Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

I once logged in as a Lizardman Shaman...."Project M"

    • 510 posts
    August 7, 2016 5:46 PM PDT

    A long time ago in EQ there was a limited timed project that allowed us to log in as the mobs in Everquest.  It was nothing short of awesome.  I logged in as a Lizardman Shaman in Rathe Mountains.  I seem to recall the restrictions were that you could use the abilities and spells of the random mob you logged in as.  In this case - I was a lizardman shaman and had full use of all the sahmmy spells plus a few racial things I dont recall.  Another restriction was that you could play and even level up your mob - all the way up until you logged out - or was hunted down and killed by EQ players.  So I leveled.  and leveled.  I had an absolute AMAZING time!  I think I would up with 21 levels before a group of players from Freeport HUNTED me down and killed me.  Oh!  Another restriction!  NO ZONING!  Another time, I logged in as a Koalindil fish.  I only had a few abilities and it was in Qeynos.  But I was NOT limited to just being in the fountain under the Temple of Life.  I got out and was running around all over the place (Qeynos).  This area is a low-level starter area too (if you recall right outside the front gates where Fippy did his thing)  So I would run* up to a noob player and KICK him and run away.  As the mob was soooo tiny there was almost never anyway to catch me or kill me.  Eventually though a small swarm of noobs decided that THIS lvl 4 fish HAD TO DIE - and they spent a good 20 minutes tracking me down and killing me.  Again - one of the fondest moments I had.

    I would LOVE to see a new project with this in mind.  I would LOVE to be a goblin and to be able to level up and maybe be able to use goblin merchants etc.  And to keep the gobbie beyond zoning and logging etc.  I realize for all prectical purposes that I am asking for another "playable race/class" but I am not.  I also realize the propensity for misuse.  I mean, If I logged in as Nagafin and then ran around the dungeon and staying away from folks etc. until my guildies showed up - and then just didn't fight back while they killed me etc. - that would be bad.

    So - let's say there WAS a monster Project.  What rules would there need to be?  I'll start:

    1.  A specific mob list would need to be created.  First rule of Project M would be - NO RAID BOSSES!

    • 99 posts
    August 7, 2016 6:05 PM PDT

    Its an interesting idea, i tought about it a few times how to make it not exploitable by players since this would be all that counts at the end. There are alot of fun possibilities, i would even enjoy if you could play a raid boss. But dropping loot and such would be exploitable as well. Maybe you could play a Monster but its on a random different server and you wouldn be told which server your on. Or the rewards of playing a monster well, have to faar outweight the loot from killing it. Lotro might have some good solutions .I think it has a monster project but i didn play it for along time, and the first iteration wasnt that great.

    You would really need a perfect anti exploit system along with it to make it work. Otherwise it could ruin the game pretty fast. If ppls go hunt for easy prey and xps.


    This post was edited by Ondark at January 9, 2021 8:58 AM PST
    • 1434 posts
    August 7, 2016 6:09 PM PDT

    Lol. I've heard a lot of stories about this but I don't actually remember it. Must have happened at a time I was too busy to play. Sounded like a lot of fun.

    Not sure how this could be achieved today. There would need to be some way of incentivizing it for the player playing the mob. Would also have to be limitations to prevent mob PCs from griefing regular players.

    It really has a lot of potential though and would make the world seem like a much more dynamic and interesting place.

    • 105 posts
    August 7, 2016 6:16 PM PDT

    I knew it!  I knew there was a short term experiment in EQ where you could log into a mob.  I know I played as a fire beetle in Befallen.  Until you posted this I couldn't find anyone that seemed to remember that this actually happened in EQ.  

     

    • 510 posts
    August 7, 2016 6:28 PM PDT

    Wait a second - if it is a mob PC - it is SUPPOSED to grief other players!  All the way up to and including the players finally getting it together enough to hunt down and kill you!  As for anti-exploits?  I have thought of this as well.  AMybe we remove all but racial/class type drops?  Meaning that - in the example of the Lizardman Shammy?  He would drop things a typical Lizardman would drop (food, leather goods, a weapon) and/or things a Shammy would drop (totems, spells compenents, maybe even rarely a copy of one of the spells he could use).  Basically, make his drops so droll as to make it an unlikely traget o f continued exploitation (basically, there are easier rewards etc.).  Make it so that if You choose to play, awards you can get affect your ACCOUNT not the specific mob you are playing.  So let's say you log in as a Goblin grunt.  Lvl 1, rusty sword, the whole shebang.  Nowe let's give you a reward based on the time-in-play.  And further reward for each level up.  And further reward for each PC you find and kill.  And let's say the reward is based on maybe XP potions you can give your toons that are roughly equevalent to 1.5 normalized XP over the same amount of time....  And further, let's put an artificial delay built into the system so that you can not log in as another mob for a specific amount of time.  So if you rn up to your buddy and let him whack you - you cant log in as another mob for say 15 min.  And then adjust that time based on previous amount of play time.  So if you take your lvl 1 gobbie and run around and play him for 5 hours - there is probably not going to be any exploiting going on.  So no delay when someone kills him.  Adjust those time delays based on play-time, mob type/lvl etc.

    • 3016 posts
    August 7, 2016 6:55 PM PDT

    Nephretiti said:

    A long time ago in EQ there was a limited timed project that allowed us to log in as the mobs in Everquest.  It was nothing short of awesome.  I logged in as a Lizardman Shaman in Rathe Mountains.  I seem to recall the restrictions were that you could use the abilities and spells of the random mob you logged in as.  In this case - I was a lizardman shaman and had full use of all the sahmmy spells plus a few racial things I dont recall.  Another restriction was that you could play and even level up your mob - all the way up until you logged out - or was hunted down and killed by EQ players.  So I leveled.  and leveled.  I had an absolute AMAZING time!  I think I would up with 21 levels before a group of players from Freeport HUNTED me down and killed me.  Oh!  Another restriction!  NO ZONING!  Another time, I logged in as a Koalindil fish.  I only had a few abilities and it was in Qeynos.  But I was NOT limited to just being in the fountain under the Temple of Life.  I got out and was running around all over the place (Qeynos).  This area is a low-level starter area too (if you recall right outside the front gates where Fippy did his thing)  So I would run* up to a noob player and KICK him and run away.  As the mob was soooo tiny there was almost never anyway to catch me or kill me.  Eventually though a small swarm of noobs decided that THIS lvl 4 fish HAD TO DIE - and they spent a good 20 minutes tracking me down and killing me.  Again - one of the fondest moments I had.

    I would LOVE to see a new project with this in mind.  I would LOVE to be a goblin and to be able to level up and maybe be able to use goblin merchants etc.  And to keep the gobbie beyond zoning and logging etc.  I realize for all prectical purposes that I am asking for another "playable race/class" but I am not.  I also realize the propensity for misuse.  I mean, If I logged in as Nagafin and then ran around the dungeon and staying away from folks etc. until my guildies showed up - and then just didn't fight back while they killed me etc. - that would be bad.

    So - let's say there WAS a monster Project.  What rules would there need to be?  I'll start:

    1.  A specific mob list would need to be created.  First rule of Project M would be - NO RAID BOSSES!

     

    THAT sounds  like a lot of fun.   Hope the Devs have a peek at this idea. :)

     

    Cana

    • 279 posts
    August 7, 2016 7:01 PM PDT

    I'm with you guys 100% this should be brought back, griefing and all!

    It put me as a Fire Beetle in the Paineel newbie yard. There was actually player there killing stuff.  I was watching him and waiting. At some point he pulled 2-3 mobs and that's when I made my attack! He would have been able to handle them but not with my addition to the fight. He tried to fend us off until realizing he wasn't going to win. He started backing away, maybe he didn't know how to turn off his auto attack. Back and back he went, my health getting dangerously low as well. Fortunately he did manage to escape from becoming beetle food. Unfortunately for him, he fell off the cliff into The Hole and died. Muwahahhaa!!! *click click click click click click click click* (beetle laughs)

    Greatest day in my life.


    This post was edited by Pantz at August 7, 2016 8:46 PM PDT
    • 510 posts
    August 7, 2016 7:58 PM PDT

    LOL

    • 1399 posts
    August 7, 2016 8:41 PM PDT
    I was there early EQ, seems it was a random low level mob, I remember being a gobblin for sure, seem like an orc pawn as well, and yes a beetle. It was great fun.
    Grief... yes absolutely, that's your job
    Reward, the fun of it, change this up for a spell, no other reward given.
    Remember "Gems" boring! Did that once and thought "seriously?! But something like this to kill 10 min waiting for your group to log in
    • 1434 posts
    August 7, 2016 8:50 PM PDT

    People have to understand, by grief I don't mean kill another player. I mean gaming the system. There would have to be something in place to prevent too many players from becoming lizardmen in a single zone. A coordinated group can easily run around ganking players, and I can tell you right now there is a reason why most Pantheon players aren't fond of PvP.

    Imagine if a rival guild was to become mobs in a raid zone. Instead of attempting to kill the boss, they get a few people and stand behind the raid boss as a creature on the same faction. Every time the raid pulled the boss, they ran out and kill the clerics. There would need to be rules in place to prevent that kind of abuse.

    Personally I think this system would be amazing, especially for a PvP server.

    • 279 posts
    August 7, 2016 9:05 PM PDT

    They started you in a random zone as a low lvl 1-5? 1-10? (can't remember) mob. So it would be hard to coordinate anything. I didn't know you could actually level up but I imagine it would take a long time. If they kept it the same way it would take a ton of effort to become any sort of dangerous force. But sure if they enhanced the feature somehow it would be something to keep in mind. Dunno if anyone leveled up their creature to raid level, that would be impressive.

    • 1399 posts
    August 7, 2016 9:26 PM PDT
    Yes random low level creature in a random zone. You could not zone out, you could not log out, it wasn't saved in a charrictor slot, there was no place to sell loot.... actually I don't even recall getting any loot. I do recall stalking players though... following them, stating just out of reach... watching.. making them real nervous.. lol they knew something was up.
    • 2756 posts
    August 8, 2016 12:23 AM PDT

    Oh wow yes, I'd love that.  Would be awesome to give the option just randomly - we've spoken about AI variance in other threads - the AI occassionally being provided by people would be great fun!

    I never liked the idea of Creature Play or whatever it was in LotRO, because it was effectively organised realm-wide PvP, which I'm not interested in, but this could be a real "bit of fun".

    If I logged in and a notification came up in my character select saying "Emporer Crush available for 30 minutes" I'd leap in there for a laugh ;)

    Some people would be 'griefy' sure, but some would make it massive fun I'm sure, RPing Crush on a random rampage around his perimeter.

    Emporer Crush shouts, "GRAAH! You've ruined your own lands, now I'm going to ruin your noob zone in area! Why is that Dark Elf Ambassador more popular than me?!?!?! AANGRY!"

    • 763 posts
    August 8, 2016 1:46 AM PDT

    I also remember this (short lived) mechanism. I made a post (on a different forum) about this very thing ... but on a slightly different tack.

    Think of this:

    How can you integrate PvP into PvE servers without undly impacting them ?

    1.   You cannot 'play a mob' until you have earned enough 'play_mob' points. You cannot start gaining mob_points until you reach a certain minimum level. (this may be lev5 or higher). Once at the minimum level, you either earn points through (i) killing mobs or (ii) by using a slider much likle the EQ1 AA slider where exp is siphoned off into 'mob_points'. (may need to test to find 'best' approach).

    2.   Now you can exit back to the char-creation/selection screen and under 'create character' you choose 'race'=MONSTER (PvP). This window allows you to log in as an (initially) random monster. It will be of level 1-5 (initially) of certain types (humanoid/undead/etc). It will be on a RANDOM, other server. LATER you will be able to open up slightly higher level tiers of that mob class. Play enough Goblins and you eventually get enough monster_points collected to open up 'Level 3-8 Goblins' or lower level, but specific types (witch-doctor etc).

    3.   You now play as this monster. Killing stuff that is an 'enemy' of your creature earns exp and monster_points. The exp level you up in THAT creature, but monster_points will allow you (later) to start with better mobs. Player names should probably be forced OFF in the client. Undead will see in undead vision, beetles in beetle-vision etc. You will be limited to where you can go (within reason) and you will have that mob's faction (other mobs *will* aggro you if you are KOS to them). Players can obviously attack you.

    4.   If the mobs does not get klilled, you can log out as that mob for later. The length of time you can play the mob is determined by the time you play in a regular character (perhaps) or may be limited to 'max-time-slice' which is bought/upgraded using monster_points.

    5.   As you gain Monster_points, you will eventually be able to unlock higher level mobs, different mob types and mob-abilities. This allows you to 'specialise' in a certain mob type. Thus a player who keeps playing Orcs will eventually get to a much higher level Orc... and unlocks the Orc-Wizard too. He can now play as a level 8-12 Orc Wizard.

    6.   Eventually there should also be unlockable 'perks'. These will either be :

    (i) ability to choose mob name from a drop down list on creation

         so YOU can be 'Orc Wizrd Fire-Burn'

    (ii) ability to opt for a 'RARE' once per 2-3 months (time lasts Y minutes: this accumulated X mins per day)

         so YOU can play a (named?) Sand Giant / Emperor Crush once every 2-3 months!!

    These kind of rules would allow your 'casual' player to indulge in playing a monster a few times a week in a low level 1-4 monster. Only somebody interested in PvP style (or monster style) would put in the energy and effort to ensure that the were able to play the higher level mobs regularly and open up enough of the perks to be able to play the equivalent of a GM controlled monster.

     

    • 510 posts
    August 8, 2016 7:12 AM PDT

    Great post Evoras!  I can think of a few more mechanics that fall in line with this, but I am going to hold off on posting about them right now.  Let's just say I believe in analytics and that we should base certain aspects on the numbers generated for a few weeks...

    • 510 posts
    August 9, 2016 7:35 AM PDT

    I think another very important aspect is that this model/mechanic should in no way be REQUIRED.  I mean some folks just can't roleplay a beetle!

     

    Speaking of which - maybe there should be some sort of selection at mob log-in so that you can play a creature from a selection.  Say at lvl 1 you can select from dirt-poor goblin, Beetle, hung-over villager, or maybe even Magic-school dropout...

    • 1860 posts
    August 9, 2016 8:00 AM PDT

    It was fun but it encouraged griefing.  This feature was only around for about 1 day (or less than a day actually) that I recall.

    Since it was so new everyone wanted to play monsters.  I remember being in oasis and there were about 10 of us monster players who basically cleared the zone of all the low level normal players.  It was fun from my end but it would have sucked as a newbie trying to exp in oasis.

    • 793 posts
    August 9, 2016 8:08 AM PDT

    I remember reading about this, but never got to partake. It sounded like fun then, and even more so now. :P

     

    • 147 posts
    August 9, 2016 11:11 AM PDT

    philo said:

    It was fun but it encouraged griefing.  This feature was only around for about 1 day (or less than a day actually) that I recall.

    Since it was so new everyone wanted to play monsters.  I remember being in oasis and there were about 10 of us monster players who basically cleared the zone of all the low level normal players.  It was fun from my end but it would have sucked as a newbie trying to exp in oasis.

    It was fun for me as a player having mobs that had a brain. 

    • 510 posts
    August 9, 2016 1:23 PM PDT

    Obliquity said:

    It was fun for me as a player having mobs that had a brain. 

     

    /agree  :)

    • 172 posts
    August 9, 2016 3:07 PM PDT

    Great idea!

    Rule #2:  You can only do this once every 4 hours.  If you jump in as a monster, the timer starts.  That way, no one can keep leaving the game and re-entering in hopes of joining their friends/guildmates in a specific zone.

    If the zones and creatures are random, I dont see this as a practical method for players to all team up and grief a zone.

    Good fun here.  I hope it is implimented in a patch, maybe after 4-5 months.


    This post was edited by JDNight at August 9, 2016 3:07 PM PDT
    • 243 posts
    August 9, 2016 3:42 PM PDT
    This sounds like a total blast, I know it would make me look forward to the day when I got to log in and do it.
    • 1434 posts
    August 9, 2016 4:20 PM PDT

    I have to say that a well balanced player-mob system might make the early game more appealing for new players than anything else thats been suggested (mentoring etc).

    • 1399 posts
    August 9, 2016 4:33 PM PDT
    It was called "PROJECT M" and it was in 2001, since I belive Brad was still there at the time, how could we get Brad to give us his thoughts on this?
    http://wiki.project1999.com/Project_M />
    • 510 posts
    August 9, 2016 4:43 PM PDT

    Yeah - I referenced Project M above once - I wasn't sure that was the name, but I am glad you confirmed it for us - thanks.  I would LOVE to see some Dev remarks regarding this...