Just cruious on the following:
1. has it been mentioned what stats of other players we will be able to see? (i.e Health (obviously...), Mana, Stamnia/Endurence (or whatever it will be called) etc.
2. What would YOU like to see (even if it's just the big top 3)
Now, to answer my own question :)
I would like a bit of a happy medium, it would be cool to see figures (i.e 500/1500 Health), so you can sort of know as a tank how much mana your cleric will have, or as a cleric, what the approriate time to heal would be, I am unsure if i would like to see EXP or other stats such as wisdom etc...
What are your thoughts :)
Krixus said:What does it matter how much INT a wizard has or AC a warrior has? Are they cool people? Do they play their class well? Do you like grouping with them? Those things can be answered without knowing anything about their stats.
This is a bit of a red herring and has absolutely nothing to do with the question asked.
I'd rather see the resources for other players, i.e. health, mana. I don't believe its necessary to see anything else, if I am curious as to how much str or wis your character has I'll just ask. I'd like mana to be shown so as to not have to ask every 5min for a "mana check". Don't really have a preference to whether it shows theses resources as a percentage or a numerical value, either will work for me.
Krixus said:What does it matter how much INT a wizard has or AC a warrior has? Are they cool people? Do they play their class well? Do you like grouping with them? Those things can be answered without knowing anything about their stats.
Agree with this.
I would prefer to see nothing as I would like the game to be a mystery. I don't look at someone's stats to know if I want to group with them or not. From my personal experience anyone I have met that does was an elitist asshole in my opinion and made the game less fun and more a job. Though are the people I would like try to avoid if possible.
Kalthir said:I'd rather see the resources for other players, i.e. health, mana. I don't believe its necessary to see anything else, if I am curious as to how much str or wis your character has I'll just ask. I'd like mana to be shown so as to not have to ask every 5min for a "mana check". Don't really have a preference to whether it shows theses resources as a percentage or a numerical value, either will work for me.
Agreed health/mana/stam pets health etc.
I'm a curious person, I'd like to be able to see all of the information that I would be able to see about myself via inspect. However I have no real issue if there is also a "Private" option for people that wish to hide their stats.
Deadlyfury said: I agree Liav but I will respond anyway :P @Krixus That was put in there to negate the need for things like magelo etc. Here is a use case I can see Top tier raiding guild has gear/Stat requirements, you must have X Wis Y Strength and min XX resists to join or raid a particular target. This makes it easy to check that :) It's not about boasting or excluding (well not for the reasonsame you are talking about anyway)
You should be able to look at a character and know mostly what they're wearing. Worst case you inspect them. The fewer things, that we can figure out on our own, that aren't spelled out for us, the better.
Krixus said:Deadlyfury said: I agree Liav but I will respond anyway :P @Krixus That was put in there to negate the need for things like magelo etc. Here is a use case I can see Top tier raiding guild has gear/Stat requirements, you must have X Wis Y Strength and min XX resists to join or raid a particular target. This makes it easy to check that :) It's not about boasting or excluding (well not for the reasonsame you are talking about anyway)
You should be able to look at a character and know mostly what they're wearing. Worst case you inspect them. The fewer things, that we can figure out on our own, that aren't spelled out for us, the better.
I usually would agree, but this really isn't one of those "keep it classic" type of figure it out on your own type of things, I understand the exclusion thing, and i would hate for people to use it for that, but they would find a reason anyway.
I just think it's one of those quality of life things that wouldn't hurt gameplay, and it certainly wouldn't hinder social interaction, if it was me, I would inspect and then be like "wow man how did you get so much HP/Mana?"
And there are a lot of things that probably won't be able to be seen, for example almost all resist gear in EQ was jewlery, and not always worn, and it was very easy to fake and just say "yeah yeah i have 250 Fire resist, which as a high end raid guild can mean big trouble, I just think an option like this would stop all that.
But hey, we are only discussing opinions :) and i respect yours
Not a big deal for me tbh, ive honestly never found a reason to check anyones stats. However I thought this game wanted to stay away from the hyper judgemental, min-maxed addiction, instant gratification, 1-death ragequit, style of gameplay environment MMOs have become over the last decade. Not sure giving those type of players the tools to do just that is the best idea.
If I am healing a tank in a group setting I like to know their stats and will often ask them If I can't just see them. Knowing their AC (if they are mitigation tank), HP for a bruiser tank and dodge/parry for say a monk tank lets me know whether or not I have to use my big mana inefficient spells, or can use my smaller mana efficient heals. Yes I can do this through trial and error, wasting mana, or not healing the tank enough but it is nice to know it ahead of time and be prepared.
Garmr said:Deadlyfury said: Top tier raiding guild has gear/Stat requirements, you must have X Wis Y Strength and min XX resists to join or raid a particular target. This makes it easy to check that :)
THIS
Is whats wrong with most MMOs and the people playing them these days.
Please explain this comment. Guilds have been doing this since the start of raiding in an MMO. What is wrong with it. If you had a zone that had lvl 50 mobs would you bring a lvl 5 just because?? Raids are made up of dozens of people that expect to kill mobs having a few weak links could be the key to failing or not.
Kayo said:Not a big deal for me tbh, ive honestly never found a reason to check anyones stats. However I thought this game wanted to stay away from the hyper judgemental, min-maxed addiction, instant gratification, 1-death ragequit, style of gameplay environment MMOs have become over the last decade. Not sure giving those type of players the tools to do just that is the best idea.
You use a lot of adjectives in one sentence that have nothing to do with each other:
Hyper Judgemental - You are always going to get those people in an MMO. There is no design feature that will get rid of this. Where has VR or Brad ever said they where staying away from this?
Min-Maxed Addiction - Any MMO will have stats, if you have stats you will have people finding out the best stats for a given situation and will go with that. No design feature can get rid of this if you want to keep people unique (i.e drop all stats and then there is no min/max but then everyone is the exact same..). Once again where has VR or Brad say they are against Min/Maxers and are designing a game against this?
Instant Gratification - Yes this is talked about and is being avoided. That being said there are still plenty of people that will play this game that will find the easiest path to their goals and go with that no way to really limit this if it is what someone wants to do.
1-Death Ragequit - Once again while designs are being made to make death sting you will always have those people that fell the fight is to hard, or their group is a bunch of idiots, and leave after the first death. Nothing VR/Brad have said they will do about that nor can they really.
So I ask you where did "the game" ever say " wanted to stay away from the hyper judgemental, min-maxed addiction, instant gratification, 1-death ragequit, style of gameplay environment MMOs have become over the last decade."
Kayo said:Not a big deal for me tbh, ive honestly never found a reason to check anyones stats. However I thought this game wanted to stay away from the hyper judgemental, min-maxed addiction, instant gratification, 1-death ragequit, style of gameplay environment MMOs have become over the last decade. Not sure giving those type of players the tools to do just that is the best idea.
This game wants to be what old school MMO players want that means Stat inspection max gear hard core groups and raiding. When the game gets to the point where gear is just blah and doesnt really matter you hit instant gratification.
Kalgore said:Garmr said:Deadlyfury said: Top tier raiding guild has gear/Stat requirements, you must have X Wis Y Strength and min XX resists to join or raid a particular target. This makes it easy to check that :)
THIS
Is whats wrong with most MMOs and the people playing them these days.
Please explain this comment. Guilds have been doing this since the start of raiding in an MMO. What is wrong with it. If you had a zone that had lvl 50 mobs would you bring a lvl 5 just because?? Raids are made up of dozens of people that expect to kill mobs having a few weak links could be the key to failing or not.
Nothing wrong with wanting to make sure people have the right gear for raids etc. I understand it fully having been in top tier raiding guilds as the raid tank. What I have an issue with is gearscore bullshit that turns players into numbers. Theres a difference between folks talking gear options, upgrade paths etc to get to raiding and someone looking at a number and saying "**** you to low lulz". Gearscore/open stats or whatever you like to call it, promotes the later.
Also, bring a lvl 5 to a 50 raid is nonsense, I would and have brought 55's to 60 raids and similar, knowing there were undergeared. Gave them a chance to learn the raid and realize what they needed gear wise/lvl wise and motivates them. Of course this was before there were ridiculous caps on raids. 24 ******* ppl to a raid? **** that, thats a big group, not a raid.
Man, this one is really, really tough to answer. On one hand, I love walking into a group of avatars that I know already and just start playing. I don’t need to inspect them, because I already generally know how and how well they play. Stats don’t mean that much to me if a player can pull off what’s expected of him/her – even the most over-geared chump can ruin a group. On the other hand (and I’m often on this end as well) after playing a few encounters with someone I might find my interest piqued: what the heck is that sword? Is this guy’s armor broken? Why isn’t “Lightning Joe” doing more damage? It’s in these situations that the “I need to look at this guy’s gear” mentality starts to kick in.
In the end, I think it’s about how much you can trust the other player to pull his/her own weight.
Garmr said:Kalgore said:Garmr said:Deadlyfury said: Top tier raiding guild has gear/Stat requirements, you must have X Wis Y Strength and min XX resists to join or raid a particular target. This makes it easy to check that :)
THIS
Is whats wrong with most MMOs and the people playing them these days.
Please explain this comment. Guilds have been doing this since the start of raiding in an MMO. What is wrong with it. If you had a zone that had lvl 50 mobs would you bring a lvl 5 just because?? Raids are made up of dozens of people that expect to kill mobs having a few weak links could be the key to failing or not.
Nothing wrong with wanting to make sure people have the right gear for raids etc. I understand it fully having been in top tier raiding guilds as the raid tank. What I have an issue with is gearscore bullshit that turns players into numbers. Theres a difference between folks talking gear options, upgrade paths etc to get to raiding and someone looking at a number and saying "**** you to low lulz". Gearscore/open stats or whatever you like to call it, promotes the later.
No, Poor communities and lazy people promote this. Guild/Raid leaders that want the beast people will be doing their job and making sure they get the best people regardless of gearscore.
Deadlyfury said:Krixus said:Deadlyfury said: I agree Liav but I will respond anyway :P @Krixus That was put in there to negate the need for things like magelo etc. Here is a use case I can see Top tier raiding guild has gear/Stat requirements, you must have X Wis Y Strength and min XX resists to join or raid a particular target. This makes it easy to check that :) It's not about boasting or excluding (well not for the reasonsame you are talking about anyway)
You should be able to look at a character and know mostly what they're wearing. Worst case you inspect them. The fewer things, that we can figure out on our own, that aren't spelled out for us, the better.
I usually would agree, but this really isn't one of those "keep it classic" type of figure it out on your own type of things, I understand the exclusion thing, and i would hate for people to use it for that, but they would find a reason anyway.
I just think it's one of those quality of life things that wouldn't hurt gameplay, and it certainly wouldn't hinder social interaction, if it was me, I would inspect and then be like "wow man how did you get so much HP/Mana?"
And there are a lot of things that probably won't be able to be seen, for example almost all resist gear in EQ was jewlery, and not always worn, and it was very easy to fake and just say "yeah yeah i have 250 Fire resist, which as a high end raid guild can mean big trouble, I just think an option like this would stop all that.
But hey, we are only discussing opinions :) and i respect yours
How exactly does knowing someone's exact stats improve your quality of game life? I just don't see what this adds that you can't gain from playing and knowing the game. At one point in my main EQ group I stopped tanking at all and never soloed so my defense didn't increase for 6 levels, and one day when our main tank was lagging out I took over and was getting abnormally creamed. Nobody needed to know my stats to see and feel the difference. And once I had main tanked for a couple days, my defense skill was back to 100% and we were full go again.
We do not need explicit details on things we can see and feel for ourselves.
Liav said:Krixus said:What does it matter how much INT a wizard has or AC a warrior has? Are they cool people? Do they play their class well? Do you like grouping with them? Those things can be answered without knowing anything about their stats.
This is a bit of a red herring and has absolutely nothing to do with the question asked.
Of course it does. The question asked was what stats do we want to see and Krixus replied with examples of stats he does NOT want to see. Pretty clear connection there.
And I agree with Krixus. Don't expose most stats. Play with someone before pre-judging them.
Garmr said:Deadlyfury said: Top tier raiding guild has gear/Stat requirements, you must have X Wis Y Strength and min XX resists to join or raid a particular target. This makes it easy to check that :)
THIS
Is whats wrong with most MMOs and the people playing them these days.
I would say that the raiding scene is their own niche of gamers and honestly I would be happy without them. I'm not saying I don't like raiding, however raiding was never even a thing when these games started. There were just things that couldn't be taken down with just one group so people grouped up together to take it down. Now there are planned raid targets and I think that's the wrong way to look at it. I think there should just be content and people choose how they face it if they can even face it at all.
It used to be just friends exploring and fighting together. Now it's turned into zerg to max level and zerg content and then complain there is no content.
Aena said:And I agree with Krixus. Don't expose most stats. Play with someone before pre-judging them.
Agreed! Elitist in my opinion offer nothing to the community and that's an elitist attitude. You will know if they are good or not just by playing with them. Heck they might not even be the best, however they are fun to be around and talk to and that will be enough for most people.