Being able to swap gear mid fight would allow a greater deal of control over our item progression. Looking at hotbars, let's assume that there will be scenarios where we won't be able to utilize some of the spells/abilities that we have acquired during our adventures. There will be a point in time where we must decide "I can't use ability X because ability Z is required for this fight." Preparation ... sacrifice ... both have plenty of value. So too, does extensive progression. I think situational gear will be more meaningful if we can choose to use multiple pieces for the same slot during a single fight.
My character has earned a cloak that helps them deal more fire damage while casting spells ... and another cloak that helps them mitigate fire damage. Having to choose the lesser of two evils will essentially create a "meta approach" to how you equip/prepare for combat. The way I look at preparation is this ... seeking out multiple cloaks to help me on a single fight is still a form of preparation. I know they could both help me, so I want to add both of them to my repertoire. If you are limited to using only one, there is much less of an opportunity to "meaningfully prepare" for the fight. It becomes more about "what is the best set-up considering the imposed restrictions" versus "Maybe we should all go to Dungeon X to try and collect item Z that could help us with this fight."
Achieving the optimal gear setup is infinitely easier if you can't swap during combat. Preparation, to me, could be months of farming 30 situational pieces, that when used in conjunction together, can help me beat a fight. Anyway, that is my take on preparation. More of a long term approach where the "ideal" set up is dictated by our overall experiences in the world rather than what is ideal for a single fight. Being able to leverage multiple cloaks on a single fight makes the content associated with earning those cloaks more meaningful. Forcing people to lock in prior to engaging combat feels like a large rail that will directly devalue some of the gear we have acquired. I think our choices in regards to what situational gear we set out to acquire should be more important than which piece makes the most sense for this fight. Long term progression can be a wonderful thing when it comes to our gear.
Per Kilsin, moving discussion over here:
I think that if you are disengaged from an enemy there should be no reason you can't swap items or sit down to swap spells/abilities, even if you have agro. I recall the days of running away from enemies and getting far enough ahead to sit down and mem new spells then turning around to fight them. That's how you managed in EQ with limited options for spells.
Now, doing so I think comes with consequences, like say all of your combat abilities get refreshed/recycled (whatever you call it) so that you can't just keep swapping and getting big attacks in.
bigdogchris said:Per Kilsin, moving discussion over here:
I think that if you are disengaged from an enemy there should be no reason you can't swap items or sit down to swap spells/abilities, even if you have agro. I recall the days of running away from enemies and getting far enough ahead to sit down and mem new spells then turning around to fight them. That's how you managed in EQ with limited options for spells.
Now, doing so I think comes with consequences, like say all of your combat abilities get refreshed/recycled (whatever you call it) so that you can't just keep swapping and getting big attacks in.
As a fan of EQ, I agree with this. But in EQ you could also swap out armor which was kinda cheesy. I did like how (on a pvp server) you could disarm enemy players and the weapon would go into the targets inventory or onto their mouse cursor if their inventory was full. (At first the weapon would drop on the ground if the inventory was full which was quickly fixed). With that being said, having an ability to quickly equip an alternate weapon set would be realistic in combat I think. For example if a warrior was dual wielding and wanted to sheath one weapon and pull their shield off of their back, I would imagine that someone trained to do this would be able to do so in combat... I would even go as far as to allow the warrior and monk to maybe have 3 weapon sets if they happened to have a greatweapon strapped to their back as well (while the monk could switch from barehands, dual wield or 2h). An easy way to balance weapon swaping would be to only allow certain skills to function with certain weapon types (since the real estate for memorized skills will be limited).
I do think that changing spells in combat should be allowed though (assuming changing spells requires sitting and taking the time to "memorize" the spell like in EQ - which got faster as your meditation skill rose, but at low level was quite impossible to do during combat.. maybe have the "fullscreen spellbook" while in combat too. That would certainly deter combat spell swapping, but keep it available just in case).
*My opinion :)
Rint said:One thing that I’m looking forward to in Pantheon is the situational gear, and how the different climates will require us to switch gear depending where we are at or at the very least what we are doing (Fighting mobs, Questing, Trade Skilling…etc…) at any given moment. However, I find it tedious and hoary to have to switch out gear manually one slot at a time, and with all the talk about removing the needless tedious parts of gameplay this would be one of them.
I remember playing Diablo 2 and having the option of wearing 2 sets of gear at the same time but with only one of them being used until you switched over to the other set (this was done by pressing “W” on the keyboard) which was instantaneous. As an example I played a Barb and was loaded up with high DPS gear in which I would lay waste to legions of mobs in seconds, and immediately would switch gear to my Magic Find gear and start using one of my abilities “Find Item” to start finding gear or what-not… And when I was done I would switch back to my fighting gear with a press of a button and be good to go for more battles instantly.
I would like to have perhaps different presets that allowed me to hot-button different armor sets depending on the situation (High Resist Gear, High AC Gear, High DPS Gear, Fast Travel Gear…etc…) but I would be happy to have just 2 as Diablo 2 had in its game.
One thing that bothers me though is I really want the ability to switch out gear any item or armor set while in the middle of a fight. I hate how some games prevent you from switching gear while engaged in a mob, there were many times that I was using low level gear for skill-trading and a mob would sneak-up on me and I didn’t have a weapon or other gear available because I was trade skilling… Please, enable the option to switch gear while engaged in combat…
Rint
Yeah.. Probably not happening.
Once you are engaged, switching out anything will most likely be not allowed.
In Vanguard you could switch between clothing sets, but never during combat.
That is not a function that this group believes to be realistic for their design. At least based on their past creations.
bigdogchris said:Per Kilsin, moving discussion over here:
I think that if you are disengaged from an enemy there should be no reason you can't swap items or sit down to swap spells/abilities, even if you have agro. I recall the days of running away from enemies and getting far enough ahead to sit down and mem new spells then turning around to fight them. That's how you managed in EQ with limited options for spells.
Now, doing so I think comes with consequences, like say all of your combat abilities get refreshed/recycled (whatever you call it) so that you can't just keep swapping and getting big attacks in.
Outrunning mobs in EQ/Vanguard largely only worked if you zoned, or someone else grabbed the aggro. Most mobs would follow you to the zone.
zewtastic said:Outrunning mobs in EQ/Vanguard largely only worked if you zoned, or someone else grabbed the aggro. Most mobs would follow you to the zone.
Outrunning mobs worked all the time in EQ if you had any speed buffs... I think you are thinking of leashing which didn't exist then.
Just no! It should take time to switch into another set of armor and it should cost you with encumberance by bringing multiple outfits.
If they allow you to switch armor during a fight you should lose all ac, defensive abilities such as evade, parry, block etc etc until the process is finished perhaps a minute of real time and every time you get hit it resets the timer!
I thought encumberance was an important feature so you pack an extra set of armor guess you will not have much room for loot from the dungeon perhaps some coin and gems.
Rint said:I remember playing Diablo 2...
I'm not gonna lie. I didn't look through 10 pages. I checked 1 and 10... But that's not how it worked in diablo 2. You were only able to swap weapons with the 2nd set. The rest of your gear remained the same.
My qualifications for this response... played so much diablo 2 that I have a tattoo of a runeword on me....
As many people have said, weapons on combat makes sense. Full on gear does not. And I agree.
Kalgore said:EQ2 had gear macros. You could click and it would remove all gear the second time it would put on the gear in the macro. For a tank this was a go dsend as I could cycle back and forth between gear in seconds..
As for switchihng out in battle I am against that if there are any clicky items in the game. I had a ton of gear that was click activated but had to be equipped if I could quickly put it on click and remove it I could gain a 2k ward or 5k mana and cycle the encounter. Once you pull you should be stuck in the armor you are wearing
This is pretty much my exact opinion on how it should work.
I would preffer if there was no quick item swaping during combat, it will promote to much min-maxing in my opinion.
But if it's part of the game, I would be ok with it, if you could only swapn while no mob was attacking you, and gear had a "cast-time" to equip, so lets say you wanted to switch the chestplate, it would take a 5secs "cast" to switch the item, but if you're attack in the middle it would interreput the equip and you would be left naked.
Weapons are a different case, and having a bandolier that allows some quick weapon swaps it would be cool, but swaping weapon needs to reset the auto-attack timer, or else some cheesy exploity stuff might be possible
I have to say, I hope that they don't have different swapping of item sets within the game. I'm hoping more for a runish type system where you can swap those out to enhance your current armor set as opposed to carrying 5 different armor sets in your inventory, like some games push.
I dislike changing armor in combat. It is unrealistic to think that you can easily take off your pants and shirt while a mob is punching your face.
I also didn't like changing weapons during combat in EQ1. I spent literally *years* swapping my Ancient Prismatic Spear from Sleepers Tomb in and out just for the Avatar buff proc.
I like the idea of sticking to realism. Making a hotbutton to swap your gear out is fine, nobody likes tediously swapping items, but have it take a few seconds and not be available during combat. As for weapons, I supect that we will be able to swap weapons during combat like EQ1, which I wont complain about even though I am still sore about swapping my Ancient Prismatic Spear for all those years.
I have to say I'm loving all this quick switch debate. You lot are such hypocrits. You want buttons to *instantaneously* change gear armour and weapons - but 'OMFG no maps, nooooooo'.
Logic here is laughably topsy turvy. On the one hand it's reasonable, even expected, that someone venturing out into wild and dangeroud unknowns might have a brainwave and keep track of where they've been so they don't get lost. I know I would... - but nope - no maps. never. quitting the game if that's implemented. But then buttons to instantaneously change all your gear... Has no bearing whatsoever in real life, but yep gimme the button koz it's a pain in the arse changing each piece of clothing, you know like I'd have to do in real life. It's absurd.
Where's the immersion? Can you change your clothes instantaneously in real life? This is a game for harcore not newbie... You should absolutely not be able to change gear during a fight - or indeedever, unless maybe it's a 1 minute stationary cast which is interruptable and leaves you wearing nothing. And lose 50% HP, for good measure. After all, this isn't a game for casuals, there should be consequences to your actions.
In addition to this I hope they implement some encumbrance mechanics - the more you're carrying the slower you move and react. add time to spell/ability casts.
Adding a button to instantaneuosly change gear is also a total waste of dev resources. You have gear windows and you can switch each one manually. Honestly, the need for instant gratification from kids nowadays.....
Id be okay with Weapon swaps in combat because that is realistic, Many warriors throughout history carried multipul weapons into battle, I dont know of any that carried Multipul sets of armour though, To me that seems a little Silly, you cant change armour during a fight, Also the same with spells/skills/abilitys The Devs are wanting us to THINK and use our brains to use stratergy and make choises about what armour to wear and what skills/abilitys/spells to equip before your battle, If we are Able to just change Anything we like During combat then there is 0 point in the stratergy focus that the devs are wanting because swaping during combat totally negates that. ( weapon swapping however Is realistic, as i said above, you can carry multipul weapons and swap during combat, just look at our armed forces)
Nanfoodle said: I do like going old school but Pantheon also needs to be modern in everyway possible. Not only does Pantheon need equipment swap but it also needs skill preset options. With only 12 skill slots I would like to switch gear and skills for soloing, teaming at one key stroke. After playing P99 for a while I realize how much I love the game but miss the modern UI and all that comes with that.
Out of combat Sure i Agree, it would remove some of the tedium, but NOT in combat, no no no, that would totally take away from the stratergy focus the Devs have stated they are going for.
Tiberius said:Nanfoodle said: I do like going old school but Pantheon also needs to be modern in everyway possible. Not only does Pantheon need equipment swap but it also needs skill preset options. With only 12 skill slots I would like to switch gear and skills for soloing, teaming at one key stroke. After playing P99 for a while I realize how much I love the game but miss the modern UI and all that comes with that.
Out of combat Sure i Agree, it would remove some of the tedium, but NOT in combat, no no no, that would totally take away from the stratergy focus the Devs have stated they are going for.
Aradune shared a pretty informative post with us on page 7 that you should check out. Here is a quote from the end of it:
"Lastly, restrictions on when and where you can swap gear (particularly in and out of combat) is TBD right now. We want to mess with it in alpha and beta."
oneADseven said:Tiberius said:Nanfoodle said: I do like going old school but Pantheon also needs to be modern in everyway possible. Not only does Pantheon need equipment swap but it also needs skill preset options. With only 12 skill slots I would like to switch gear and skills for soloing, teaming at one key stroke. After playing P99 for a while I realize how much I love the game but miss the modern UI and all that comes with that.
Out of combat Sure i Agree, it would remove some of the tedium, but NOT in combat, no no no, that would totally take away from the stratergy focus the Devs have stated they are going for.
Aradune shared a pretty informative post with us on page 7 that you should check out. Here is a quote from the end of it:
"Lastly, restrictions on when and where you can swap gear (particularly in and out of combat) is TBD right now. We want to mess with it in alpha and beta."
I am aware of the post and have read it, As i said above, I agree with out of combat Swapping Sure, its good to be able to swap out sets quickly.. What i am Against is swapping Sets IN combat I dont like that idea to be honest.
I definitely think macros for gear-set switching should be possible out of combat- these games aren't trying to test your "mouse flick skills"; more your "combat and strategy skills". requiring too much mouse action needlessly ruins any sense of immersion, or connection to the game as you are PAINFULLY aware that you are having to move the mouse for this...AGAIN.
While in combat, I think an interesting idea would be to allow gear-switching, but it has a "channel" time, and different gear requires different channel times. e.g. to swap weapon to sword and shield, or to 2h maybe has a .5 second cast time. Changing cloak, gloves, jewelry or shoulders requires 1.5 second, and chest/legs/boots requires 4 seconds. This would allow for creative gameplay with stun-durations and theory-crafting, but would have extremely limited use.
I've never seen this in a game, but I think that could be really cool
kreed99 said:I personally don't care if it is in combat or out. But with corpse runs being a reality i would like to be able to switch full sets of armor incase i am using a backup set to get my gear back.
I would assume all gear, including what’s in your bags in left on the corpse, right?