I've seen a lot of talk and different opinions going around in different threads, but I haven't seen a topic specifically on the LFG Tool.
If you could design the LFG tool yourself, what features would it have, and how would you specifically improve your LFG tool over those currently in use?
Ideally it would be really simple.
You type /LFG and it puts an LFG tag next to your character's name, and automatically adds you to the LFG window. The LFG window displays either everyone who is LFG, or only the level range you can group with and gain experience with relative to your character's level. I think a checkbox toggle would be sufficient for this functionality.
Right clicking on a player's name in the LFG window will bring up a menu. "Send Tell", which will automatically open up a "/tell PlayerName" in your chat window so you can easily contact them, and an "Invite To Group" button that does the obvious.
That said, I think the arguments I have heard that an LFG tool is often by and large ignored makes me wonder if it's even worthwhile to waste dev time putting it in as is. Maybe we should just stick to the traditional chat spam. Idk. Having better chat window functionality where you can click people's names to send tells/invite to groups also basically mimicks the feature of the LFG window without necessitating the creation of an entirely new UI piece.
I used the LFG flagging system in XI all the time. Though I also shouted and sent /tells just as much (because sometimes people dont know that they need to join my awesome group....... yea Im helpful like that lol).
I would also include role in the LFG information if it isnt obvious. This would mostly apply to hybrid classes or classes that can also do decent damage. Hybrid classes like redmage in XI would typically tell you if they didnt want to be a healer. Though it being a Hybrid role most of the time they didnt have a problem doing either role. Or for instance there were a few times where I wasnt quite up to snuff in my tank gear so rather than make the healers life a living hell, I fell back to a dps-ish slot for a couple levels.
Liav said:That said, I think the arguments I have heard that an LFG tool is often by and large ignored makes me wonder if it's even worthwhile to waste dev time putting it in as is. Maybe we should just stick to the traditional chat spam. Idk. Having better chat window functionality where you can click people's names to send tells/invite to groups also basically mimicks the feature of the LFG window without necessitating the creation of an entirely new UI piece.
That is what I have been thinking. The only time anyone ever uses lfg tool is in WoW with the dungeon finder. And we obviously don't want that. /zone Lfg or camp check should be fine. Doesnt need to spend any dev time on. At least at first. Maybe later on when more important UI functionality is completed something simple for convenience can be made.
Liav said:Ideally it would be really simple.
You type /LFG and it puts an LFG tag next to your character's name, and automatically adds you to the LFG window. The LFG window displays either everyone who is LFG, or only the level range you can group with and gain experience with relative to your character's level. I think a checkbox toggle would be sufficient for this functionality.
Right clicking on a player's name in the LFG window will bring up a menu. "Send Tell", which will automatically open up a "/tell PlayerName" in your chat window so you can easily contact them, and an "Invite To Group" button that does the obvious.
That said, I think the arguments I have heard that an LFG tool is often by and large ignored makes me wonder if it's even worthwhile to waste dev time putting it in as is. Maybe we should just stick to the traditional chat spam. Idk. Having better chat window functionality where you can click people's names to send tells/invite to groups also basically mimicks the feature of the LFG window without necessitating the creation of an entirely new UI piece.
That is exactly the type of LFG there should be, its pretty much what EQ has, and at the height of my game time in EQ it was used quite extensively. Until Mercs were introduced
In Dungeons and Dragons Online they have the best lfg tool i have ever seen. I can sort by class, level, as well as preferred grouping locations. Also i can have notes added to the side so i can announce what special spells or items i have that could seperate myself from the crowd. those looking for group members or looking to join a group can hit the tell button to automatically send a tell to the group leader or person looking for a group. because of its usefullness it is also used more often than world chat for finding a group. (tho when someone is unable to find the class or player they want you still get arsehats that will send direct tells to non lfg ppl to try and recruit them.)
TL;DR if the tool is useful and non restrictive players will use it.
Gawd said:In Dungeons and Dragons Online they have the best lfg tool i have ever seen. I can sort by class, level, as well as preferred grouping locations. Also i can have notes added to the side so i can announce what special spells or items i have that could seperate myself from the crowd. those looking for group members or looking to join a group can hit the tell button to automatically send a tell to the group leader or person looking for a group. because of its usefullness it is also used more often than world chat for finding a group. (tho when someone is unable to find the class or player they want you still get arsehats that will send direct tells to non lfg ppl to try and recruit them.)
TL;DR if the tool is useful and non restrictive players will use it.
I can see it already.
Name | Class | Level | Notes
Liavy | Rogue | 37 | Best DPS worldwide. Also most attractive Rogue WW irl. Also where I go my harem follows. Harem non-negotiable. Don't invite me unless you know what you're getting yourself in to.
Just kidding. Or am I?
I liked how EQ had their LFG when they added it. It was more of a way for people to find each other then for instant travel to a dungeon, run it and leave. As long as it just list your class, level and general area you're looking for I am ok with it. If it is a wow'isq one with fast travel etc, no thanks
I am all for making it easier to start/join a group since that is how most of us will be spending a good majority of our time. What I would try to avoid is having the tool automatically form the group for you or join you to an existing group. The sense I get is that we want to have total control over forming our groups, we just want the ease of having a pool of players to pick from with enough information about them to make informed decisions. A simple interface as described above where you can see who has added themselves to the pool, their class, level, name, and maybe any notes they thought would be relevant to add would be great.
Another feature that tends to get grouped into these tools that has a lot of people in a tizzy is fast travel to the group's location. I think there could be some happy mediums that people would agree on that would be worth discussing. The least forgiving would be to simply include the location of each prospective member in the LFG interface with no assistance to get them to the desired location outside of whatever abilities the members of the group have on their own. I would consider the next level up from that the ability to port to the group leader's location or a pre-defined location that is available in each zone for that purpose. There could be some limitations added to that feature to make it less of a gimme such as requiring at least 2-3 members of the party be in proximity of the group leader for any ports similar to how Warlock summons worked in World of Warcraft. Another could be that you had to have previously visited the destination zone in order to "unlock" the ability to port or be summoned there.
I would personally like to see the later implemtation that I described above. It falls short of just flat out having instanced dungeons that each group member is automatically ported to and completed in short order. You still need to vet prospective group members and invite them yourself, there are some conditions to get every group member to the same location, but it does speed up the process enough that everyone can efficiently use their time without totally trivializing the game world.
internalprime8 said:I
Another feature that tends to get grouped into these tools that has a lot of people in a tizzy is fast travel to the group's location. I think there could be some happy mediums that people would agree on that would be worth discussing. The least forgiving would be to simply include the location of each prospective member in the LFG interface with no assistance to get them to the desired location outside of whatever abilities the members of the group have on their own. I would consider the next level up from that the ability to port to the group leader's location or a pre-defined location that is available in each zone for that purpose. There could be some limitations added to that feature to make it less of a gimme such as requiring at least 2-3 members of the party be in proximity of the group leader for any ports similar to how Warlock summons worked in World of Warcraft. Another could be that you had to have previously visited the destination zone in order to "unlock" the ability to port or be summoned there.
I forget where I read/saw it but I believe Brad talked about hubs in different areas of the world. I would be OK if when you get a group you are able to move to the Hub of that continent's area. Looking at the Terminus Atlas examples could be where the crowns are are hubs, and if your group is in Viel of Azeris you can port to Wild's End and run from there. I would not be a fan of just allowing you to port to the group leader as that would be easily abused and used to port an infinite number of people anywhere in the world quickly.
Dreconic said:internalprime8 said:I
Another feature that tends to get grouped into these tools that has a lot of people in a tizzy is fast travel to the group's location. I think there could be some happy mediums that people would agree on that would be worth discussing. The least forgiving would be to simply include the location of each prospective member in the LFG interface with no assistance to get them to the desired location outside of whatever abilities the members of the group have on their own. I would consider the next level up from that the ability to port to the group leader's location or a pre-defined location that is available in each zone for that purpose. There could be some limitations added to that feature to make it less of a gimme such as requiring at least 2-3 members of the party be in proximity of the group leader for any ports similar to how Warlock summons worked in World of Warcraft. Another could be that you had to have previously visited the destination zone in order to "unlock" the ability to port or be summoned there.
I forget where I read/saw it but I believe Brad talked about hubs in different areas of the world. I would be OK if when you get a group you are able to move to the Hub of that continent's area. Looking at the Terminus Atlas examples could be where the crowns are are hubs, and if your group is in Viel of Azeris you can port to Wild's End and run from there. I would not be a fan of just allowing you to port to the group leader as that would be easily abused and used to port an infinite number of people anywhere in the world quickly.
At one point there was talk of the starter cities having teleporters...but that was met with very serious opposition so im pretty sure it was scratched. I think any sort of fast travel will be player character provided ( i.e. druid wizard ports)
I say - keep guild hallls, Fast travel, Selling Loot Rights, and instances (for the most part)> out of this game. Oh yeah- and mercs. In the end, all you have is people leveling in instances, everyone has the same gear, and no one groups. In regards to LFG tool- for some reason people tend to not use them. Maybe they would if instances were held to a minimal, and there is a reason to group. A neat feature might include- what the groups current needs are. For instance, an icon that shows a tank symbol when one is needed. Otherwise, I prefer to use gen chan or LFG channel. Prob be a good idea to take a poll on this topic. Would you prefer to just ask in chat or have a LFG tool >?
Some good points all around. I actually think a LFG tool is smart expecially depending on how large the game is. I would like to see all city hubs connected in social communications and it would be a cool idea that in that "hub" typing /lfg Shaman healer 20-25 it would match you with others looking to make a group and in need of a role.
Xan
Xanier said:Some good points all around. I actually think a LFG tool is smart expecially depending on how large the game is. I would like to see all city hubs connected in social communications and it would be a cool idea that in that "hub" typing /lfg Shaman healer 20-25 it would match you with others looking to make a group and in need of a role.
Xan
The RP'er inside myself cringes at having a server-wide or "all city hub" wide chat channel, but I understand that a LFG channel would need to be at least region-wide if not server-wide.
Gawd said:In Dungeons and Dragons Online they have the best lfg tool i have ever seen. I can sort by class, level, as well as preferred grouping locations. Also i can have notes added to the side so i can announce what special spells or items i have that could seperate myself from the crowd. those looking for group members or looking to join a group can hit the tell button to automatically send a tell to the group leader or person looking for a group. because of its usefullness it is also used more often than world chat for finding a group. (tho when someone is unable to find the class or player they want you still get arsehats that will send direct tells to non lfg ppl to try and recruit them.)
TL;DR if the tool is useful and non restrictive players will use it.
This sounds good to me, simple and effective tool that lets others know you are LFG and for where w/o having to spam /ooc. AS LONG AS there is no insta ports to anywhere when you join a group and there is no auto group builder. Really like the idea of notes in the tool as well. Be even better if you could attach notes to someone while you were grouping, that would then show up in the LFG tool later whenever they were on the LFG list. Personal notes of course.
Self, I like this cleric, fun to group with and knows his role well
*add something like that to notes*
Next time that cleric is LFG and you are LFM, you can see what you noted ( no one else can ) if that makes sense.
I think a simple tool that auto finds a group for you would be perfect. I realize some of you get an twitchy eye when you read that but ive seen that opt in "someone has to take the initiative" approach before and it failed. It simply wasnt used.As in they may as well just skip it and leave it as the old fashioned chat spam. WoW had it first, then SWTOR, and IIRC LotRO tried it as well... all were hardly worth even trying. A world LFG channel would just be abused by trolls and gold farmers so I dont think thats good either. Leaving it to populated area chats like main cities and hubs can be near impossible, aggravating, and limited.
Thats why I think one whose sole task is to automatically put groups together by queue, no ports at all, would be ideal. Lets not forget for all the drawbacks that have come with an automatic LFG tool, it also keeps old content doable for new players through 'random queues.' Either way, its not exactly the same thing, it doesnt "hold your hand" and I think if the devs dont fall into the 'casual trap' of easy 15 minute dungeons, it should get rid of the silent runs MMO's have been having lately.
Kayo said:I think a simple tool that auto finds a group for you would be perfect. I realize some of you get an twitchy eye when you read that but ive seen that opt in "someone has to take the initiative" approach before and it failed. It simply wasnt used.As in they may as well just skip it and leave it as the old fashioned chat spam. WoW had it first, then SWTOR, and IIRC LotRO tried it as well... all were hardly worth even trying. A world LFG channel would just be abused by trolls and gold farmers so I dont think thats good either. Leaving it to populated area chats like main cities and hubs can be near impossible, aggravating, and limited.
Thats why I think one whose sole task is to automatically put groups together by queue, no ports at all, would be ideal. Lets not forget for all the drawbacks that have come with an automatic LFG tool, it also keeps old content doable for new players through 'random queues.' Either way, its not exactly the same thing, it doesnt "hold your hand" and I think if the devs dont fall into the 'casual trap' of easy 15 minute dungeons, it should get rid of the silent runs MMO's have been having lately.
my problem with this method is that it would not allow for flexability with group formation. say the autogroupfinder decided that in order to make a group you need to have one dedicated healer, one tank, one CC, and 3 DPS. now this is the perfect group, but i have done much waiting on my healer for a tank in a group and vice versa. and some players have enough grasp of the class they play that it allows them to take over spots that arent really thiers.
in eq my Beastlord was a dps class, but with his build and aa's he was able to tank well in group situations using cripple and slows along with lifetap weapons to keep aggro.
in an autogroup tool this would not be able to be done because the tool would define me as only able to fill the dps slot. even though i know that i can tank the dungeon and have done it before. in turn this would lead to me standing around for 3 hours waiting on a tank to type /lfg while the 5 others in my group leave it to reque.
another problem occurs to me as i was about to post. that if noone is willing to make the initial contact then this experience will turn into just another silent GOGOGOGO dungeon speed run with noone communicating and will bypass the whole making friends aspect of the game because everyone is too shy to say "Hi my group and I are wondering if you want to join us in Abyss Reach, we are only lacking a tank ATM."
Dreconic said:Xanier said:Some good points all around. I actually think a LFG tool is smart expecially depending on how large the game is. I would like to see all city hubs connected in social communications and it would be a cool idea that in that "hub" typing /lfg Shaman healer 20-25 it would match you with others looking to make a group and in need of a role.
Xan
The RP'er inside myself cringes at having a server-wide or "all city hub" wide chat channel, but I understand that a LFG channel would need to be at least region-wide if not server-wide.
I get where your coming from as a RP'r but to be fair, there are not a ton of you pure RP's around these days. : (
I'm very pro lfg tool. I think it could be extremely beneficial in a group-centric game like I think Pantheon will be. That said, it really needs to be implemented well. No auto group (the group leader would decide who to include...regardless of class). No insta-port. (I think insta-ports should be guild only, but that's a different topic.)
The thing is, an lfg feature would need to be...promoted (for lack of a better word) from early levels for it to be successful. I'd really love to see the lfg tool used as early as level 2-6 so that players can get used to needing to group, and for finding their community. I think that would teach good lfg habits, and could help teach the "spirit" of the game. And, as long as there is a good interface, it would aid in community and guild building. There is no reason that a lfg tool couldn't be very succesful and effective. It could even be expanded to include trade...crafting...bulletin board... Those things could make it very useful. Starting at early levels is key though.
As far as interface goes, Liav pretty much nailed it above. Simple, and to the point. Maybe add an "Invite to Guild" and a "Friend" option. Probably an "ignore" as well. I do disagree with Liav that it might not be worth the dev resources. If implemented correctly, a lfg tool would only be good for the game. Totally worth it. It could be a very powerful tool. You just have to get people to use it...
This is what I'd like to see.. two added things from the "traditional" LFG tools:
1) The ability to be LFG with multiple characters.. that way you can solo while waiting (or craft on a crafting character etc).
2) A timestamp for how long you've been LFG for. So that way as a person creating a group you can choose to prioritise over someone who has been waiting a long time.. unlike before you didn't know how long someone was waiting for so just picked anyway.. Which means that; that person could have been waiting a long time. Atleast this way it'll improve the experience a lil and get you into a group faster.
The local Tavern should be the first LFG Tool one should try... base everything off players who are ACTIVELY seeking a group. Those who can't bother to meet up at the tavern, can still have a "flag" of LFG over their head, but possibly not able to use a LFG tool until they are in a Tavern, or City, etc..
