You sound like a real city slicker.
Go out to the country and run off the beaten path. See how fast you run. Even in wide open fields, soft dirt or sand and uneven terrain will keep you from ever moving quickly. Maybe you will throw caution to the wind and run fast anyway, but its a good way to break your ankle.
You sound like a real Sims player.
I'll keep this simple. Go outside and cast a spell. Now go slay a dragon. Couldn't huh? This is a game, not real life.
I've already made my case in every post, no one has a counter point to what i said besides "do real life stuff".
Its. A. Game.
Lets talk game mechanics and not real life mechanics, stay on topic.
There is a degree of realism in the games we play. Realism is in large part what will make Pantheon successful. Let me know if you want examples of where you can find abundant realism within Pantheon. There are plenty of mechanics within Pantheon right now which can give players a 'slice of life' moment. I mean no disrespect by this, I'm here to help and conversate.
This goes to everyone.
Please be respectful when responding to others in the forums. If you shame people for sharing their idea's this can cause a lot of discord on the forums, which is more work for our Moderator (Kilsin). I don't want to see any supporters we have for Pantheon be banned due to combative behavior. If your behavior causes people to lose interest in the game (money) due to it's negative community than it would be in Visionary Realms best interest to quash that in some way.
-Todd
Seems like a great idea however from my point of view Its not something I would like to see in this game.
My personal take on this and I apologise if this has been mentioned is that paths should be safer to travel on rather than being faster. If a you have a need to move faster seek out a friendly Druid or Sharman for a Sow or a Druid, Wizard for a TP. This to me encourges player interaction, relationship building and so on which is something I beleive is what VR are trying to bring back. While speed increases on a path would be helpful for players wanting to stay self sufficient for me at least it kinda of moves away from this.
Anyway just my thoughts.
Dullahan said:Moarcrits said:Dullahan said:Moarcrits said:I don't think we should get any bonus to running on the path besides it being safer with less chance to run into mobs. The point of the road is safety not convenience. They want us to go explore and find cool stuff in the world. We shouldn't be encouraged to stick to the path to get from point a to b. Before maps came out in EQ people followed zone walls and discovered faster ways to travel from a to b that wasn't along the road.
You sound like a real city slicker.
Go out to the country and run off the beaten path. See how fast you run. Even in wide open fields, soft dirt or sand and uneven terrain will keep you from ever moving quickly. Maybe you will throw caution to the wind and run fast anyway, but its a good way to break your ankle.
You sound like a real Sims player.
I'll keep this simple. Go outside and cast a spell. Now go slay a dragon. Couldn't huh? This is a game, not real life.
I've already made my case in every post, no one has a counter point to what i said besides "do real life stuff".
Its. A. Game.
Lets talk game mechanics and not real life mechanics, stay on topic.
A lot of the mechanics that make a game or story enjoyable are those that maintain some semblance of reality. Especially in a virtual world, the immersion factor is of some importance.
I'm not at all suggesting that we make travel fast or easy, but there is a solid argument for making travel somewhat faster on roads from both a realism and a gameplay perspective.
Totally agree and see your stand point. Look at it this way. If the point of going faster on roads is to be able to get to where you're going quicker, then why not make the zones smaller? They are going for a grand scale with zones right? So you either make them smaller = faster travel time between a and z, or as you suggest add a run speed boost. Both of which make the world less large because its either literally smaller or feels smaller because you're running faster. Both scenarios negate what VR said they want to accomplish, huge massive areas full of stuff.
You're supposed to feel like you're in a giant world.
Thoughts?
tehtawd said:You sound like a real city slicker.
Go out to the country and run off the beaten path. See how fast you run. Even in wide open fields, soft dirt or sand and uneven terrain will keep you from ever moving quickly. Maybe you will throw caution to the wind and run fast anyway, but its a good way to break your ankle.
You sound like a real Sims player.
I'll keep this simple. Go outside and cast a spell. Now go slay a dragon. Couldn't huh? This is a game, not real life.
I've already made my case in every post, no one has a counter point to what i said besides "do real life stuff".
Its. A. Game.
Lets talk game mechanics and not real life mechanics, stay on topic.
There is a degree of realism in the games we play. Realism is in large part what will make Pantheon successful. Let me know if you want examples of where you can find abundant realism within Pantheon. There are plenty of mechanics within Pantheon right now which can give players a 'slice of life' moment. I mean no disrespect by this, I'm here to help and conversate.
This goes to everyone.
Please be respectful when responding to others in the forums. If you shame people for sharing their idea's this can cause a lot of discord on the forums, which is more work for our Moderator (Kilsin). I don't want to see any supporters we have for Pantheon be banned due to combative behavior. If your behavior causes people to lose interest in the game (money) due to it's negative community than it would be in Visionary Realms best interest to quash that in some way.
-Todd
There's a huge difference between slices of life, and the only rebuttal to what I've said so far is "real life works that way."
Like I said I'm all for discussing ideas, but when you can't come up with a rebuttal that's better than "that's how it is in real life so it should be that way in game" then your argument is completely invalid.
And no this isn't directed at you Todd. It's a general statement, people can't just argue a stand point and not have a logical way to back up their rebuttal. I've backed up mine with facts and scenarios as to why it's a bad idea, the only rebuttal has been "real life".
To me, roads are the tool to get somewhere without getting lost. I would need to see clarification on what you all mean by faster. If you mean roads are at 100% effectiveness of your character pace, with for example grassland at 75%, woods 50% and swamps/jungles 25%, then I would agree with that. I don't think they should allow movement above your normal character pace though (aside from mounts, magic or some otherworldly influence).
I wouldn't mind roads allowing the fastest travel by foot generally, although it would be neat for there to be "shortcuts " also that were more dangerous routes .
There's a huge difference between slices of life, and the only rebuttal to what I've said so far is "real life works that way."
Like I said I'm all for discussing ideas, but when you can't come up with a rebuttal that's better than "that's how it is in real life so it should be that way in game" then your argument is completely invalid.
And no this isn't directed at you Todd. It's a general statement, people can't just argue a stand point and not have a logical way to back up their rebuttal. I've backed up mine with facts and scenarios as to why it's a bad idea, the only rebuttal has been "real life".
Thanks for the response Moarcrits. I think something which would help out is the notion we are competing with opinions. These are opinions, this topic is an idea. Some person can have the opinion of it being a good idea or a bad idea. But when you say you have ‘facts and scenarios’ that are not backed up by anything but opinion of what you know to be true … we are in the same place as everyone else. We are no better.
When you say the argument of ‘real life’ is not a valid argument for rebuttal, it actually IS a valid argument. And a strong one.
Coming up with one counter point example does not defeat the ‘real life’ argument. There is an ‘overwhelming’ amount of realism in these games and the overwhelming amount of examples helps the idea stand on its own.
I appreciate you joining in on this conversation, you bring another necessary side to the topic. I’ll quote Winston Churchill to sum up how I feel about that.
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.
This is how important it is to have you here, what you say is valuable. As you read that quote by Churchill, you thought of it from your point of view did you not? I try my best to use this quote FOR and AGAINST me. It helps with my humility. It’s what usually prevents me from telling somebody they are 100% wrong, because I may be wrong. It also helps me usually not say I am 100% right, because I might be wrong. I try to keep an open mind.
I’ll sum this up with what my Husband just told me.
“In every game we need some level of suspension of disbelief to enjoy it thoroughly. Having little pieces here and there of realism, that link every-day life to what you are experiencing in game, only enriches your immersion with that game.“
I love the guy, so I may be biased, but I think he’s right. It sounds right to me. I’m sure when you believe the ‘real life’ argument to be invalid, that sounds right to you: We can agree we feel the same.
At the end of these conversations it really just boils down to opinion.
Let’s not have a competition of opinion.
-Todd
“In every game we need some level of suspension of disbelief to enjoy it thoroughly. Having little pieces here and there of realism, that link every-day life to what you are experiencing in game, only enriches your immersion with that game.“
BINGO.
There's a requirement that where able we associate the fantasy world with reality. Otherwise we disassociate ourselves from the game world to a point that we cannot really believe in it at any level. When that happens we can't feel the same involvement, the same investement, or the same passion for it. Not to mention that the more places you can impliment real-world mechanics, the more possiblities there are for out-of-the-box problem solving and tactics by the players.
Yes, this all makes the game harder to make and harder to balance. But no great success comes without great challenge. Yes, it presents more of a possibility of exploits, but one man's exploit is another man's emergent behavior. The dev's have actually stated if I recall correctly that they want to see emergent behavior, and exploits can be addressed after the fact where needed.
Reasons to do impliment speed boost on roads :
- Allow those traveling to join groups to do so more quickly.
- Allow those who wish to risk less while simply moving from one city or area to another to do so.
- Allow areas that should have more traffic to appear so with more players traveling there, and areas that should seem more unexplored to be so because people arent just running thru constantly.
Reasons not too:
1) There might be exploits.
2) The world might seem smaller.
Rebuttals:
1) Dont populate mobs near roadways. Give any mob agro'd by someone on a road the same speed boost. Eliminates the kiting exploit mentioned earlier. Or reduce or eliminate the xp gained by killing a mob while the player has the boost to remove the incentive to do so. Or any of another half-dozen possible solutions.
2) This is actually a factor, and why the amount of boost would need to be balanced accordingly. I don't think anyone here is suggesting a 500% bonus. More like. 150%, tops. Just enough to make it worthwhile, but not enough to make travel wholly without risk and without meaning.
Moarcrits said:Totally agree and see your stand point. Look at it this way. If the point of going faster on roads is to be able to get to where you're going quicker, then why not make the zones smaller? They are going for a grand scale with zones right? So you either make them smaller = faster travel time between a and z, or as you suggest add a run speed boost. Both of which make the world less large because its either literally smaller or feels smaller because you're running faster. Both scenarios negate what VR said they want to accomplish, huge massive areas full of stuff.
You're supposed to feel like you're in a giant world.
Thoughts?
First, I could honestly go either way on this. Its not a big deal to me. I've played games with and without increased speed on roads, and enjoyed both. Its all about the design and goals.
If everything off of the road is slower, the world still maintains its largeness, as roads will probably make up around 1% of the terrain of any zone.
I'm not for a second suggesting that roads allow players to outrun mobs. The main purpose of a slight increase in travel speed would be for helping players get to a general area or beyond a zone, and to increase the likelihood of players seeing one another while traveling.
If the goal is to make the world feel as big as possible, you would have to do away with any and all forms of speed enhancements and teleportation. Since both of those things are part of their design (and EQs/VGs design), I don't feel a speed modifier while on roads is much of a stretch.
A 5% increase in movement speed isn't exactly going to lead to "making the world feel smaller" like a 200% speed boost of flight paths in WoW.
Dullahan said:Moarcrits said:Totally agree and see your stand point. Look at it this way. If the point of going faster on roads is to be able to get to where you're going quicker, then why not make the zones smaller? They are going for a grand scale with zones right? So you either make them smaller = faster travel time between a and z, or as you suggest add a run speed boost. Both of which make the world less large because its either literally smaller or feels smaller because you're running faster. Both scenarios negate what VR said they want to accomplish, huge massive areas full of stuff.
You're supposed to feel like you're in a giant world.
Thoughts?
First, I could honestly go either way on this. Its not a big deal to me. I've played games with and without increased speed on roads, and enjoyed both. Its all about the design and goals.
If everything off of the road is slower, the world still maintains its largeness, as roads will probably make up around 1% of the terrain of any zone.
I'm not for a second suggesting that roads allow players to outrun mobs. The main purpose of a slight increase in travel speed would be for helping players get to a general area or beyond a zone, and to increase the likelihood of players seeing one another while traveling.
If the goal is to make the world feel as big as possible, you would have to do away with any and all forms of speed enhancements and teleportation. Since both of those things are part of their design (and EQs/VGs design), I don't feel a speed modifier while on roads is much of a stretch.
A 5% increase in movement speed isn't exactly going to lead to "making the world feel smaller" like a 200% speed boost of flight paths in WoW.
This was posted awhile back in one of Brad's blogs about ports/fast travel:
"We want players to be able to find their friends quickly in Pantheon because this MMO is all about grouping and working together and playing your role effectively as a team player. You'll be able to teleport between the three starting cities with ease, again to facilitate grouping, guilds, and the player community in general. That said, the game is also about exploration and adventure, so don't assume there will be teleports out in the rest of the world. Keeping your group together and replacing one group member with another when the first has to leave will be very doable. Teleporting around the open world so you can avoid danger, not so much."
From that I gather druids and wizards won't be porting in pantheon the way they did in EQ. Unless that's changed which is possible, they have elimiated fast travel except for between the major cities.
To keep with your player interaction by buffing roads, you'll get more interaction by giving a run speed buff like SoW to certain classes for players to get enhanced run speed than you will by just giving the road a buff while being on it.
I'll actively look for SoW from people to get from a to b. I won't stop along my journey from a to b just to chat with someone I ran by on the road. I gotta get where I'm going and he's gotta get to where he's going.
Can we just get into alpha already so we can stop speculating and start testing stuff? Would make these convos so much easier ;)
There may be some porting in game -
Aradune said:
Quick update/clarification: When I was talking/posting about overland teleportation I think it may have come across that I mean there wouldn't be any. That is incorrect -- some classes will have some overland teleportation. What I meant, for example, is no PoK books allowing un-restricted hopping around the world willy nilly. There will be restrictions, and some classes will have overland teleportation -- more details to come later.
Umbra said:There may be some porting in game -
Aradune said:Quick update/clarification: When I was talking/posting about overland teleportation I think it may have come across that I mean there wouldn't be any. That is incorrect -- some classes will have some overland teleportation. What I meant, for example, is no PoK books allowing un-restricted hopping around the world willy nilly. There will be restrictions, and some classes will have overland teleportation -- more details to come later.
From the post-stream thread here.
Excellent, thank you Umbra. Still need to get into alpha hah. I already have some ideas that need testing just from watching the live stream.
omg Moarcrits ...
you just posted something I didn't know about that I REALLY wanted to know.
You'll be able to teleport between the three starting cities with ease, again to facilitate grouping, guilds, and the player community in general.
I was worried about not being able to play with my husband when I play this game. I like the Dwarf race a lot but i'm sure he'll go for something else. Cool, this was good to know. Now I don't have to post anything about starting zones.
-Todd
tehtawd said:omg Moarcrits ...
you just posted something I didn't know about that I REALLY wanted to know.
You'll be able to teleport between the three starting cities with ease, again to facilitate grouping, guilds, and the player community in general.
I was worried about not being able to play with my husband when I play this game. I like the Dwarf race a lot but i'm sure he'll go for something else. Cool, this was good to know. Now I don't have to post anything about starting zones.
-Todd
Im not sure where that quote about the 3 cities was pulled from but that is OLD and I really believe has changed (unless im misreading this thread). It was planned to be that you could teleport around the starting cities but there was a huge uproar over this causing a long nasty thread and several prominent forum members leaving.
Sevens said:tehtawd said:omg Moarcrits ...
you just posted something I didn't know about that I REALLY wanted to know.
You'll be able to teleport between the three starting cities with ease, again to facilitate grouping, guilds, and the player community in general.
I was worried about not being able to play with my husband when I play this game. I like the Dwarf race a lot but i'm sure he'll go for something else. Cool, this was good to know. Now I don't have to post anything about starting zones.
-Todd
Im not sure where that quote about the 3 cities was pulled from but that is OLD and I really believe has changed (unless im misreading this thread). It was planned to be that you could teleport around the starting cities but there was a huge uproar over this causing a long nasty thread and several prominent forum members leaving.
It is very old and we have since stated we will have a starting city for each race, not 3 hub cities for them, so there will be porting to a central hub but from there you will need to travel the rest of the way, there will not be many of these ports at all, just added as needed to remove hours out of the travel time but travel will still be dangerous and meaningful ;)
Thanks Kilsin. This sounds like a good solution.
If/when I roll my Halfling and all my guild/friends decide to play Ogres, I don't want to have to travel 2 hours through a completely unknown map with a character with zero solo capabilities, facing aggressive mobs, just to actually play with them. A middle ground of meeting somewhere together or at least halfway is an excellent idea.
Hello Gentlefolk:
I like the idea of roads and paths, with the mild speed bonus of course. I would like to add a few ideas to the pot. I have worked on many different buildings on Universities where we would build and then before doing the final walkways we would wait one season and then just put down permanent walkways where students had made trails. Taking this into the game PERHAPS raods and trails could develope from where people are naturally running, like along the river in West Karanas (EQ). If a road is getting alot of travel perhaps Inns, villages and guard houses would also spring up..I mean every adventurer needs a waypoint. Sorry to ramble, please to roads and paths, please to places to stop along the way..and please to long open areas of wilderness.
Macmorn
I'm one for not making the game easy, but I'm also one for not making the game needlessly tedious.
I very much like the idea of roads making travel faster, especially if there are limited other methods.
Personally I never liked the hoards of SoW beggars and port beggars etc at every gathering. Wasn't immersive for me. Terrain effecting speed would be. I think it would help socially, too; you would bump into way more people if they weren't all dashing in utterly random directions all the time. There's a reason Inns full of people spring up on crossroads.
