What if the log only logged relevant keywords and sentences instead of everything the NPC said? Would just be basically like taking notes.
I just want to avoid as much writing as possible as my right hand is damaged so writing is difficult for me. Just finding a comfortable mouse is hard enough.
One limiting factor is a design decision of whether quest items can drop for a person if they are not on the quest or only drops if they are on the quest. The advantage of having it drop if you are on a quest is that you can individualize the drop chance, let multiple people complete a quest step at the same time, etc. However this could go counter the social design aspects of the game.
That said my personal opinion is as follows:
1) Basic every day quests
You need to talk to the NPCs to discover the quests and no log is needed or required. If you have 4 rat pelts and are ready to turn in you can do it right away. Your crushbone belts quest requires your knowledge or exploration to find the way to complete it.
2) Hug lore quests (Epic/Heritage/etc)
You have discovered the quest through social information or your own discovery. You do not get verbatim details of the quest dialogue, a location of where to go, or any kind of mini map icons. The quest log would contain basic information of what you have done and instructions you have received.
Example of Cleric Epic Quest in EQ
Dialogue you receive in person when you complete a stage:
Natasha Whitewater says 'I will have this crown returned to the Riptide Goblins immediately! Should you ever come across an Erudite named Omat Vastsea, give him this sea shell. The waters of Norrath shimmer with awareness of your deeds here today!'
Quest Entry in your Log:
(NPC: Natasha Whitewater)
Obtain Ripttide Goblin King Crown 1/1
Show Omat Vastsea an Ornate Sea Shell - Active
It would tell you who to go back to in order to get the full details, but no details in the log of where to find them.
Further detailing the next step better illustrates this:
Omat Vastsea says 'So, you are a friend of Natasha's? That is good to see. She is a very wise and gifted woman. The Riptide goblins have adopted a new king but are still in a vulnerable state until his subjects accept his rule. The Plasmatic Priesthood is aware of the weakened state of the Riptides and has convinced the Fire Peak goblins to strike against them. Although I do not agree with the mannerisms or actions of any goblin clan, such a war would be detrimental to all who are caught in its path. Lord Gimblox of the Fire Peak clan has been meeting with a member of the Plasmatic Priesthood in the Temple of Solusek Ro. Locate the Plasmatic Priest, hand him this statue to hinder his powers, then eliminate him and bring me his robe.'
Quest Entry:
(NPC: Omat Vastsea)
Obtain Riptide Goblin King Crown 1/1
Show Omat Vastsea an Ornate Sea Shell 1/1
Obtain Blood Soake Plasmatic Roabe - Active
There is nothing in the quest log saying you need to go to the Temple of Solusek Ro, hand him a statue, and then kill him. However if you are lost you can go back to the NPC and get the instructions again. If the instructions from the NPC was less detailed since that quest step is intentionally less descript you can still only have the end goal (Cleanse the corrupted item) that way you can be mindful of the quest dialogue you might want to trigger when talking to random NPCs. "Hail xxxx, do you happen to know how to cleanse corruption?"
This would really only be applicable for those long class/character defining quests, stretch over the play time of the game/expansion, or be heavily lore dependant that make them matter.
I'm very curious as to how this will be implemented as well. I personally enjoyed having to write down details on a notepad, but it did feel sort of immersion-breaking. I think an in-game notepad should suffice. I like having to read through all of the quest dialogue. I would assume those who don't enjoy reading the quest dialogue and having to write important notes themselves are part of the min-max, race to max level crowd, which there is nothing wrong with necessarily. This demographic of players exists in all games.
This does remind me of a thread elsewhere where we were discussing reputation and another on quests/logs.
---- My Journal ---- (I create some bookmarks)
Character Bookmark (Notes on myself, back-history etc):
This is the Journal of Evoras, a Summoner who trained under Sinistra of Frostfell in the stardate year 1476 FA. Epic progress (Step 0 of 132): Still looking for the starter NPC.
Explorer's Log Bookmark (Notes on the route taken, interesting things I see) :
Perhaps an odd plaque on a tomb I screenshot and annotate. They are date stamped and written in the journal with my nice cursive script. I include bawdy limericks about people I meet, too. None are very good ... indeed they are very, very bad. It might include a screenshot of a nearby peak, and the castle on top of it. Perhaps I annotate it with a few details about animals I see about, or hear - e.g. the noise of (were)wolves.
Mercenaries Bookmark (Notes on people I have dealt with):
QENDIL the Crusader was hired to get me across the Fire Swamp for 5 platinum. He refused all but 10 gold to cover food and whet-stones. We encountered many, many ROUS, including a sentient head-rat which we slew, obtaining its odd-looking pelt. I insisted he take the skin for its fire protective properties. He gave me 10 plat for it, saying it was very rare. I took the money to pay for my ever more expensive spells.
MELEK the Rogue agreed to show me the secret way to the Burned Woods for 5 plat. Unfortunately he got disconnected almost immediately. I never saw him again, but have heard from others he is not to be trusted.
Adventurers Bookmarks (Notes on players, both good and bad):
KILSIN: Rogue 12 - good in combat but never let him pull. Ever.
SMEGHEAD: Dwarf Cavalier Level-3 - think he is a commie.
Quests Bookmark (Notes on quests):
Simple functionality to allow you to cut-paste the last 10-12 lines of text here. Add a heading for the NPC's name, where I found him and other details I may find important. Perhaps note my faction to him - whether there are any KOS mobs nearby etc. Maybe adding a snapshot of the NPC, or the local area I found him - in case he wanders.
-In Conclusion-
So, the idea is to have the players have access to an in-game journal.
This is to link in notes etc and help you keep track of anything you may need later. It would also allow you to make notes on the reputations of other players you come across. The better reputation has consequences, the more it was impact players in a positive way. Helping players keep information for themselves in an in-game journal would mean they would better be able to assess potential PUG members for example. It would be a 'more useful' version of the current style of 'friends' lists and 'ignores' etc with the added attraction of VR not having to make a Quest tracker system. YOU can take notes of chat (including quest chat from NPCs) in your journal. YOU take ownership of your quests, what you log, notes you make etc. It could even be saved locally in some 'rich text' format. Heck, you could just re-skin a mini-browser in-game which opens a local page etc.
If you want to go the 'Full Social Media' route, perhaps these journals could even be 'shared' on a website (much like EQ2 player data was). This could be problematic if it contained user added data (I am thinking rude words/pictures) but, then I am not a hardcore 'Social Media' aficionado.
I don't mind simple text logs that perhaps save the NPC conversation with you. I think it's a bit to "easy mode" when the quest log says something, usually more descriptive, than what the NPC told you. Like, if you can just ignore what the NPC says and read the quest log, then the log is too descriptive. If you just copy in the log what the NPC said, then it's left to the player to interpret.
bigdogchris said:I don't mind simple text logs that perhaps save the NPC conversation with you. I think it's a bit to "easy mode" when the quest log says something, usually more descriptive, than what the NPC told you. Like, if you can just ignore what the NPC says and read the quest log, then the log is too descriptive. If you just copy in the log what the NPC said, then it's left to the player to interpret.
I agree with this. If you could just grab the quest info from the quest log you could just skip all the NPC dialogue.
bigdogchris said:I don't mind simple text logs that perhaps save the NPC conversation with you. I think it's a bit to "easy mode" when the quest log says something, usually more descriptive, than what the NPC told you. Like, if you can just ignore what the NPC says and read the quest log, then the log is too descriptive. If you just copy in the log what the NPC said, then it's left to the player to interpret.
This! Don't lay it out too plainly, but at least allow me to get a head start on the journey and then review my notes on the boat to figure out exactly what it is I need to do. I'm sure VR realizes that boring walls of NPC text is probably something that should stay in the past. I have seen some games where the voice over will persist even after you have walked away from the NPC so that you can still listen to what they have to say while you run to where you need to go. I'm not sure if that would fit in Pantheon, but it's an idea. I'd probably just prefer to just get almost an exact text copy of what the NPC said for me to re-read on my own time. Perhaps some NPCs will speak pretty clearly so it's not hard to understand what they want, but others may speaking in more cryptic/riddle messages. That can sometimes be fun to really have a sort of puzzle to deduce what the next step even is.
Basically, somewhere in between EQ1 (quest log practically non-existent) and WoW (too user-friendly) lol.
