judge
You don't live in the other person's shoes and you aren't an all knowing omnipotent being. You have no right to judge someone ever or invoke any feelings towards them especiallyy online.
2) "Sticks and Stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me"
Sad reality is words do hurt. People will get triggered by saying things ranging from profanity or even something frivolous, like, Bitterscotch Pudding
The great thing about technology is that you can literally block someone. So feel free to use it. If someone is being "offensive" around you, you block them. Case Closed. If you think they are greifing you or channeling hate/discrimination towards you, report them. Under no circumstance is it okay to jab back at them or feel entitled to settle the score.
In the real world people swear. Little kids swear. Some people grow up and they are completely desensitized to the words and other live like a catholic nun and never heard such blashpemy in their life. Since VR is aiming for as wide of a market as possible we as a community need to understand what it means to TOLERANT. As Kilsin has stated; the immplementation of a chat filter will hopefully fix that.
Join a Guild With like minded people. Do what makes you happy, not what makes you feel empty.
P.s. I swear louder and a lot more frequent than a Sailor. Also excuse my grammatical errors and any misspelling :P
A simple toggle filter would suffice and as long as like minded people who don't mind cussing like a sailor, Marine, soldier and airman so be it. I served the in the Military and there were choice times using cusswords and etc even tho a majority of the time we speak professionally there are times when the F-Bomb or any other 4 letter swear word is appropriate.
The sensitive folks can and should use the profanity filter toggle if they choose to do so. Censoring the freedom of speech and etc leads to more censoring which leads to tyrants controlling the masses. I think as players we also need to remember that our actions and conduct will play a major part in out interaction with each other.
I think the best approach is use common courtesy and respect and if you found yourself in a pickle with someone who was sensitive to your speech respectfully apologize and move on and not engage in whose right and wrong. Sometimes you can not fix the overly sensitive and they may need more life experiences to show them the world is not perfect and full of purple care bears and candy sweet dreams.
"He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight"
Sun Tzu
tehtawd said:Social scientists have spent much time proving how we humans are linked to each other emotionally and physically. Others actions can influence others emotions quite easy, though everyone is different in there susceptibility.
It's important to show compassion. And this is one of the reasons why we guard our tongue. I often see when people rage against censorship they aren't always raging against compassion. It is because their own unique needs are not being met. Everyone is different. Sometimes what may seem to be a small hurdle to you is actually a mountain to someone else. Show compassion.
Sent via mobile
-Todd
Social scientists are also the people that have told us that we shouldnt bruise the psyche of kids by telling them when they are wrong. Social scientists have told us we should stop awarding 1st, 2nd and 3rd place ribbons to winners of any competitions whether it be sports or academics to avoid someone feeling as though they've failed or that they are left out, and instead recommend that everyone get a participation ribbon. Social scientists have suggested the abolition of grades in schools so that no one feels inferior. Social scientists have suggested that the age-old practice of identifying a valedictorian unfairly singles out an individual student for praise. Most recently social scientists have promoted concepts that led Princeton University to institute a staff policy that excludes the word "man" from all vocabulary.
We are building generations of citizens incapable of being confronted with any thought that doesnt fit in a very specific box without feeling that they are being personally attacked. At what point have the social scientists completely jumped the shark and we realize that we have to be a part of the real world and not some idilic fantasy utopia that will never actually exist? When will we decide to return to arming people with coping mechanisms so that they dont snatch a baby buffalo from a nature preserve and take it to the ranger's station because "it looked cold and there werent any blankets at all!".
(No, I'm not making any of this up.)
Compassion is not about hindering emotions in everyday life nor is it about being oblivious to the lives of animals. It's about empathy and respect instead.
It's about not walking through life making others feel they don't matter. It's about not being a bully; it's about tolerance of and consideration for differing walks of life and experiences.
Being compassionate isn't a weakness, nor is needing compassion. It's about well-being, fun, teamwork and connection. All these things make us stronger both as individuals and as a group.
/mortalenemy Mortanos (he said Butterscoth Pudding)
Feyshtey said:tehtawd said:Social scientists have spent much time proving how we humans are linked to each other emotionally and physically. Others actions can influence others emotions quite easy, though everyone is different in there susceptibility.
It's important to show compassion. And this is one of the reasons why we guard our tongue. I often see when people rage against censorship they aren't always raging against compassion. It is because their own unique needs are not being met. Everyone is different. Sometimes what may seem to be a small hurdle to you is actually a mountain to someone else. Show compassion.
Sent via mobile
-Todd
Social scientists are also the people that have told us that we shouldnt bruise the psyche of kids by telling them when they are wrong. Social scientists have told us we should stop awarding 1st, 2nd and 3rd place ribbons to winners of any competitions whether it be sports or academics to avoid someone feeling as though they've failed or that they are left out, and instead recommend that everyone get a participation ribbon. Social scientists have suggested the abolition of grades in schools so that no one feels inferior. Social scientists have suggested that the age-old practice of identifying a valedictorian unfairly singles out an individual student for praise. Most recently social scientists have promoted concepts that led Princeton University to institute a staff policy that excludes the word "man" from all vocabulary.
We are building generations of citizens incapable of being confronted with any thought that doesnt fit in a very specific box without feeling that they are being personally attacked. At what point have the social scientists completely jumped the shark and we realize that we have to be a part of the real world and not some idilic fantasy utopia that will never actually exist? When will we decide to return to arming people with coping mechanisms so that they dont snatch a baby buffalo from a nature preserve and take it to the ranger's station because "it looked cold and there werent any blankets at all!".
(No, I'm not making any of this up.)
How's a black person supposed to cope with having the cops called on them constantly for the most basic of things such as going to work?
How's a gay person supposed to cope with loosing their job and appartment because their employer/landlord doesn't like gay people "on relegious grounds"?
How's a transgender person supposed to cope with someone stabbing them to death simply for exsisting?
(No, I'm not making any of this up)
Instead of "arming people with coping mechanisms" how about we arm people with proper education on how to act and behave towards others? We already have generations of people that can't cope with any thought that doesn't fit into their specific box and that's why there is so much hate being spewed around, because they can't accept that people are different from them.
I find it funny when people attack the "special snowflakes" for being offended by something but don't see the irony that they themselves are offended by someone asking for compassion and to be treated with basic human dignity.
When did I say anything about actual racism or sexism? When did I condone any discrimination?
And when did I say I was offended? I'm not offended. I'm just tired of people jumping to conclusions about how others feel, and prescribing new behavior for everyone. And doing so often to "solve" something that doesnt actually exist, and wouldnt be solved by changing the words used if it did.
[Edit] I'm not familiar with any real issues that are solved by effectively telling people to stop talking. But in today's society you're often told to shut up completely unless you're willing to say what others think you should in the words they think you should use.
This conversation is spiralling a little to much now.
Also Basic Human Diginity doesn't actually exsit. Look at history. It has never been able to be properly implemented just like how a utopia sounds nice but doesn't exist. On earth at least. It's basic human instinct to want both chaos and good in one's life.
I have taken a few classes in psychology, so i am no expert. I notice a trend that there are those that accept reality and those that expect their versions of reality.
Those that can't accept reality are the ones that need these coping mechanisms, emotions are very difficult to keep in balance especially when you believe the world is out to get you.
Some people say you can teach an old dog new tricks, some say you can't. I noticed the people who say you can't have very little patience. There is very little you can do to change today's society, but a lot you can invest in to change tomorrow's.
Also there seems to be a misunderstanding about the connotation of "Special Snowflake"
It has two popular connotaitons that i know of:
1) Someone with a mental illness or condition (Such as; mental retardation, or bipolar)
2) Some who believes they are entitled
Asking for compassion is alright, but asking someone to change who they are rather than accepting them makes you just as bad as all the biggots and homophobes. Speech is a part of who people are just as much as their looks, their body language, their anything. If they use it it's theirs. It is intigrated into who they are. Like I said I swear like a sailor. If you get offended by it, tell me I will apologize, but I will not stop swearing. Just because you get offended by my speech isn't my problem. It is yours. Because you choose to accept your version of reality over mine. Which is fine.
Also in terms of offering better education. Good Luck. America is screwed on that. Write to your congressman and hope he does something. Because half of them won't. With teachers being underpayed and tax cuts left and right people won't be getting educated anytime soon properly at least. Most people don't know how to balance a checkbook or the difference between a soup spoon and a teaspoon. So to each their own.
Peace, Love, and War is great and all. I just ask that everyone keep an open mind, especially when it is hard.
"How's a gay person supposed to cope with loosing their job and appartment because their employer/landlord doesn't like gay people "on relegious grounds"?"
That isn't hard to answer, just hard as hell to execute. You move on. I did. :3
Also had a cop accuse me of "crossing the border" you just gotta move on and fight for what's right.
In my life i try my best to never view myself as a victim. People die, some for really dumb ignorant reasons. Others for no reasons. It happens. Honor the dead, and move on.
P.s. I love butterscoth pudding, don't get me started.
@Mortanos --- Love that post.
And let me be absolutely 100% clear. If I see someone abusing a women, a child, discriminating against any minority whether it be for racial, ethnic, sexual orientation or otherwise, I will be one of the first to be willing to get physical to put an end to it right -NOW-. I dont put up with any of that crap anywhere, any time, for any reason.
At the same time, I will call out someone trying to cow anyone into submission because they asked a question or brought up an uncomfortable topic.
If you arent intellectually honest enough to have a debate, then you are the problem, not the solution.
Feyshtey said:When did I say anything about actual racism or sexism? When did I condone any discrimination?
And when did I say I was offended? I'm not offended. I'm just tired of people jumping to conclusions about how others feel, and prescribing new behavior for everyone. And doing so often to "solve" something that doesnt actually exist, and wouldnt be solved by changing the words used if it did.
[Edit] I'm not familiar with any real issues that are solved by effectively telling people to stop talking. But in today's society you're often told to shut up completely unless you're willing to say what others think you should in the words they think you should use.
I didn't mean to imply that you did, its just this notion that people should "get over it" or "cope with it" that leads to the acceptance of racism, sexism and discrimination.
I'm also tired of people jumping to conclusions about how others should feel, how they should feel about what can be a very personal attack against them but the person making the attack thinking there was nothing wrong with their statement or behaviour. For example this new trend of calling someone autistic when they do something really stupid, its not "autistic" its just the person behaving like an idiot, and it belittles an actual condition that people suffer from and creates unnecesary negative conotations to it.
"But in today's society you're often told to shut up completely unless you're willing to say what others think you should in the words they think you should use."
I can't say you're wrong in this statement, it's why I try to avoid anything like tumbler, youtube's comment sections etc. But its also true that in todays society, with the anonimity of the internet, people are expressing the vilest of statments and attacks under the guise of "freedom of speech" and "differing opinions"
Feyshtey said:@Mortanos --- Love that post.
And let me be absolutely 100% clear. If I see someone abusing a women, a child, discriminating against any minority whether it be for racial, ethnic, sexual orientation or otherwise, I will be one of the first to be willing to get physical to put an end to it right -NOW-. I dont put up with any of that crap anywhere, any time, for any reason.
At the same time, I will call out someone trying to cow anyone into submission because they asked a question or brought up an uncomfortable topic.
If you arent intellectually honest enough to have a debate, then you are the problem, not the solution.
Thats good to hear Feyshtey, and again, I never meant to imply that you in anyway would condone any type of discrimination. :) And I agree, if you are not willing to debate an uncomfortable topic, you will never be able to change anyones views about it. Discussion and open conversation is the only way to reach mutual understanding.
I can just see kilsin. Looming over this thread with squinty eyes getting ready to shut down the topic if it gets worse but wondering if it already did. And so he has to admit the simmering pot is fun to watch and making popcorn and seeing how things unfold is a great idea.
*tawd laughter*
Sent via mobile
-Todd
@thetawd --- Oh I'm sure Kilsin is self-medicating at this point. What is the hard alcohol of choice in Australia?
But really isnt that a symptom of the issue I'm describing? We're so polarized and so gun-shy that if anyone does something besides tow the political correctness line every sphincter in earshot snaps shut.
Mortanos said: Also in terms of offering better education. Good Luck. America is screwed on that.
I *wish* I could refute this for you.
I teach Mathematics in the UK, so I can tell you...
(albeit I am circumscribed in what I can say: enforced by both British Law and for fear of losing my legal right to teach in the UK with no mechanism for recourse or appeal by any means; civil, union or otherwise.)
... levels of mathematical flexibility in Secondary Schoolchildren (ages 13-18) in the UK is at an all time low. Their ability to formulate and follow through solving a previously unseen problem is dire, bordering abysmal. So bad in fact that last years main Maths exam (for 16yr olds) had *thousands* of parent writing to complain and setting up a petition to the exam board to get the question annulled (they *did* succeed btw, and got it so all students were assumed to get it right by fiddling the grades).
But what you have in the USA today, we get in 7 years (for laws, business practice etc) or 7 months (for things like fashion or 'Tumbler use by kids').
I get called racist by students almost daily....
... I can survive this level of 'compassion' from my classes of 'precious snowflake' students,
... but could Visionary Realms and Patheon survive?
This is the worry.....
-Evoras
PS: Answer = Fosters or Kahlua I beleive!
@Evoras -- you teach mathmatics? No one could've possibly guessed this ... *cough*
:)
American education is just as much a trainwreck. My younger son is entering 6th grade and my older a freshman in college. (Sorry if the term freshman is a trigger...) Neither has been taught anything about the american revolution, the constitution, or the civil war. It's a couple of chapters in a week of classes that they vaguely gloss over, and it's left to me to tell them. But the New Deal, and the Great Society? Oh yeah, weeks on those topcis along with required essays.
@Evoras I hear and feel your pain. It scary to see the world unfold and even worse to see the direction it is heading in.
I am pretty sure that VR as with many other companies will have a zero tolerance policy for those who discriminate and will properly be disciplined that is not the worry. My worry is how effectively these display of compassion are viewed and settled. How is one disciplined. Who is right. The answer to that question is generally no one when it comes to a compassion. So how does one go about showing the community they care while not be insensitive to others? Some would fit that in the, you can't make everyone happy category. However is that truly acceptable? Why can't we make everyone happy? Everyone deserves to be happy. People can survive and So can ideas. I believe pantheon will survive as long as there are those willing to not only believe but essentially fight for it.
People say the best way to settle a fight is to seperate them, but that is a work around. Having people differenciated onto different servers based on ideals or conduct isn't a solution. Letting them be exposed and clash until they stop caring is how you solve it.
I have a dog who loves to play with my cat. My cat hates it when the dog instigates a play, but she will always try to start things but never see it through to the end. Eventually the dog learned not to get it's hopes up around the cat and let it do it's weird thing.
Feyshtey said:zewtastic said:It's cute how you think your use of vulgar language makes you mature, or is even in any way a sign of maturity. It's generally the opposite and immature, insecure kids generally use vulgarity to get noticed in an attempt to make themselves seem more cool and mature. It generally has the opposite effect.
I feel much the same way about people who use snarky passive aggressive quips.
I feel the same about self important trolls pulling holier than thou cards.
The hard alcohol of choice in Austrailia is beer. The alcohol content is a much higher percentage than the wimpy stuff we Americns drink. I trulty enjoyed my WestPac deployment many many years ago. I visited ports all over the South East Pacific and realy enjoyed beer from different nations. The simple BEST was Guiness Stout. Not the Guiness Stout we have here in the States - but the kinda Guiness Stout that you cut with a knife...
zewtastic said:Feyshtey said:zewtastic said:It's cute how you think your use of vulgar language makes you mature, or is even in any way a sign of maturity. It's generally the opposite and immature, insecure kids generally use vulgarity to get noticed in an attempt to make themselves seem more cool and mature. It generally has the opposite effect.
I feel much the same way about people who use snarky passive aggressive quips.
I feel the same about self important trolls pulling holier than thou cards.
Which is more holier than thou; those who want all people to change their behavior to fit an idilic vision? Or those that accept that there is a variety of people with hugely differing perspectives and wish to be left well enough alone?
Mortanos said:INB4 Kilsin Locks the thread or makes it magically "disappear"
Yeah, I've been anticipating that too. But that would be unfortunate IMO. Censoring people because some cant recognize that people have diffrences but are willing to try to try to come to some common ground is precisely the problem.
Zorkon said:It's not Censoring people.
It's more like putting the children to bed.
That is censoring people. o.O
The "putting the children to bed" statement is a bit silly here. It would be more childish to want to silence someone because you don't like what they have to say.
Okay, going to try and pull this wreck back on track
The biggest problem here is that everyone assumes that "General chat" is an automatic given in the game, Why?
Why is general chat even needed? Honestly it is nothing more than a stage for the Bigots, racist, religious debaters (for or against) and shock jocks who think its cool to try and spout filth and get a rise out of the channel....General chat is nothing more than a breeding ground for trolls. Why have it? Everquest did just fine for a long time before any server wide channels were introduced. You have /zone (ooc or shout) /say /group /guild and /tells for private conversations, why is general needed? Now before you say "well just turn it off" understand that if its there others will expect you to use it, it WILL become the default LFG, It WILL become the defualt /auction, it WILL become the default (and pretty much only) used channel so "Just turning it off" isnt really an option. Dont give the trolls a garden to grow in, dont give the shock jocks a world stage to spew their filth and hate...Say no to ANY server wide general chats (newbie chats, class chats, etc etc etc).