starchildren3317 said:Enitzu said:Roenick said:C) While the devs are obviously targeting a specific adudience the game still needs to make money, and if it doesnt we all lose.
This is what a lot of people don't get. They all want their hardcore game but without a player base the game will fail. Sometimes you need to look at what you're willing to give up in order to get what you ultimately want. It's called compromise.
What's to compromise on? You have absolute zero facts to back up your assumption that if VR doesnot compromise on the tenents they set out for the game, that they will fail. This is what I just dont get. You have seen nothing of the game save the 2 hour twitch session and you are already sounding the death Gnoll (like what I did there :) ) unless VR compromises on things. You can't even list what they should compromise on cause you don't yet know the specifics of what the game is delivering. How about folks take a deep breath, keep dreaming of the game they hope that VR is making for them, put forward a little bit of faith, and wait until you can get into Alpha/Beta. Just my 2 cents...
I agree with this. They should be realistic, but they shouldn't be preemptively self defeating.
Roenick said:starchildren3317 said:Enitzu said:Roenick said:C) While the devs are obviously targeting a specific adudience the game still needs to make money, and if it doesnt we all lose.
This is what a lot of people don't get. They all want their hardcore game but without a player base the game will fail. Sometimes you need to look at what you're willing to give up in order to get what you ultimately want. It's called compromise.
What's to compromise on? You have absolute zero facts to back up your assumption that if VR doesnot compromise on the tenents they set out for the game, that they will fail. This is what I just dont get. You have seen nothing of the game save the 2 hour twitch session and you are already sounding the death Gnoll (like what I did there :) ) unless VR compromises on things. You can't even list what they should compromise on cause you don't yet know the specifics of what the game is delivering. How about folks take a deep breath, keep dreaming of the game they hope that VR is making for them, put forward a little bit of faith, and wait until you can get into Alpha/Beta. Just my 2 cents...
Asumming you are talking to Entizu there, but in case you aren't just want to say personally I'm in the Hard(er)core camp.
That said, there are definately drawbacks to making an EQ clone. We tend to look at things with rose-tinted glasses sometimes, and if you're trying to create a game that feels welcoming to newer players some changes will have to be made from that model. My original point had more to do with the team knowing who their audience is, not ostracizing said community members, but also creating something that will bring in enough revenue to sustain the game.
Again, I think we all want close to the same thing: A challenging game that relies on community and where your time feels well spent. Pretty sure the team is all too aware at this stage.
The suggestion that there isn't a population, a fanbase, to support a game like EQ, is not proven in any way shape or form, and in fact many online ecosystems I'm a part of have people clamouring for a traditional mud/virtual world experience. Just like there was a backlash to the traditional difficulty of EQ, there is now a backlash to the cheez ez mode games of the last decade. Why should VR already be catering to people they aren't targeting when there is a potentially HUGE base out there to support them already?
Krixus said:Roenick said:starchildren3317 said:Enitzu said:Roenick said:C) While the devs are obviously targeting a specific adudience the game still needs to make money, and if it doesnt we all lose.
This is what a lot of people don't get. They all want their hardcore game but without a player base the game will fail. Sometimes you need to look at what you're willing to give up in order to get what you ultimately want. It's called compromise.
What's to compromise on? You have absolute zero facts to back up your assumption that if VR doesnot compromise on the tenents they set out for the game, that they will fail. This is what I just dont get. You have seen nothing of the game save the 2 hour twitch session and you are already sounding the death Gnoll (like what I did there :) ) unless VR compromises on things. You can't even list what they should compromise on cause you don't yet know the specifics of what the game is delivering. How about folks take a deep breath, keep dreaming of the game they hope that VR is making for them, put forward a little bit of faith, and wait until you can get into Alpha/Beta. Just my 2 cents...
Asumming you are talking to Entizu there, but in case you aren't just want to say personally I'm in the Hard(er)core camp.
That said, there are definately drawbacks to making an EQ clone. We tend to look at things with rose-tinted glasses sometimes, and if you're trying to create a game that feels welcoming to newer players some changes will have to be made from that model. My original point had more to do with the team knowing who their audience is, not ostracizing said community members, but also creating something that will bring in enough revenue to sustain the game.
Again, I think we all want close to the same thing: A challenging game that relies on community and where your time feels well spent. Pretty sure the team is all too aware at this stage.
The suggestion that there isn't a population, a fanbase, to support a game like EQ, is not proven in any way shape or form, and in fact many online ecosystems I'm a part of have people clamouring for a traditional mud/virtual world experience. Just like there was a backlash to the traditional difficulty of EQ, there is now a backlash to the cheez ez mode games of the last decade. Why should VR already be catering to people they aren't targeting when there is a potentially HUGE base out there to support them already?
Of course. We all are part of those communities and thats why the game is being made :) . In fact we're pretty much saying the same thing. If you go back to my orginal response to the post—which was about splintering the community into two speeds of sever—we're on the same page. The latter point was more about tempering expectations of what players expect and want personally. Because if we're just throwing stuff around theres also no evidence to prove how a "new EQ" would fair in todays market either. :)
Roenick said:Krixus said:Roenick said:starchildren3317 said:Enitzu said:Roenick said:C) While the devs are obviously targeting a specific adudience the game still needs to make money, and if it doesnt we all lose.
This is what a lot of people don't get. They all want their hardcore game but without a player base the game will fail. Sometimes you need to look at what you're willing to give up in order to get what you ultimately want. It's called compromise.
What's to compromise on? You have absolute zero facts to back up your assumption that if VR doesnot compromise on the tenents they set out for the game, that they will fail. This is what I just dont get. You have seen nothing of the game save the 2 hour twitch session and you are already sounding the death Gnoll (like what I did there :) ) unless VR compromises on things. You can't even list what they should compromise on cause you don't yet know the specifics of what the game is delivering. How about folks take a deep breath, keep dreaming of the game they hope that VR is making for them, put forward a little bit of faith, and wait until you can get into Alpha/Beta. Just my 2 cents...
Asumming you are talking to Entizu there, but in case you aren't just want to say personally I'm in the Hard(er)core camp.
That said, there are definately drawbacks to making an EQ clone. We tend to look at things with rose-tinted glasses sometimes, and if you're trying to create a game that feels welcoming to newer players some changes will have to be made from that model. My original point had more to do with the team knowing who their audience is, not ostracizing said community members, but also creating something that will bring in enough revenue to sustain the game.
Again, I think we all want close to the same thing: A challenging game that relies on community and where your time feels well spent. Pretty sure the team is all too aware at this stage.
The suggestion that there isn't a population, a fanbase, to support a game like EQ, is not proven in any way shape or form, and in fact many online ecosystems I'm a part of have people clamouring for a traditional mud/virtual world experience. Just like there was a backlash to the traditional difficulty of EQ, there is now a backlash to the cheez ez mode games of the last decade. Why should VR already be catering to people they aren't targeting when there is a potentially HUGE base out there to support them already?
Of course. We all are part of those communities and thats why the game is being made :) . In fact we're pretty much saying the same thing. If you go back to my orginal response to the post—which was about splintering the community into two speeds of sever—we're on the same page. The latter point was more about tempering expectations of what players expect and want personally. Because if we're just throwing stuff around theres also no evidence to prove how a "new EQ" would fair in todays market either. :)
Word, I feel ya.
This assumption that VR requires a horde of mainstream subscribers to keep the game going for the rest of us is as insulting as it is naive. VR is leveraging existing technology to accomplish more with less; to keep costs under control not only during development but well into Pantheon's growth and maturity phases. It doesn't take that much cash flow to keep a smaller, lightweight team gainfully employed, even in the software/gaming industry.
Besides, Panth is getting some good press and is making its way through all the right circles. It's going to do just fine without "mainstream approved" rulesets or modifications :P
Talv
Even at this stage Pantheon has almost 2K Twitter followers and 12K on Facebook. That's a very good start for a game that hasn't even hit Alpha yet. A lot of online RPG gamers are looking for a place to call home. This game offers them that. We don't even need to hit a million subs to succeed.