Dullahan said:Krixus said:Dekaden said:adding in rare "evolving items" that level up through 3-5 power levels as you use them would be a welcome addition. We saw this later in EQ.
Too me this has the opposite effect. Now when I get an item I'm less thrilled because I'm not getting the full meal deal. EQ2 had this and to me it was unfulfilling. I wasn't happy to see it scale, I was sad that it had to before I got my real item.
I know what you're saying, but that is kind of going out of your way to look at the glass half empty. I could argue the same thing about getting any item that isn't "the best." [mock sarcasm] "Oh yay, a Gleaming Sword of Slaying. Too bad it isn't as good as Suchandsuch sword of doom."
Scaling doesn't make sense to me. We already have skills that increase as we level that greatly impact our offense and defense. Why suddenly is my breastplate 2 more AC than it was 5 levels ago? My defense went up, that's the skill that indicates my ability to defend myself in combat. Why does the item itself need to change when this mechanic of improvement with experience is already in place? /shrug It's not a big deal but it just seems like a somewhat cheesy mechanic that a game like EQ2 used because they wanted to squeeze more out of loot that didn't have enough value/meaning to the player in the first place.
I played a monk in a long term group and became at one point someone who never tanked for a period of several levels. When I was asked to pick up the role again I was AWFUL because my defense hadn't improved but 1 level's worth in 7-8 levels. Over time my defense increased and I was back up to speed. Why would it make more sense to have my armor improve with levels even though I wasn't tanking anything? My defense was the measure of that, and when I didn't use it I got weak and when I used it again I came back up to strength. A scaling mechanic like we have seen before in other games, is no bueno.
Scaling doesn't make sense to me either, unless there is a reason for it. Like I said, if a magical item is supposed to gain power, or can be upgraded by doing something in particular, than I'm fine with it. I think that sort of thing should definitely be an exception. As Raidan stated, an item you get from an epic type quest that increases in power by some sort of process could be a cool thing. An item that just becomes better for no apparent reason other than "just because", I agree would be stupid.
Dullahan said:Scaling doesn't make sense to me either, unless there is a reason for it. Like I said, if a magical item is supposed to gain power, or can be upgraded by doing something in particular, than I'm fine with it. I think that sort of thing should definitely be an exception. As Raidan stated, an item you get from an epic type quest that increases in power by some sort of process could be a cool thing. An item that just becomes better for no apparent reason other than "just because", I agree would be stupid.
I agree with both of you.
While items will scale down so that a level 10 player getting a hold of a level 25 item doesn't make him too powerful, there are no current plans to scale items up as you level up. While we do want items to mean something and be memorable and we don't plan on having you completely swap out your items every few levels, they're not likely to naturally get more powerful on their own. There may be ways to augment them. Many quests and such will require turning in an old item to receive a newer, more powerful one. A lot of gear is situational, so there won't always be a best weapon for a certain class at a certain level.
As Brad has said a lvl 25 item scaling down to a lvl 10 who has it is fine with me, it will mean that low lvl rares are worth more on the market than trade-able max lvl gear because ( hopefully ) the low lvl rare will be slightly better at low lvl than the max lvl item scaled down.
Not a fan of 99.9% of items in game being able to scale up as you lvl. IE a lvl 10 sword that you just love gets better at 11, and then 12... just because you got stronger. I like getting new gear, its a huge part of my love of RPGs. however, increasing item stats through augs, sounds great, upgrade your Class Epic from a 1.0 to a 1.5 with more epic quests? sure.
Dullahan said:I like the idea of some items scaling if it makes sense. Especially at higher levels it could be a cool thing. There was a quest in an EQ emu (SoD) where a ring you received would absorb the souls of certain monster's you killed avenging the death of the NPC that originally gave you the ring. It would get stronger each time. I thought that was a pretty neat dynamic.
I think there are other situations where items could scale up in different ways. For instance, an epic could become at epic v2. If certain weapons have some sort of story behind them, it might make sense if there was a way to power the item up further or even "charge it up" for lack of a better term. Say, Wand of Giant Slaying could actually become stronger by killing giants.
I like this. Can this also apply to quest items needed for epics via a chain? Pulled this thread up to get some more discussion on gear and weapons without starting another one.
Ox
on the side topic of weapon/item spcial abilities, i wonder if the perception mechanic will include special abilities on weapons and armor. meaning, a player could loot an average looking sword, get the message 'there is something starnge about this sword...' . it could even be tied to crafting perhaps, like a blacksmith would percieve the swords' innate power. of course trial and error may also work, if the player is suddenly doing much more damage vs. giants, or enemies are suddenly taking fire damage etc., they would realize the sword has something extra to it. a quest, or maybe an approprate crafter could still be needed to bring out the items full potential (or at the very least the specific bonus wont be seen on the items description until such happens).
werzul said:
on the side topic of weapon/item spcial abilities, i wonder if the perception mechanic will include special abilities on weapons and armor. meaning, a player could loot an average looking sword, get the message 'there is something starnge about this sword...' . it could even be tied to crafting perhaps, like a blacksmith would percieve the swords' innate power. of course trial and error may also work, if the player is suddenly doing much more damage vs. giants, or enemies are suddenly taking fire damage etc., they would realize the sword has something extra to it. a quest, or maybe an approprate crafter could still be needed to bring out the items full potential (or at the very least the specific bonus wont be seen on the items description until such happens).
I like this, maybe not for just any weapon but I like the idea of certain weapons having latent affects or maybe some secret affects that occur under certain conditions. Maybe a sword could have the latent ability to draw strength from party members increasing its strength. Or maybe it's base damage can increase once you meet a random requirement like using it in conjunction with another piece of gear.
I also like the sound of "living" weapons that you grow by using them to kill a particular type of monster for so many times but I think these are better suited to epic type weapons.
Aradune said:While items will scale down so that a level 10 player getting a hold of a level 25 item doesn't make him too powerful, there are no current plans to scale items up as you level up. While we do want items to mean something and be memorable and we don't plan on having you completely swap out your items every few levels, they're not likely to naturally get more powerful on their own. There may be ways to augment them. Many quests and such will require turning in an old item to receive a newer, more powerful one. A lot of gear is situational, so there won't always be a best weapon for a certain class at a certain level.
I don't understand I must be misunderstanding something, isn't scaling down the same thing as scaling up; it's just a matter of perspective.
geatz said:Aradune said:While items will scale down so that a level 10 player getting a hold of a level 25 item doesn't make him too powerful, there are no current plans to scale items up as you level up. While we do want items to mean something and be memorable and we don't plan on having you completely swap out your items every few levels, they're not likely to naturally get more powerful on their own. There may be ways to augment them. Many quests and such will require turning in an old item to receive a newer, more powerful one. A lot of gear is situational, so there won't always be a best weapon for a certain class at a certain level.
I don't understand I must be misunderstanding something, isn't scaling down the same thing as scaling up; it's just a matter of perspective.
As someone mensioned, EQ had the damage bonus system which wasn't bad and didn't create issues. In general weapons "scaled" by your STR going up as you leveled and the rest of your gear got better. Did INT/WIS do the same thing for spells?
Anyway, as others said, scaling gear is an awful idea. Think about when they added the defiant gear. Basically you had no reason to go after gear while leveling and that hurt the market a good bit. With gear not scaling it gives players a reason to buy and sell gear which especially helps casters since they have a bunch of spells to buy. Not all spells are needed, but it can make life rough to have to carefully choose at each level which ones to get if you aren't making much money along the way. Umbra just talked about twinking, which is a perfect example of non-scaling gear helping lower level players get money. Lower level being defined as players who aren't using max level gear.
Aradune said:While items will scale down so that a level 10 player getting a hold of a level 25 item doesn't make him too powerful, there are no current plans to scale items up as you level up. While we do want items to mean something and be memorable and we don't plan on having you completely swap out your items every few levels, they're not likely to naturally get more powerful on their own. There may be ways to augment them. Many quests and such will require turning in an old item to receive a newer, more powerful one. A lot of gear is situational, so there won't always be a best weapon for a certain class at a certain level.
Nooooo, I want to be able to twink my alts! I hope that at least 'some' items will not scale down...like Pantheon's version of the Fungi :)
I do remember from the steaming or podcast(can't remember which) that it was mentioned there wouldn't be hard level requirements per say, so this is good(as long as I heard it correctly).
So excited to play!!! Go devs go!