After watching the stream, and hearing from some folks that were a bit worried about the consider system telling you how many levels above/below you a certain mob was.(though that may just be because we were watching the developers play, and they're bound to have some different features than us for development purposes.)
EDIT : After thinking it over some more, this is my new suggestion : Have cons tied to a skill, or certain stat like wisdom or intelligence. All considers of any skill level or stat value will show you the mobs general level compared to yours, as usual. But if you have fought with that specific type of mob quite a bit, or are very skilled in consider and/or have high wisdom or intelligence, a con check will reveal certain information about the mob, perhaps what resistances and weaknesses they may have. The higher the skill, the more information is revealed.
What do you guys think?
I think this is an excellent idea. Someone who is wise/intelligent should be more able to accurately assess someone, such as an enemy.
Alternatively, I think it could be tied to experience: the more experience you have fighting a certain mob (say orcs, for example) the more accurately you are able to assess their threat and strengths.
Also, the more similar you are, the more likely you would be to assess a mob. For example, a human could probably more accurately assess the attitude of a humanoid than of a giant worm.
I like your idea, but, it's not fair to warriors, monks etc. if you are a dumb ogre with a 28 Wis thats pulling, you may wipe the group because it conned wrong. Warrior don't want to have to stack wis when they need Str, Dex, Agi etc
they need to swipe EQ1 con system.
blue=1-2 levels below
White = same level
Yellow 1-3 levels above you
Red = 4+ levels above
I noticed during the video the yellows they were pulling were = to a white con in EQ1. it said something like "this is a formidable ..." Yellow in EQ1 would have been "wipe the floor with you"
I'm not sure I would like the system to give back false con. Imagine how off putting to a low level character (low consider skill) it would be to constantly be lied to by the system in place to let them know their chances of survival...I can get behind a system that gives more detailed information as you progress tho.
As for the wis/int thing, I think it should be tied to the class of the monster being conned. If conning a pure melee orc, it would make more sense for a warrior to con it properly than a bookworm wizard. STR would indicate the battle experience of the player warrior when justifying which stats dominate the check.
While i don't dislike the idea in principle, i don't think it's worth the effort. Consider sense heading, forage, etc., many people just mapped or keybound that to other action buttons, or just spammed it in their downtime, there was no difficulty in leveling and i see how there would be no difficulty leveling this since by its own nature it could be safely done from outside of aggro range. If some special feature were added, I would rather see it as a special skill that might give you some clue to a named special ability (if there was one) or a NPCs vulnerability to a certain type of weapon or spell (if it had one).
After thinking it over more, I can see where "mis-conning" could be an issue. So maybe it could only be confused when used on mobs that are quite a bit out of your level range? Ofcourse that would require a few more con colors, but instead of failing a consider and thinking an equal level mob is a red con or vice versa, lower int or wis or con skill consider checks could still be reliable when conning creatures that are within a level or 2 but beyond that it's iffy?
Ofcourse this is just an idea I'm tossing out there, and I'm by no means experienced in building an MMO so the specifics are surely best left to the pros but I thought this would be an interesting feature from an immersion standpoint, it would add a new dimension to what it means to have an intelligent or wise character that can be applied to the world around you and not just your mana pool. It would also give melee characters a reason to build up some intelligence or wisdom, which I think would be cool. I like the idea of each stat being useful in general as opposed to the traditional melees stack str/dex/sta, casters stack wis/int and leaving it at that.
Not a bad idea Happy, but I would prefer to see it simplified (to avoid issues others have been pointing out). I wouldn't have it tied to a stat, but I would make it it's own skill to level up, much like levelling up weapon skills. If you fight a lot of orcs, but was not in an area where ogres were, you'd have a higher /consider skill for orcs, and no skill at all for ogres since you've never fought one. So a /con on the ogre would ONLY give the standard strength color with faction text message. (Yes, I'm a proponent of the EQ /con system.)
Basically, I would only ADD more info as the skill was raised, like the examples you gave: resistant to fire or susceptible to bludgeoning damage. I would also have the option where you could turn off the extra info for players that have fought the same mobs many times and just don't want to see that much every single time.
After reading through this i really must say there are some great ideas.
My view point:
Con - MUST. I don`t want to just run into a fight and mash down the foe and just blame it on gear or dps if it goes south from the get go. I would rather like to have to go in with a tactic after gaining the knowledge of what we as a group might have to deal with and take the fight from their and trial and error until sucessful. This is what bounds people together the time spent trying to figure out how to beat the damn thing ;) If we as a group can just down out right from the start enter an encounter and beat it to death and this then follows through the entire game then why is the combat here diffrent as to other games out there. So i am all for a con system
Skill, only linked to certain classes or races ?
- I would rather let it be something all classes can obtain - i.e through Skill advancement or even quest given maybe
Should it have diffrent values depending on your level or the skill its-self ?
- Yes, why not make it grow with my knowledge.
Should it be miss-leading ?
- I would say i would have to go with the option of "This foe has never been attacked before.."
Should the con give more info the more its skilled ?
- Yes i like that idea and would love to go into more detail as to what it could, should and would reveal.
I like an open-to-all con system. We'll have plenty of things to skill up, and the value this mechanic brings to the game is marginal. Being able to /con in EQ was a huge thing, and this importance seems to be carrying over to Pantheon. Having inaccurate /cons would be frustrating, as would only having accurate cons if its a certain class, or only if you have enough . It's just something I dont think needs to be changed or tweaked much.
Liav said:"Hey guys, let me need on that robe clearly intended for casters so I can use it in my int/wis swap set so I can con mobs properly."
or....invite your caster friend along to help with cons? maybe make the caster friend- and others- to be a part of friends list to invite?
Manouk said:Liav said:"Hey guys, let me need on that robe clearly intended for casters so I can use it in my int/wis swap set so I can con mobs properly."
or....invite your caster friend along to help with cons? maybe make the caster friend- and others- to be a part of friends list to invite?
This is borderline ridiculous. There's class interdependency, and there's this, which is way too much. I'm not going to play a puller in a game where I can't con a darn mob.
Medjai said:I like your idea, but, it's not fair to warriors, monks etc. if you are a dumb ogre with a 28 Wis thats pulling, you may wipe the group because it conned wrong. Warrior don't want to have to stack wis when they need Str, Dex, Agi etc
they need to swipe EQ1 con system.
blue=1-2 levels below
White = same level
Yellow 1-3 levels above you
Red = 4+ levels above
I noticed during the video the yellows they were pulling were = to a white con in EQ1. it said something like "this is a formidable ..." Yellow in EQ1 would have been "wipe the floor with you"
Agreed
I was actually thinking along the same lines.
I understand why people would be annoyed with constantly having to con everything, but I think it's important part of the game. If the con color showed in the mob's tag above its head, for example, running into a new area and encountering new mobs would lose a lot of the mystery a conning system creates.
It can be tiresome, though, to have to recon mobs you've checked before if there was no obvious indicator for a mob your character has experienced.
I believe it would be fun to have a system that simulates the experience one goes through when studying an opponent while tying it into the gameplay well enough that it does not feel like a bother.
I think conning should be based on a skill as you suggested. The higher your skill level, the more information you get. I also think that after you've conned a certain mob successfully, all other identical mobs should then have the con color in the tag. This would allow a player to keep track of mobs they are familiar with (and the ones they have not conned before), encourages the player to use the skill by tying it to some essential utility, and even provides neat benefits for those who take the time and effort to max out the skill.
That's a really cool idea Absolem, pretty much make the basic con just show the usual colors so it wouldn't really screw anyone up. But if you have learned alot about a mob or have high skill or related stats or what have you, you'd be able to get some pretty useful info about the mob's strengths and weaknesses.
I actually like the OP's idea. In the sense that it is a new world. Immersively, it makes sense. Who knows what level those Orc's or Troll's are. If you are in the area you should be in for your area it should not be an issue. I think that he / she is onto something with it.
Remember the BANE AA in EQ? Where you kill so much of that monster you can click BANE now... If you fight something enough you should be able to learn its strengths and weaknesses, hence judging how much of a baddie it is. Thus by constantly fighting a type of mob you learn its ability ranges.
Even the false conning would add a level of depth. Why is a warrior pulling anyway? Most puller classes should have a fair amount of WIS or INT to be able to con properly.
Oh, but I am a Warrior and want to solo. Well, better hope that mob you picked is not a death machine.
Love the idea and would definitely vote for it! I would ditch the failed con attempts, though just stating the char doesn't have enough knowledge about said enemy to judge it would be fine.
I personally believe anyone looking for a similar experience to D&D/EQ would be for this idea.