So I have seen in several posts that certain features break the social aspect of a game so I have 2 questions
1: What is your idea of a Social Game
2: What features in MMO helped break it. Please use real examples from games and not just a blind Trading houses broke it because I said so.
For me Social is grouping with friends questing raiding PVPing with them all the time chatting in Vent or Teamspeak. I never considered how I sold stuff to be social because I didnt really care about the person I sold to I just need some coin. Same with PUGS I might group with you because im bored doesnt mean I will always be social. So for me Social is what you do with friends of guildmates and all the time you spend with these people sometimes you will spend years talking to these peoples. Hell I have even gone skiiing with guildmates IRL.
One feature that is tough for me is travelling. Playing EVE and sometimes having to travel an hour just to meet up with someone was retarded and nothing turned me off then a super long travel system. Many times I would be like well lets do this later and Ill slowly move my ship closer. game worlds are getting bigger and bigger and travel on foot isnt always an option. A lot of people don;t want to spend an hour waiting for the 6th groupmate to arrive. In MMO where travel is a time consuming thing the First question is Class/lvl second question is Where are you? EQ and EQ2 had a decent balance some classes could port some could increase run speed there was boats that would get you to Kunark but once there you had to run to get to most places in that zone. Some times it still took 20 minutes even with faster modes of travel.
Now I do 100 percent agree with a LFG system Like WOW/ESO that auto makes groups and ports you to a dungeon is horrible. a simple /LFG and a board that says who is looking for group with there class and level. That plus a shout in global chat lvl 50 Crusader LFG is more then enough.
I am far more worried about dumbing down content in a game then losing the ability to converse with some darkelf I dont know
I leveled a few characters through EQ. On my way through, I met and grouped with many, many characters. Many of these characters logged on generally in the same time-frame, and we tended to run into each other repeatedly. Leveling took months, and during this time, I got to know the people/characters pretty well. Where they liked to hunt, what quests they were on, their grouping style, how well they played, we told of encounters in far parts of the world, etc.
A dynamic was created when players treated each other with respect, or at least the understanding that they came together to achieve a common goal (whatever that goal may be). Relationships formed between players/characters (some good, some otherwise), and reputations were formed. When I saw certain characters LFG, or just in the same area, perhaps in zone chat, I knew if I wanted to group with them, because I was familiar with them.
I think a lot of this has been lost for many reasons. Leveling speed has increased, so you will almost never group with the same characters more than 1-2 times. Grouping activity has been reduced, and, even if you are in a group these days, there’s no time to chat – it’s all about the speed runs. Cross server activities make the pool of characters so large, there’s no way to remember everyone – or even more than a handful of characters you’ve grouped with. This all creates a certain anonymity, and with that anonymity it seems that people find far less time to “socialize” and far more time to individualize the game.
xtnpd said:I leveled a few characters through EQ. On my way through, I met and grouped with many, many characters. Many of these characters logged on generally in the same time-frame, and we tended to run into each other repeatedly. Leveling took months, and during this time, I got to know the people/characters pretty well. Where they liked to hunt, what quests they were on, their grouping style, how well they played, we told of encounters in far parts of the world, etc.
A dynamic was created when players treated each other with respect, or at least the understanding that they came together to achieve a common goal (whatever that goal may be). Relationships formed between players/characters (some good, some otherwise), and reputations were formed. When I saw certain characters LFG, or just in the same area, perhaps in zone chat, I knew if I wanted to group with them, because I was familiar with them.
I think a lot of this has been lost for many reasons. Leveling speed has increased, so you will almost never group with the same characters more than 1-2 times. Grouping activity has been reduced, and, even if you are in a group these days, there’s no time to chat – it’s all about the speed runs. Cross server activities make the pool of characters so large, there’s no way to remember everyone – or even more than a handful of characters you’ve grouped with. This all creates a certain anonymity, and with that anonymity it seems that people find far less time to “socialize” and far more time to individualize the game.
Well Said I do feel leveling Speed and how easy it could be means you see less grouping and could be the decline of the social aspect.. And when leveling in EQ and EQ2 I did forma bond with the people I grouped with many of us leveled our toons to max together joined the same guild. I rolled with the same cored 10 people for groups and PVP in Everquest 2 for 6 Years easy. People knew if there was one person roaming around chances they knew there was 4 or 5 of us close by.
The biggest thing for me was the move from camping/grinding to questing in order to level your character. This started with WoW and subsequent MMOs I have tried since then have followed the same pattern. What this does is puts the focus on a lot of quick tasks. The game design reasoning of this is that you are "playing the game" more but it sacrifices a lot that designers may not have realized in the old system.
When your primary method for getting experience was to find a group and camp a fairly small location for a few hours, you would develop a raport with your groupmates. The combat system in EQ was simple and even when you were chain pulling mobs, most classes didn't have a lot to do. This brought less focus on the combat and more on socializing to fill in the gaps. If you weren't in a great camp or your group wasn't well geared, you also had a lot of downtime with which to chat. I believe that this was the biggest cause of the decline because of how large a chunk of time you spent in groups.
Another lesser reason is how little players depend on one another for everyday tasks in modern MMOs. In EQ, especially pre-PoP, you needed clerics to rez you, druids and wizards to port you, druids and shamans to SoW you, enchanters to clarify you--and that was all outside of combat. You could eventually just hang out in PoK and get most of these services for small donations later on but it was always to your benefit to befriend these other players and share what benefits each of you had to offer.
Looking forward to what others think but "the grind" is the big one for me.
xtnpd said:I leveled a few characters through EQ. On my way through, I met and grouped with many, many characters. Many of these characters logged on generally in the same time-frame, and we tended to run into each other repeatedly. Leveling took months, and during this time, I got to know the people/characters pretty well. Where they liked to hunt, what quests they were on, their grouping style, how well they played, we told of encounters in far parts of the world, etc.
A dynamic was created when players treated each other with respect, or at least the understanding that they came together to achieve a common goal (whatever that goal may be). Relationships formed between players/characters (some good, some otherwise), and reputations were formed. When I saw certain characters LFG, or just in the same area, perhaps in zone chat, I knew if I wanted to group with them, because I was familiar with them.
I think a lot of this has been lost for many reasons. Leveling speed has increased, so you will almost never group with the same characters more than 1-2 times. Grouping activity has been reduced, and, even if you are in a group these days, there’s no time to chat – it’s all about the speed runs. Cross server activities make the pool of characters so large, there’s no way to remember everyone – or even more than a handful of characters you’ve grouped with. This all creates a certain anonymity, and with that anonymity it seems that people find far less time to “socialize” and far more time to individualize the game.
This pretty much mirrors my experience in EQ, and its something I have been missing for the past 10+ years. I completely agree that the ease and speed of content directly affects social relationships. As you have said, slower leveling reinforces relationships and allows you to get to know people that started their characters around the same time and area as you. Even within a guild, your bond with someone that you leveled with often is different from someone that you didn't. I want leveling to truly be an important and memorable part of the game, not an inconvenient glorified tutorial that you are forced to do before the real game starts at max level.
As far as traveling goes, I definitely lean more towards longer slower "realistic" travel. Clicking on a point on a map or instantly teleporting to your group breaks immersion to say the least, and feels like a cop-out. I am fine with Druid/Wizard teleports or magician summons (forget the name of the spell) or gating. It makes sense from a class or lore standpoint, and I think it’s a nice addition for those classes. But when you and some friends, or even strangers, decide to move your group from one end of the continent to the other, that journey adds to the social immersion of a living world.
Speaking of class differences, that is another factor that I feel has led to the social decline of MMOs. When most of the classes in a game can fulfill most of the roles with a simple "respec," the need to find people to fill a role diminishes, and with it the opportunity to build and develop lasting relationships. I think classes should be very specialized and should depend on each other for success. A druid shouldn't be able to tank and heal and dps, for example.
Duffy said: What makes my game social is how people behave in pick up groups. It's easy to be friendly to friends... I think when someone can't stomach to acknowledge the group by greeting people or answering questions, (game related) then this person shouldn't go pick up at all. You need the pick up group, you acknowledge the people in your group. Nobody (I guess) is so extremely impolite in real life to just not respond to anything. Why so in a game?
This is very important too. I'm not a super strict role player by any means, but just imaging that your character is a real being talking with other real beings. In WoW, the vast majority of questions about the game are answered with "stop being lazy and Google it." Yes, I understand how Google works and I can find the answer to virtually anything there...but sometimes I like asking questions in a manner that my character would, and I would like to get an answer from someone as their character would answer. In a social non instanced game where you aren’t handed your own personal dungeon, reputation matters, and being helpful and friendly will get you farther than going out of your way to type out a rude and unnecessary comment in chat every 5 minutes.
Anything that removes Class or Player interaction or interdependance
Inst travel removes the need for other people
Quest hubs pretty much put you on a solo path
Group finders just automatically drop you in a group
Auction houses where you just dump your junk and later come pick up your cash
Global channels where there is nothing but spam, gold sellers, trolls....etc etc. The zone wide channels were great because in a slow leveling game like EQ you stayed in a zone for a long time and got to know the others in the area....not just random idiot spouting about WoW clones or trying to be offensive
Pretty much anything that causes me to interact with the game instead of the world or another player
I actually have no problem with group finders as long as they only fill open slots with people from your server, in that instance it becomes an easy way to meet new people making it an meaningful and impactful social tool because there is a much higher chance that you may run into them again and your interactions will be remembered; good or bad. Most games that use group finders seem to use the more traditional cross server/realm/shard paradigm which does the exact opposite.
I'm perfectly fine with group finders too. It's not something you have to use if you don't want to and I would certainly defer to a guild group before PUGing it. I don't think that takes away from the social aspect if what you are doing once in the group is deliberate and meaningful. I certainly didn't make friends by spamming people with /tells who were of in the right class/level range in the hope that one of them was just hanging out hoping for a group invite.
1. A game where you are required to communicate and need other people to do almost anything. Your character is subject to the game world's rules, not vice versa.
2. Instant/auto travel - You're at A and want to go to C, but there's an hour of B in between. That's your fault, not the game's fault. You don't get to demand a bypassing of B to get what you want. You obey the game world's rules, the world doesn't care about what YOU want. Your example about travel was perfect. You want to go do something an hour away. That's your responsbility, not the game's. Yes there should be travel mechanics like player porting/etc because it makes sense in the context of the game world and technically should have nothing to do with your personal convenience. That's good game design.
Automated auction houses - Pretty self explanatory. You want to sell something another player. Another player. Player. You have to talk to people. Mind boggling.
Global chat channels - Unless the game world lore has cell phones and/or internet, it has no business in the game.
3. What this boils down to is that games are now designed with player convenience / "this is a video game" mentality at the forefront. If you instead base the design around "how would this actually work in the context of this virtual world's rules and laws" then we're destined for greatness.
Edit: Woof forgot the 2nd most important part to make the game social: combat. Slow it down. There's no need to mash buttons 24/7. Give us less abilities, and timers/resources that prohibit usage. All these action MMO's (Hi Tera, Black Desert, etc) or even generic ones (Hey WoW, Rift, etc) make you push buttons non-stop. To what end? It's fun for like an hour tops, and you don't get to talk/strategize/do anything else.
Should be more akin to say a slowed down Skyrim (not in physical mechanics but think of ability usage). You may only swing or use a spell 4-5 times tops in a fight. Over a few minutes.
picks86 said:1. A game where you are required to communicate and need other people to do almost anything. Your character is subject to the game world's rules, not vice versa.
2. Instant/auto travel - You're at A and want to go to C, but there's an hour of B in between. That's your fault, not the game's fault. You don't get to demand a bypassing of B to get what you want. You obey the game world's rules, the world doesn't care about what YOU want. Your example about travel was perfect. You want to go do something an hour away. That's your responsbility, not the game's. Yes there should be travel mechanics like player porting/etc because it makes sense in the context of the game world and technically should have nothing to do with your personal convenience. That's good game design.
Automated auction houses - Pretty self explanatory. You want to sell something another player. Another player. Player. You have to talk to people. Mind boggling.
Global chat channels - Unless the game world lore has cell phones and/or internet, it has no business in the game.
3. What this boils down to is that games are now designed with player convenience / "this is a video game" mentality at the forefront. If you instead base the design around "how would this actually work in the context of this virtual world's rules and laws" then we're destined for greatness. This is the part I find interesting. You state how would this actully work. This world is filled with Magic and Dieties and who knows whatever else. Why can't there be a magical Ebay? In a world where one player can teleport someone from any place in the world why cant they have a magic boat that goes from A to C and not need to waste an hour in B?? Personally If i had the power to port one person I would study the spell and make it work for like a bell or a boat and make a killing charging people.
Kalgore said: This is the part I find interesting. You state how would this actully work. This world is filled with Magic and Dieties and who knows whatever else. Why can't there be a magical Ebay? In a world where one player can teleport someone from any place in the world why cant they have a magic boat that goes from A to C and not need to waste an hour in B?? Personally If i had the power to port one person I would study the spell and make it work for like a bell or a boat and make a killing charging people.
Well that's why I said as long as it makes sense. If you can afford to pay someone a boatload of money to magically travel from A to C and bypass B, and its rare/difficult/adheres to the tone of the world then I have no qualms. Especially if it is something player controlled? Even better! I'd love to become a powerful enough wizard to run a taxi or magical Ebay service, but you can't do that in world with NPC portals, flight paths, or auction houses. Na mean?
What if these mechanics also had risk vs. reward built in? Porting from A to C might accidentally put you at D, or you might come out exhausted/fatigued for 10 minutes because the portal wasn't perfect. Maybe porting from A to J has a chance to tear you apart and kill you because the spell is more difficult? Becoming a more powerful sorcerer could lessen these chances.
Magically sending an item to someone has a chance to degrade, destroy, or maybe even enhance an item temporarily depending on the distance and your skill as wizard? You get the accessibility factor, but there's still depth to it. Answers like this are way more interesting to world design.
picks86 said:...
There's no need to mash buttons 24/7. Give us less abilities, and timers/resources that prohibit usage. All these action MMO's (Hi Tera, Black Desert, etc) or even generic ones (Hey WoW, Rift, etc) make you push buttons non-stop. To what end? It's fun for like an hour tops, and you don't get to talk/strategize/do anything else.
This is a big one - If you're constantly having to mash buttons, you can't chat with someone or the group.
I think the underlyig issue though is whether (most) people intend to play for, say, 30min (primarily) or whether they have to plan-for/set-aside more time. - If you can play for only 30min, you need to start without delay, travel to your spot, and your only goal is to get the task done - no time to socialize or anything else. (Unless you log on to just socialize for 30m, of course!).
Having a core set of friends helps with this, but that implies you don't do the 30min stint primarily.
I'd argue that friends will be social no matter what. Now that we're in the era of Vent/Mumble/TS: guilds, account-friend lists, etc are redundant.
The game doesn't need to encourage or help me interact with people I already know.
IMO, the game needs to help break down the closed communities. Give me tools to find NEW people. Give me a game pace that's slow enough to type so Vent/TS returns to optional. Reduce the UI i have to keep track of so I can read the chat window. Give me incentive to stand on noob log and interact with new players or old players levelling alts. Give RPers (the ones that make the world a sandbox instead of a themepark) a reason to gather at inns and cities instead of tucked away in guild-halls and player housing.
Remove implicit PVP where possible. Racing/KSing spawns, nodes, nameds, etc. If it's a skill check, put it in an instance, otherwise make like GW2 and put us in an implicit group.
If raiding is all that's left at top level /sigh, then help it be inclusive. Take a page from City of Heroes or GW2 and design raids (and rewards) to scale up/down.
Social games require downtime. If you are constantly on the move or fast twitching, there is no room to build relationships with other people. The people in your guild can become like family if you actually get to stop and spend time with them between pulls, or while running half an hour to get to a dungeon. That aspect of EQ was as responsible for "the magic" as any other.
What is it and how did we lose it?
I agree that downtime is one aspect that made a more social game. If you could keep a room cleared in a dungeon while camping a named for an uber item, you got 5 or 6 minutes where you could chat with group mates, make plans for later, make plans for the weekend, swap stories, etc. Now we have "dungeon runs" and run is right. Crazy. If you don't move fast enough you get pitched unceremoniously from the group. Race through it, grab the loot, gate to town, disband, join another group, port to the dungeon, repeat. Maybe somebody grunts something on voice chat once in a while.
In EQ I remember chatting in /gu one New Years Eve and we were laughing about how our new years resolution was to not have to look at our spell books when we were medding. What was that, level 38 in EQ? In the early days it could take months to get to level 38. One famous enchanter who kept a website (I cant remember which one) was 59 for about a year before she finally made 60. She died a lot. Sure there were min maxers but for the most part there were a lot of people just moseying around in the game. I've been both a mosey-er and a powergamer. I like having people in the game who mosey around. But how do you get these kinds of players interested, when now they can just facebook with each other? You have to entice them that there's something extra, and that they don't suck because they arent max level in a week.
Another holiday eve me and a friend were leveling one of our alts somewhere, and we were all by ourselves in a zone and then one of the clerics from the local uberguild comes riding through on her horse (horse!!! that was rare) and she wished us a Merry Christmas, stopped and buffed us, chatted a bit in ooc, then went on her way. I always remember that night. Just because it was so relaxing and friendly - two strangers wishing each other a happy holiday for no other reason than they played the same game.
So what is it? I think it is "relationships." Many and varied relationships between people who maybe otherwise wouldn't be likely to have relationships with each other. How do you facilitate that? By making a game that has a lot of different paths, a lot of different goals. Where playing music and chatting in a bar (SW:G) is a valid playstyle. Where mucking around in a level 40 dungeon with others of like level is a valid playstyle. Where raiding at max level is a valid playstyle, but not the only playstyle.
How did we lose it? I think speed and action. Following the question marks above the NPCs heads and completing the tasks and getting the pelts and turning them in etc etc etc and get 20 levels by noon doesn't facilitate the social game, imo. Also anti buff mechanics - have to be in the group, etc.
That and I do think there is something to the argument that AO and EQ1 were radically new, and as such enjoyed popularity far beyond what their mechanics actually warranted. And that we evolved mmo's beyond those early incarnations and nobody is going to want to sit there and look at their spell book for 15 minutes, then die when they get trained by a snake because they were sitting too close to where the snakes roamed, then have to sit there again for 15 more minutes, only this time theyve lost there level. Cute thought, but nobody is going to buy into that.
So we need something to slow it down that is an evolution from where we've come from. Im hoping this game can find a way.
Kalgore said:picks86 said:1. A game where you are required to communicate and need other people to do almost anything. Your character is subject to the game world's rules, not vice versa.
2. Instant/auto travel - You're at A and want to go to C, but there's an hour of B in between. That's your fault, not the game's fault. You don't get to demand a bypassing of B to get what you want. You obey the game world's rules, the world doesn't care about what YOU want. Your example about travel was perfect. You want to go do something an hour away. That's your responsbility, not the game's. Yes there should be travel mechanics like player porting/etc because it makes sense in the context of the game world and technically should have nothing to do with your personal convenience. That's good game design.
Automated auction houses - Pretty self explanatory. You want to sell something another player. Another player. Player. You have to talk to people. Mind boggling.
Global chat channels - Unless the game world lore has cell phones and/or internet, it has no business in the game.
3. What this boils down to is that games are now designed with player convenience / "this is a video game" mentality at the forefront. If you instead base the design around "how would this actually work in the context of this virtual world's rules and laws" then we're destined for greatness. This is the part I find interesting. You state how would this actully work. This world is filled with Magic and Dieties and who knows whatever else. Why can't there be a magical Ebay? In a world where one player can teleport someone from any place in the world why cant they have a magic boat that goes from A to C and not need to waste an hour in B?? Personally If i had the power to port one person I would study the spell and make it work for like a bell or a boat and make a killing charging people.
You're tumbling head first down the slippery slope that is explaining everything away with magic. It has to stop somewhere. It makes me sad that people don't get the "virtual world" part of it. Of course there are things that make us suspend our disbelief, it's a video game, but come on. It's all about the integrity of the world.
Kalgore said:1: What is your idea of a Social Game
My idea of a social game is one that fosters an actual sense of community. Reputation is something that people keep bringing up and that, I think, is a big part of it. I feel that in a truly social game you should meet and interact with, support and rely upon, and generally get a working knowldege about the other people playing in the game with you.
Kalgore said:What features in MMO helped break it. Please use real examples from games and not just a blind Trading houses broke it because I said so.
The only MMO's I've played are Everquest, Neverwinter and Destiny the latter two only being what I would consider 'pseudo-MMO's.' So my answer to this is going to be from the perspective of Everquest.
To some degree Everquest never quit being a 'Social Game,' however my sense of 'community' changed significantly over time. I'm not going to point a finger at the usual suspects like instancing, global chat channels and global auction houses. I was still forming bonds with players in 2014 when I quit playing and all of these features had long since been added in. In fact, most of the reason I was still playing at all was because of those bonds. That said, the size of the world had shrunk from being the server as a community to just being my guild, and a lot of the reason for that revolved around one thing--"need".
By end-game there was little need for interaction with other players. In an end-game guild you had an able-bodied group of players that had already been vetted by the recruitment process so that anytime you needed a hand you knew you could rely on consistent people to help you out. Beyond the bonds of friendship that formed within the guild, there was a mutual interest in making sure that each and every member was reaching their full potential--what was a gain for one, was a gain for the whole. Coupled with not needing to look outside the guild for any assistance, content was being developed in a tiered fashion such that group encounters were balanced against people equiped in group-attained gear and raid encounters were balanced against people in raid gear. As a result, raid geared players could more or less steam-roll any of the group content. I did the vast majority of group content, including instances designed for a 6-man group, either solo with my mercenary or with a necromancer friend of mine and his merc. All of the social interaction and interdependence only existed in the raid setting.
I guess the tl:dr version is that a lack of content that required social interaction is what broke the social aspect of Everquest, atleast in the group setting. It still very much existed within guilds.
As far as the other issues that keep coming up like instancing and global chat--I have opinions about them but they're probably better suited for the thread on Immersion, so I think I'll make a post there eventually.
edit: spelling
I guess the tl:dr version is that a lack of content that required social interaction is what broke the social aspect of Everquest, atleast in the group setting. It still very much existed within guilds.
@ Elrandir
In your opinion, do you think the Guild structure in MMORPGs have hurt the genre overall? Maybe they promote a more closed off gaming experience as opposed to a more open one if there were no guilds?
If so, do you see any way to maybe fix the situation? maybe the open guild system like in GW2?
If not how would you maybe help players to expand outside the comfort zone of their guild...to maybe make people more interactive sinlgulary in the wider world?
To be a proper social game (IMHO) things need to be slowed down. XP, Leveling, Combat etc etc etc. I know Im rehashing what folks said above but thats exactly how I feel. I cant remember any particular names, faces (in game) in any game really since EQ. vanguard was close but even there we leveled way to fast and most folks ran from one ? over someones head to another.
It's telling for me that 16 years on I can still remember the good, Nosifer Half-Elf Pally I leveled and played with on the 7th Hammer, great guy, great pally and even tho as we leveled we joined different guilds etc, runing into him in EC and bullshitting about what we had been up to was great. Miss that guy. I can still remember the bad as well, Linvarwen, horrible horrible druid on the 7th. Trains, ninja looting, spamming /ooc with inane bullshit (he was the first ever Barrens Chat, Im sure of it) and basically shunned wherever he went. THATS the kind of social aspect I miss in MMOs and what I keenly want to see return. A server community where name matters, actions have reprecussions and firends can be made. Speeding to endgame, speed runs through dungeons and total ease of self suffiency is what killed it I think.
Sevens said:I guess the tl:dr version is that a lack of content that required social interaction is what broke the social aspect of Everquest, atleast in the group setting. It still very much existed within guilds.
@ Elrandir
In your opinion, do you think the Guild structure in MMORPGs have hurt the genre overall? Maybe they promote a more closed off gaming experience as opposed to a more open one if there were no guilds?
If so, do you see any way to maybe fix the situation? maybe the open guild system like in GW2?
If not how would you maybe help players to expand outside the comfort zone of their guild...to maybe make people more interactive sinlgulary in the wider world?
[/blokquote]
See I never saw that as a problem. our guilds were closed off yah but we had a lot of members and stull did stuff outside of group. Hell our non raiding members were allowed to help ceretain guilds in pickup raids. My closest friendships were guildmates and some of them were real life we planned trips skiiing camping hell 20 of us went barhopping in Dublin for 8 days. I dont think they would happen without the guild aspect of Everquest.
From the sound sof it a lot of people so far feel time is what it takes. Those moments where you wait 5 or 10 mintues for a mob to spawn to sit and chat kill mob and do it again. I agree I think back to how much our guild mates chatted waiting for raids to form and stuff and it was a lot of different topics both game and life.
Garmr said:To be a proper social game (IMHO) things need to be slowed down. XP, Leveling, Combat etc etc etc. I know Im rehashing what folks said above but thats exactly how I feel. I cant remember any particular names, faces (in game) in any game really since EQ. vanguard was close but even there we leveled way to fast and most folks ran from one ? over someones head to another.
It's telling for me that 16 years on I can still remember the good, Nosifer Half-Elf Pally I leveled and played with on the 7th Hammer, great guy, great pally and even tho as we leveled we joined different guilds etc, runing into him in EC and bullshitting about what we had been up to was great. Miss that guy. I can still remember the bad as well, Linvarwen, horrible horrible druid on the 7th. Trains, ninja looting, spamming /ooc with inane bullshit (he was the first ever Barrens Chat, Im sure of it) and basically shunned wherever he went. THATS the kind of social aspect I miss in MMOs and what I keenly want to see return. A server community where name matters, actions have reprecussions and firends can be made. Speeding to endgame, speed runs through dungeons and total ease of self suffiency is what killed it I think.
I can still remember 12 years later the Froglok Swashbuckler in EQ2 I leveled with from 10-max named creeper. Or my clostes group of PVP buddies. Famine the Brig, Time the Warden, Kalgore the Pally, Cipher the Inquiz, and Uthel the wizard. All the time we spent together PVPing agrouping and raiding was insane. Hell it got to the point where the other faction knew if they saw one there was the other five coming.
Kalgore said:Sevens said:I guess the tl:dr version is that a lack of content that required social interaction is what broke the social aspect of Everquest, atleast in the group setting. It still very much existed within guilds.
@ Elrandir
In your opinion, do you think the Guild structure in MMORPGs have hurt the genre overall? Maybe they promote a more closed off gaming experience as opposed to a more open one if there were no guilds?
If so, do you see any way to maybe fix the situation? maybe the open guild system like in GW2?
If not how would you maybe help players to expand outside the comfort zone of their guild...to maybe make people more interactive sinlgulary in the wider world?
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See I never saw that as a problem. our guilds were closed off yah but we had a lot of members and stull did stuff outside of group. Hell our non raiding members were allowed to help ceretain guilds in pickup raids. My closest friendships were guildmates and some of them were real life we planned trips skiiing camping hell 20 of us went barhopping in Dublin for 8 days. I dont think they would happen without the guild aspect of Everquest.
From the sound sof it a lot of people so far feel time is what it takes. Those moments where you wait 5 or 10 mintues for a mob to spawn to sit and chat kill mob and do it again. I agree I think back to how much our guild mates chatted waiting for raids to form and stuff and it was a lot of different topics both game and life.
Yeah, seems to be the trend that most are talking about is to slow the game down, stop with the dungeon runs and the twitch gameplay and insta mana regen.