It's not theorycrafting so much as "let's auto attack a dummy unattended for X hours to accurately determine the % of crit chance Dexterity gives you and if it has any diminishing returns or a cap".
I don't know. I agree that all of the things you listed are positives, it's just that the methodology required to pin down all of the stuff is really obnoxious. Not to mention that websites where the information gets posted may die and suddenly everything is up in the air again. Some of that stuff should just be available somewhere from an official source, and immortalized.
I also have had bad experiences with people being able to see my gear and giving snide comments about it, but that said it would be nice if there was a toggle for allowing others to inspect my avatar and see everything i can see when i inspect myself, also maybe like in eq a box where you can write stuff someone sees while inspecting you. it would be a great help for getting/giving gearing advice to guildmates without having to link all the gear in chat or put up screenies on the guild forums.
one of my worst experiences with this is in SWTOR i was looking for a group to do hardmode instances and someone checked my gear on my Consular (healer) and told me that i was an idiot for speccing crit chance and crit power when i should have specced with direct power increase. I mean its a friggin preference.
Gawd said:one of my worst experiences with this is in SWTOR i was looking for a group to do hardmode instances and someone checked my gear on my Consular (healer) and told me that i was an idiot for speccing crit chance and crit power when i should have specced with direct power increase. I mean its a friggin preference.
Ehhhh, not really a preference.
Some things are just objectively better. It is what it is, though. Not worth being a dick over.
I am not about gear score or any other means that can be "measured" by someone else. Otherwise, it will turn the game into one direction and open the door to other's being openly rude or opinionated. Not that it matters, but I will not play any game that has this style, this would include Pantheon.
I would much rather have theory crafting talked about based on different playstles or results, and if someone is good, it is because their reputation and gameplay of their character has impacted others. I get the impression that Pantheon will not be about BiS gear, rather, doing the correct things or having the correct skills / items at the right times for specific encounters. This I look very forward to....
Pyye said:I am not about gear score or any other means that can be "measured" by someone else. Otherwise, it will turn the game into one direction and open the door to other's being openly rude or opinionated. Not that it matters, but I will not play any game that has this style, this would include Pantheon.
I would much rather have theory crafting talked about based on different playstles or results, and if someone is good, it is because their reputation and gameplay of their character has impacted others. I get the impression that Pantheon will not be about BiS gear, rather, doing the correct things or having the correct skills / items at the right times for specific encounters. This I look very forward to....
I kind of hinted this in a couple of the other threads. BiS might not be nearly as important as best you have available for Y atmosphere at the time. So even if you have other gear that is better for your class. You might have to "dress for the weather". Im fully prepared for this to be the case (situational gear). But this kind of touches on a different subject so I save this for another discussion.
You're misunderstanding best in slot.
Best in slot just means "best possible equipment piece in game for that slot for this situation". Situational gear won't eliminate the concept of best in slot, you'll just have more best in slot pieces to swap out situationally at best.
If i may.. you (plural) have at long last, albeit oh so predictably, lol, merged two different concepts.
- Seeing what gear i wear so that a stranger can know if they should even invite me for something serious or not, is O.K. And frankly, understandable. Especially if we do get anything like the old camping paradigm in place. It's bad enough, and it happens to all of us, getting past the familiarity factor. Have i or have i not done this before, etc. There's no need for wasted hours simply because someone who knows is undergeared went on and /applied anyway, just because he "wanted" to. (Personally, i kinda wish we didn't even have /inspect, as trust would become a factor, and as such community would become a factor, but anyway, logic is logic).
- Elitism, e-peenism, snobism and related mental diseases (which by the way are a disgrace to see evident in people above 30 and 40 ok? Just as a side note) are a different matter altogether. While the two can lapse at times, they do no go hand in hand.
Do not confuse the practicality of the former with the mentality behind the latter.
Worry if we get achievements (link """ach""" or gtfo, that vicious circle of catch 22), worry if they allow for damage meters, worry if their tooltips are not concise/clear enough (ie encouraging spreadsheets), worry if they turn a blind eye/pat guilds whose behaviour is at best ..questionable.. because hey, they got world firsts. So again, two different concepts here. Don't blame the tool. As long as nobody cares to change the sequence of contract pixel fever -> find group -> get carrot -> spread pixel fever, there will be SOME need for 'a' tool that helps people know who's who, so to speak.
Liav said:You're misunderstanding best in slot.
Best in slot just means "best possible equipment piece in game for that slot for this situation". Situational gear won't eliminate the concept of best in slot, you'll just have more best in slot pieces to swap out situationally at best.
Nope Im not. BiS is BiS in most games. You have THE best overall stats for your class with a particular dev created or individually put together set of gear. This is how almost anyone I ask would think of this concept. And to re-define it as BiS for a situation is wrong. Thats just plain old situational gear. Now I do realize that in some older games BiS either didnt exist or wasnt a concern, because of the design of the game. But to answer your question: Situational gear and the rarity of top end gear will greatly reduce availability of BiS greatly.
Amsai said:Nope Im not. BiS is BiS in most games. You have THE best overall stats for your class with a particular dev created or individually put together set of gear. This is how almost anyone I ask would think of this concept. And to re-define it as BiS for a situation is wrong. Thats just plain old situational gear. Now I do realize that in some older games BiS either didnt exist or wasnt a concern, because of the design of the game. But to answer your question: Situational gear and the rarity of top end gear will greatly reduce availability of BiS greatly.
That's the most ridiculous definition of best in slot I've ever heard. It literally means "best item in this slot", there is no ambiguity there.
This is just semantics and it doesn't change the core of my argument anyway, that there will always be a best possible piece for a given situation. I don't do semantics, so have fun with that.
Liav said:Amsai said:Nope Im not. BiS is BiS in most games. You have THE best overall stats for your class with a particular dev created or individually put together set of gear. This is how almost anyone I ask would think of this concept. And to re-define it as BiS for a situation is wrong. Thats just plain old situational gear. Now I do realize that in some older games BiS either didnt exist or wasnt a concern, because of the design of the game. But to answer your question: Situational gear and the rarity of top end gear will greatly reduce availability of BiS greatly.
That's the most ridiculous definition of best in slot I've ever heard. It literally means "best item in this slot", there is no ambiguity there.
This is just semantics and it doesn't change the core of my argument anyway, that there will always be a best possible piece for a given situation. I don't do semantics, so have fun with that.
Come on man, Im just having a discussion with you. So could you tone it down a notch.
Also how can you not see you just approved what I said with the bold part? BiS is BiS. But more importantly it does change the argument. Its not so much that I dont realize what you are saying. Becasue I saw it in XI. And is the only game I can think of that had BiS for situtaions to such a huge degree. Hell the game was founded on the idea only it wasnt about atmospheres. It was about min/max gear swapping of 2-9 sets of gear mid combat (haste to evasion to damage to minus enmity to accuracy to whatever as the need arises). But MOST people due largely to WoW and the homoginazation of stats and streamlining of gear would agree BiS is simply BiS from the latest content. Most MMO players cant even imagine the concept of situational gear, let alone having to forego their precious epics! So Ill use a made up scenario by way of example.
Lets say Pantheon Launches with 1 high end dungeon mob and 2 high end raids (keeping it simple). So you get all the gear you need from the dungeon and now have just below the best gear in the game for your class. Now you are ready to raid. Well before doing the raid you dont have raid gear but you have respectable gear from that dungeon, but definitely not BiS. I get the impression that with a lot of competitive content and with rare drop rates it might be quite a while before you can have all the BiS pieces from raid A (possibly years) if ever. But lets assume you are the number 1 Guild on the server and get all your riad gear from Raid A in 1 year. Now your guild starts to focus on Raid B. Now all the gear you got from raid A has the best overall stats i the game, but it has one major weakness: greatly reduces resistance to ice damage. And Raid B is an Ice dragon in an Ice Cave. Based on this information, your best alternative for the situation is to break that Dungeon gear out of retirement, because that gear from Raid A is more harm than good at this point. Your having to fall back on old gear, because your BiS gear cant help you. You dont even have the best situational gear. Though you will slowly remedy that as you get pieces from the Ice Dragon that have stats slightly less than gear from Raid A, but is overall better situationally.
This is what I mean. There will be times when you wont even have BiS for the situation. Sure you might have the BiS for a Fire Named situation, but not for the Ice Dragon. At best you will have something that is passable for the situation. Especially if there are to be many atmospheres and it takes a long time to collect gear sets to help out in these situations.
Liav said:I don't really see how any of this is relevant to the topic, anyway, so maybe you should just make a new thread and we'll discuss it there.
Well I cant argue with that. So Ill drop it. If someone else makes the thread Ill contribute though. Sorry for derailing the thread.
SO I think it's safe to say that the majority don't want to see extra stats hahahahaha.
Maybe an offsite LEGIT synced up magelo type set up is what would work. Like something that doesn't require an extra program, but it's just an check box you can tick.
Didn't think I would cause such a fuss! Sorry to the admins :( this was not my intention at all!
Deadlyfury said:SO I think it's safe to say that the majority don't want to see extra stats hahahahaha.
Maybe an offsite LEGIT synced up magelo type set up is what would work. Like something that doesn't require an extra program, but it's just an check box you can tick.
Didn't think I would cause such a fuss! Sorry to the admins :( this was not my intention at all!
I don't think a few posts on a forum is honestly representative of anything significant except individual opinions.
Amsai said:Liav said:You're misunderstanding best in slot.
Best in slot just means "best possible equipment piece in game for that slot for this situation". Situational gear won't eliminate the concept of best in slot, you'll just have more best in slot pieces to swap out situationally at best.
Nope Im not. BiS is BiS in most games. You have THE best overall stats for your class with a particular dev created or individually put together set of gear. This is how almost anyone I ask would think of this concept. And to re-define it as BiS for a situation is wrong. Thats just plain old situational gear. Now I do realize that in some older games BiS either didnt exist or wasnt a concern, because of the design of the game. But to answer your question: Situational gear and the rarity of top end gear will greatly reduce availability of BiS greatly.
In EQ2 I had several pieces of the same slot all considered BIS. It was dependent on the raid mob i wasattacing that night. I had 4 different shields as well. If you dont think you can have several different BIS you most likely failed at high level raiding.