Manouk said:REMEMBER THE AUDIENCE
Nice to see alot of new faces (so-to-speak) in the twitch-chat. Nice to see familiar questions asked.
In the desire to move forward I also get mildly irked to go over old stuff and sometikmes fail at trying not to roll my eyes and belly-ache in exasperation.
That exasperation is felt by the newbie as condensation- I mean condecending- and maybe felt also as shaming or general "putting-down"
- just because someone new has not seen where I have been, and is walking that path for the first time and I give them a rabbit-face because they can't see that first step is a doozy...*phsaw*
Yes, isn't this forum nice, alot of good stuff here, can get a good taste of the milleu (sp?) of the pantheon community at large. And if you know the life-hack that says: "If you are the smartest person in the room, then you're in the wrong room" Well, I am proud to say that in these forums, I think I am in the right room.
When did proverbs become wisdom? when did wisdom become old-wives-tales?, when did old-wives-tales become....Life Hacks? 0_o
I like this definition of wisdom: knowing what you need to do, when you don't know what to do.
This is an Excellent point of view. We should be aware that some people that have not been exposed to Pantheon are watching these streams; or maybe they are complete MMO newbies. We will see the same questions repeat themselves as new people come on board. We should be careful to be inviting to these people because the game and the community at large needs new people to become interested.
As an old dude I have trained many people at work, and raised children, and enjoyed my grandchildren; I find a great amount of pleasure seeing the same thing through the eyes of others that otherwise would seem mundane to me. We need to remember that others are discovering this game (and it's reborn gaming style),and that is good. We need to make their discovery a welcoming one and help them learn about this great style of Gaming.
We need to remember this forum represents the type of social enviroment (Milleu) that a person can expect in the game and as such it is awesome. We have a very knowlegable and nice group of gamers here, and that is fortunate for our game as a whole.
Sky
Aside from placeholders, i felt it was coming along very nicely. The animations are coming along, apart from some of the mobs movements.
The graphics are good, and will supprise many of us in the end.
I want the UI to become way more streamlined, or the ability for others to make their own UI's so they adapt to their playstyle and likes.
We as gamers today like macros, and quick access buttons, or selections. Its very important it doesnt become known as "The clunky UI" game.
Unless something else is being changed that we are not aware of, removing the need for macros and hotkeys. This might be a bad idea if so, because Mice, keyboards will do it for us anyways.
I felt the collissions where done, and being done good so that someone wasnt pushed through the buildings. Mobs sync, and didnt desync through the floors. (balance tests will show this)
Over all i did not see too many issues with bugs, but being limited to the utube video game play mode i didnt feel there was enough to pop out to the audience.
Tools such as loot whore would be good for the leader :) COUGHCOUGH lol
What i was so much more impressed with, was the flow in which the group started to walk around the map. The running felt like actually running. You moved up and down along the road. It made it feel so much more like the 2016 games and not like the 1999 games. Good work there guys.
A rich enviroment, and mechanics can make it all feel much better in the end. Fighting mobs are just another part of the game, but to actually see the movement of running along the paths made me want to jump right into the game.
I felt the enchanter has power, and needs more AA's and AC :) since pulling massive argo. A spell to limit argo like you had before brad? remember 1-50 range spells. This way when the enchanter casts mez, a argo reduction below taunt can be applied. So brad next time can pickup on mobs without ping ponging them around. Which uses mana too.
I dont have access to the other forums, which i hope to soon enough or my comments might have changed some.
Great work all keep up the amazing work happening @ VR
Thanks
Skycaster said:Manouk said:REMEMBER THE AUDIENCE
Nice to see alot of new faces (so-to-speak) in the twitch-chat. Nice to see familiar questions asked.
In the desire to move forward I also get mildly irked to go over old stuff and sometikmes fail at trying not to roll my eyes and belly-ache in exasperation.
That exasperation is felt by the newbie as condensation- I mean condecending- and maybe felt also as shaming or general "putting-down"
- just because someone new has not seen where I have been, and is walking that path for the first time and I give them a rabbit-face because they can't see that first step is a doozy...*phsaw*
Yes, isn't this forum nice, alot of good stuff here, can get a good taste of the milleu (sp?) of the pantheon community at large. And if you know the life-hack that says: "If you are the smartest person in the room, then you're in the wrong room" Well, I am proud to say that in these forums, I think I am in the right room.
When did proverbs become wisdom? when did wisdom become old-wives-tales?, when did old-wives-tales become....Life Hacks? 0_o
I like this definition of wisdom: knowing what you need to do, when you don't know what to do.
This is an Excellent point of view. We should be aware that some people that have not been exposed to Pantheon are watching these streams; or maybe they are complete MMO newbies. We will see the same questions repeat themselves as new people come on board. We should be careful to be inviting to these people because the game and the community at large needs new people to become interested.
As an old dude I have trained many people at work, and raised children, and enjoyed my grandchildren; I find a great amount of pleasure seeing the same thing through the eyes of others that otherwise would seem mundane to me. We need to remember that others are discovering this game (and it's reborn gaming style),and that is good. We need to make their discovery a welcoming one and help them learn about this great style of Gaming.
We need to remember this forum represents the type of social enviroment (Milleu) that a person can expect in the game and as such it is awesome. We have a very knowlegable and nice group of gamers here, and that is fortunate for our game as a whole.
Sky
This! Thank you, guys.
I was very excited to see another stream showing the gameplay for Pantheon, and I appreciate the devs showing off the game. I am ridiculously excited for this game, and it feels like the developers and I believe in the same thing when it comes to making a great MMORPG.
I will say, when there was the loading screen into the dungeon, there were a few remarks that mentioned it as being a negative. Am I the only one that loves the idea of zones, and having a loading screen between them? It gives the zone such a distinct personality, and I really like the definitive layout. The main zone in is the entrance, where everyone will be LFG or even just pulling the outside guard mobs. The deeper away from the zone-in, the further away you are from safety. You really get that feeling that you are deep in a zone or dungeon by the distance away from the zone-in and where most other players will be (at the entrance). I really hope they do not transition out of the zone style content, a truly open world to me is overrated when you can really put separate zones on a platform and show them off with zoning.
Zerratul said:I will say, when there was the loading screen into the dungeon, there were a few remarks that mentioned it as being a negative. Am I the only one that loves the idea of zones, and having a loading screen between them? It gives the zone such a distinct personality, and I really like the definitive layout. The main zone in is the entrance, where everyone will be LFG or even just pulling the outside guard mobs. The deeper away from the zone-in, the further away you are from safety. You really get that feeling that you are deep in a zone or dungeon by the distance away from the zone-in and where most other players will be (at the entrance). I really hope they do not transition out of the zone style content, a truly open world to me is overrated when you can really put separate zones on a platform and show them off with zoning.
I also see the loading screen as a feature that adds to the flavor of the game. Who knows what is waiting beyond that zone line. Maybe nothing, Maybe a big Train of Mobs and a desperate fight being put up by some adventurers and the opportunity to be a hero. You may make the best friend you ever had after your opportunity to help.
Some thoughts on a few items in this thread:
Hi all,
Per suggestion i'm posting here as well.
Live Stream Drinking Game (For Live Stream Audience)
Take a drink whenever …
Live Stream Drinking Game (For the VR Streamers!)
Take a drink whenever …
o Pics or it didn’t happen
o Live Video of the dancing = 2 drinks
o Dancing with other members of the team in real life = 3 drinks
o Dancing with members from the Live Stream (picks/vid with time-stamp) = 4 drinks
Environmental Detail
Roads—I noticed the first road the group set out on was very highly detailed. The square bricks were very earthy and dynamic in their placement. It was nice that you could see some of the squares of the bricks upheaved from the ground through travel or weather. Very nice.
Tree Design—The tree’s look amazing. You can still see the simple geometry of them but it’s very difficult to actually see that unless your looking for it. This is a good example of artistic efficiency. I know a lot of computers aren’t going to freak out loading those tree’s, and they look so beautiful a lot of players are going to have no problem falling in love with their surroundings.
o Also great wood-grains on the tree’s and on the structures.
(suggestions)Minor Terrain Collision—I noticed when walking through the grass there is currently no collision mechanic which would look as though your character is parting the grass as they walk through it. A few other games have this in it, it’s a very nice touch. What it looks like is the grass just moves down and parts from its epicenter ‘slightly’ while the player stands or while they pass through. This suggestions is definitely a good one for ‘the backburner’ (IE, not that important but worth looking at later)
Loved the smoke particle effect coming out of a chimney @ 38:00
Lighting detail, especially on torches: Beautiful reflections of light. Overall lighting is on spot.
Underground Mine—Just had to say, WOW! The crystals and reflections of light. It makes me want to pick up a tool and chisel out a piece of crystal or ore and take it with me. Very nice lighting in this environment. The stones also look rough and placed just so scatterd-like it makes me feel there is a chance the whole thing could come down.
Perception—Finding that key …was amazing. The little que’s and the melody that plays when your finding it. Truly a fun thing! This is a winning idea, guys. If you ever make a trailer for this game, be sure to stress this feature, I think it will draw people in.
Spells
The Spell effects are beautiful, great job on making them look elemental and wonderful. This however will bring me back to something important to me however…
(suggestions)Magic in the Melee
Spells have a lot of time and money put into them. Make sure the SAME amount of time and money goes into the ‘ability animations’ of melee skills. Also, don’t forget to let melee classes use ‘magic’-they should be using mana too, right? I would be sad to see another Final Fantasy 1, where the budget went towards those who could cast spells, and the melee gets …auto attack.
A good example of Melee Abilities looking cool would be the ground shattering or upheaving, visable wind-currents WITH wind current collision. Character sprite becoming different size (temporarily). I am a fan of melee classes NOT being mundane and being able to use magic, so you can be just as creative as you would with a magic focused class that does no melee.
(suggestions)Casters and Melee
Do you believe Casters should be up hitting people with their staff? Or should there be some kind of auto attack spell they cast which can be a magic users auto attack? I personally like the idea of the magic focused classes always using magic, even their auto attack looks like they are casting magic.
* Wow, at 28:05 those glowing hands! Neat! First time seeing that.
UI
I really just noticed for the first time a little arrow on the group UI which points towards where other teammates are. This is a really nice touch. Thanks for that.
Targeting Circle—I noticed around 1:16:35 in the video when you pull the second ghosty-thing, you can see the circle which is on the ground is also transposed above it on the roof of the room. I don’t think this was intentional, if so, it’s distracting and not really needed. If anything it would infuriate cats who love chasing red dots. I guess if NPC cats stair at the sky all day bouncing their heads back and forth this is why. #reddotlore?
COMBAT
In Combat Sitting—Just a thought on this, I think it would be a more realistic approach to Kneel. Full on sitting down in combat doesn’t seem right to me, but if your kneeling it looks more like you could spring back up at any moment.
Dat Greatsword yo—Is HUGE. Something like that should not be one-handed. On another note … it’s BEAUTIFUL! Well done making that thing! It’s a great example of how you don’t need a lightshow on every weapon to show great detail. Beautifully done.
Overall animations look clunky and not very heroic—not all unexpected due to Pantheon being in Pre-Alpha.
“An ethereal headache: that’s got to be way worse.”, “Ohh I’ve got a pain in the undead.” –Rolled my eyes with a smile. So funny!
Death -- “You have been resurrected by the gods” can be changed for each Race to give more of a feeling for which race you are playing. Istuulamae would agree this could be one of those little nuances which hold more weight than we think it does for immersion into your characters race and the world of Pantheon.
“The fire of Kirin warms your body. The claimed laugh fills your heart--you have been Ressurected by the gods!”
“Your King has not abandoned you, he will always be by your side—you have been resurrected by the gods”
“The memory of glory and the tragedy of---“ bleh f**k it. I’m not the lore writer. Istuulamae back me up bro.
Risen Sentry—Great looking two-handed swing on this monster. Great job.
Other stuff...
Dat NPC—Wow …smokin’ hot ‘black dagger miner’. As if looking like a Greek God isn’t enough to make me weak in the knee’s you guys lost me at “He’s all oiled up man.” Just shut up and take my money. Lol!
Kilsin—Cute face! Well done! I hope those eyes with the eye-liner are available for guys too. Good detail on the face, even a little curl on the lips.
Closing
I loved the live-stream, I’m very sorry I didn’t get a chance to watch it earlier. This is my day off and it just works better this way. I hope this feedback was valuable in some way, even if it was just fun to read. Great job guys, I can tell you have all been working very hard for this. From what I have seen I have well-founded trust in this game growing beautifully. Though there is one thing….
I find the lack of turtles in this game disturbing….
@_@
#Turtlesaregreat
!
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-Todd
Question about Teleporting:
What is the thought behind no classes having teleports? I rather enjoyed the Pre-PoP days of EQ with the Wizard and Druid ports. I liked how you had to be the appropriate levels to gain access to the spells for those zones and for party ports to those zones.
I enjoyed seeing Kilsin have a 'brief lupine aura' (in the text) at the keep entrance iirc.
The whole stream was worth watching for me just to wonder about the Arrows adjacent to group members in the beginning, then to hear Brad later on say: "That's our version of a minimap. Yep. That's it. That is basically all you are going to get aside from a larger map with a vague idea where you are." (paraphrased) 10000000x this.
Lokkan said:I enjoyed seeing Kilsin have a 'brief lupine aura' (in the text) at the keep entrance iirc.
The whole stream was worth watching for me just to wonder about the Arrows adjacent to group members in the beginning, then to hear Brad later on say: "That's our version of a minimap. Yep. That's it. That is basically all you are going to get aside from a larger map with a vague idea where you are." (paraphrased) 10000000x this.
+1
Call me hardcore or whatever, but the arrows should only supplement the limitations of your video game audio/visual perception, not provide you with the ability to magically track down people in your group.
Dullahan said:+1
Call me hardcore or whatever, but the arrows should only supplement the limitations of your video game audio/visual perception, not provide you with the ability to magically track down people in your group.
Agreed. I hope, as for many UI elements, this is a toggable feature of the party list. I can't personally recall a time where I wasn't aware of my party's position in my immediate area, except possibly when running through some tight corridors.
As for a mini-map in general, I would have loved to seen some sort of cartography skill that could map out zones and sell the maps for good plat on the player market or perhaps a dedicated NPC that can resell the maps to players when in stock.
Dekaden said:Some thoughts on a few items in this thread:
- Macros: I agree that I don't want this game to become a screen full of hotbars like EQ2, although I am pessimistic about allowing ability macros. Seeing what this did to Rift was very sad, and what I would consider an extreme abuse of macroing. If executable abilities are limited in number (think: spell loadout, like the spell gem bar in EQ. You may know 100+ spells, but only have access to 8 that you have memorized), then I don't think macros that include abilities will be necessary. However, I would love to see text macros combined with /cast commands for single spells. This would keep the spirit of EQ and group messaging alive (pull messages, etc)
I see where you are going with this, however we have keyboards and mice and software that can do much of the macros. So taking it out of the game only forces some of us to use macros on those hardware devices. Such as /cast 1, /pause 3 /doability 5
I can duplicate that exact same thing with a mouse, or keyboard.
Its rather unfair to take some macros out, while others can do it anyways.
Macros are not the same as Bot tools. This is where people get confused at really good tools to save on some mouse clicks. I for one do not want to handle tradeskills over and over with mouse clicks when i can do 5 tries then rehit the key or click to do it again. 1000 clicks to combine some tradeskills is not fun.
If we dont have something like this, hardware, and or 3rd party tools will be used. Since we cant stop it.
Quick update/clarification: When I was talking/posting about overland teleportation I think it may have come across that I meant there wouldn't be any. That is incorrect -- some classes will have some overland teleportation. What I meant, for example, is no PoK books allowing un-restricted hopping around the world willy nilly. There will be restrictions, and some classes will have overland teleportation -- more details to come later.
Pantz said:Criticism:- Enchanter is maybe not the best choice to be the viewpoint class of the stream. All of the "pro" Enchanters in the chat were going crazy because they're used to being so on-point with their mezzes every time and trying to regen mana instead of doing melee combat.
Perhaps in future videos they could just have someone follow the group rather than be in the group?
I already mentioned that I think it looks fantastic. I know a ton will change between now and release so I'm not going to try and get to hyped or bummed about stuff at this point. But things like the audio sounds, skills/damage/spell text feedback, spell buff visual feedback (graphics), limited maps, 6 man groups, character roles are a few things that stand out as great so far!
One thing that stood out to me though is the money. Right now money seems to automatically auto-change up to the highest denomination. For me, in many games I feel not enough value is put into low level currency and that games really just try to push players into getting Gold or Platinum (whatever is the highest value). I apprecaite tabletop RPG's where lower value coin still has worth. In Pantheon, even at level 10 range, copper already seems to be plentiful (thus worthless). I'd like to see all money be hard to get and that only by the level cap at release players really starting to see a couple hundred gold or platinum.
My question is, how is Pantheon going to handle money? Will there be only two types, or will you do like EQ and have 4 types? Are you 100->1 or 10->1 or something different? Any chance you won't auto-change in future releases and make players bank or strategize about how much money to keep due to weight (metagaming, if you have coin weight)?
Aradune said:Quick update/clarification: When I was talking/posting about overland teleportation I think it may have come across that I mean there wouldn't be any. That is incorrect -- some classes will have some overland teleportation. What I meant, for example, is no PoK books allowing un-restricted hopping around the world willy nilly. There will be restrictions, and some classes will have overland teleportation -- more details to come later.
Thanks for that clarification because that's exactly how it came across to me.