Tuhart said:Not fused on crafting, seems to be a necessary evil sometimes and pulls you away from the main game of exploring and adventuring.
My view point is the exact opposite :) I do love how MMOs can bring many player types together. I am an explorer and adventurer but in the wee hours of the morning when not many peoeple are around I like to craft (like now). Crafting should be an optional activity (a player should not feel like they have to craft to have the best gear), yet it should be rewarding for those who like it.
For me crafting (if implemented well) enhances the main game and it brings people together.
If you go adventuring to kill a mob you have to move, aim, fire so to me there is some skill it that.
What skill is there in crafting, ppl bring you items and you craft the object for them, no skill , so why does the no skilled sword (crafted) have to be as good as the sword from combat which took some skill to obtain?
If one of the feature brad talked about is using old gear to regrade or enhance your current armor, then crafters will be having a ball..(if its part of the process or just dropped gear? who knows..) But what is crafting with out harvesting????
Azraell said:If one of the feature brad talked about is using old gear to regrade or enhance your current armor, then crafters will be having a ball..(if its part of the process or just dropped gear? who knows..) But what is crafting with out harvesting????
Exactly Az, you have to have a good harvesting system too! ;)
I'm of the mindset that in order to make crafting important and long lasting, you have to make it difficult. Everyone having the ability to level every craft or profession on mutiple alts or accounts, removes the interdependence that i think is really important. You can't allow players to be self sufficient and also have meaningful crafting. It should really be a guild effort in terms of material acquisition and distribution.
One of the ways FFXI tackled this, at least early on, was by having all the best armor that dropped from world bosses and raids be what they called "cursed". It essentially needed an equal component from a crafter to combine with and uncurse before it could be worn. This meant that crafting was always important because otherwise all those ultra rare drops were basically junk in your inventory until you found a crafter to make you the piece you needed.
Tuhart said:If you go adventuring to kill a mob you have to move, aim, fire so to me there is some skill it that.
What skill is there in crafting, ppl bring you items and you craft the object for them, no skill , so why does the no skilled sword (crafted) have to be as good as the sword from combat which took some skill to obtain?
Can we be complely honest for a sec and mention that MOST MMOs combat involves clicking on a mob, turning on auto attack, and/or pushing 3 other buttons? How much skill did a rogue really need in classic EQ? How hard is it really for the cleric to have the tank targeted and push heal when the health bar goes down? Yes there's some rhythm and a timing to it, but until a combat system like skyrim finds it's way into an MMO, it's not exactly rocket surgery until you get to end game.
I understand if you don't like it. That's fine, but saying "there's no skill" isn't fair when there's barely skill in what you're comparing to. The only class in any MMO that really depends on skill more than gear so far is the classic EQ bard, and to a lesser extent, the enchanter.
I do hope that changes with this game.
I still think crafting needs to be tiered in a way so one person can not do it all, players must choose a path in which to specialize. Maybe at max level, they can choose one more to specialize in, making max level have additional things to keep them involved.
Secondly, I think ingredients for the most part, needs to be collected out in the world and not all bought from a game vendor. (Mob drops, gathering, fishing, harvesting, player crafted, etc.) I highly recommend a cross dependancy of other players is always needed, keeping in-game activity and tradeskilling alive.. Example of what I mean, lets say one player specializes in Gathering and is able to obtain a rare ingredient. The other person specializes in Alchemy, and relies on player 1 for the rare ingredient to make the upper potions. Person specializing in Alchemy makes a brewed ingredient that a person specializing in spell research needs... etc... This is in simple form, but showing you what I mean by cross dependancy.
Finally, lets make "fishing" actually mean something in this game. I am not talking about just for ingredients either. I would love to know that each time you throw the line you have a % chance to hook something rare (maybe inside a fish). Archeage did this well and if you were lucky enough, snagged rustic chests that had varying levels of rare goods. Sometimes players need to take a break from the "rush" or "hardships" of the game and do something relaxing like fishing. Knowing it can mean something significant to the game would finally make this side skill meaningful for once.
*edit- to some of the comments above, I do not think tradeskilling should equal "best" items in the game. They can be good for sure, and a great option for those less fortunate to compete at high level, but not as good as what drops out in the world. There needs to be mystery and danger about the world that lurks in everyone's mind. Knowing the best lies out there will always keep the game mentally where it needs to be. Tradeskillers will still be important and remain busy with this option...
@ Aldie
I remeber those. The abjuration piece would drop which would be used to purify cursed gear made by a crafter that was unwearable until purified. The gear was high end items that crafters could make but you had to get the abjurations from Notorious Monsters, Usually Hyper Notorious Monsters. These abjurations were rare/ex, which meant while you could make or buy or trade the cursed items, the abjurations were not (bind on pick up). You will notice that there are regular and -1 versions of the cursed gear. When purified they become regular and +1 versions of the purified versions. The -1 cursed haveing a smaller chance to proc durring the crafting process (ie more reare). So to get the best version it was a rare abjuration drop combined with a rare cursed crafting result.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:Abjurations
While I really like a system like this, I still wouldnt want it to be the only way to get the "best" gear. I still would like to see just straight gear drops that are the best as well. This could be done through many combinations of side grades/ situational gear. Though the implimintation was mostly poor. I like the way that FFXIs sky worked. As you can see from the link some of those abjurations dropped from sky. But in the case of Sky they were for the most part trumped by the direct drops from the sky gods. So maybe something along those lines only equall in power, yet different.
Ultimately though I still favor a 4 way split on gear aquisition at endgame: 25% from epic quests, 25% from high end dungeons, 25% from high end crafted, and 25% from raids. And mix it up, it would be very different which gear slots were from which category of aquisition per class/spec/aura/etc
Arskien said: I think this is what Raidin was getting at with the adding time and risk to crafting. Where a problem starts to crop up is when the mats to make items are too cheap, too easy to come by, or combines work 100% of the time. With the right variables, you can put risk into crafting. Also, I'm not a big crafter, I prefer adventuring. However, like Amsai, I respect the objective need of crafters for immersion, and have always liked having my "go to guys" in game. In EQ, I actually did basically zero crafting, but I sure knew who made the good bow/arrows!
You're partially correct on my meaning. I want crafting material rarity, I want expensive materials, I want failed combines, but, I'm more in line with Dekaden's later posts on the trivialization of adventuring gear, and, I know you guys came to an agreement/understanding and I'm really enjoying your and Dekaden's back and forth (was busy yesterday so apologies on rejoining the party late). A lot of great ideas there which I believe would curb my fears in a perfect MMO world. However... the "risk" I am speaking of is not only rarity of items, but the "risk of death" as you stated - or what the "risk of death" entails - I'll explain below.
Arskien said: And as for:
"Oh but then they didn't go risk death!" Yeah I don't see that as a good argument against crafting because they also didn't risk life. Their combat skills did not go up. Their level did not go up. They did not lose exp but they did not gain it either. That's comparing apples to oranges, and a non starter argument to me.
I don't disagree with your points here, and, I could care less if a crafter ever dies; however, I want crafting to require adventuring because of how it ultimately benefits Pantheon. Requiring adventuring for a crafter would be in place to avoid trivializing adventuring gear, while making crafting gear be able to be relevant and viable. Now, why shouldn't all the crating mats that would create equipment that is comparable to adventuring gear be purchasable? Well, again, because as Dekaden said, unless the mats were as rare as the FBSS you camped for 7 days without luck, the crafted gear will trivialize the adventuring. But let's assume you're correct that is the case and crafting materials are "that" rare.... why still wouldn't I want them purchasable?
I'm thinking of Pantheon's longetivity. If Pantheon is successful there will be RMT which will be unavoidable. If someone could purchase an Adventuring Breastplate with RM, it sucks, but the effects aren't widespread. If someone can max a crafter at adventuring level 1 with RM and create Crafted breastplates that are on par or better than Adventuring Breastplates from purchasing rare crafted materials with RM which then could flood the market, cause inflation, mess up supply/demand, etc. then it becomes a major problem. So unless raising crafting would require time in the adventuring sphere, or obtaining the materials would, the gold farmers/RMTs would move to crafting in Pantheon. I know a game shouldn't be designed with the idea of restricting RMT at the sake of gameplay, but I think there is a dual benefit here of adding depth/value to crafting by allowing crafting to be on par/better than adventuring gear while not trivializing adventuring gear and also having the side effect of slowing (won't ever stop it) RMT.
And I believe an easy safeguard to curbing RMT and to avoid trivializing adventuring gear would be to require some of the suggestions I mentioned in my previous post along with yours and Dekaden's later posts.
Great post Raidin. I really like the idea brought up earlier of the level gap for that reason. A level 50 can make gear for a level 10, but the stats wash out compared to when a level 10 makes level 10 gear. I think that is by far the single best idea in this thread.
I'm way more worried about the RMT people buying things like the Blade of Destruction from the Avatar of War for their level 10 than I am worried about a market flooded with crafting gear, but I do fear them both.
The problem I have with curbing RMT with the items itself is that it hurts legitimate play styles. While I understand why others dislike twinking, it doesn't bother me. If you're twinking your own alt, you already pushed through on one character. If you're being twinked by a friend, it might bother me a bit but ultimately I still don't care.
But put in the level gap for gear? Now you've nipped all 3 problems in the bud, and encourage new crafters even in the late game. Also, it doesn't stop higher levels from starting a new craft at end game, it just makes their "learning gear" less valuable, which doesn't matter at that point anyhow since they're high enough in level to have money from other sources.
I also think everyone should be able to do every tradeskill, but the time sink should make it completely unrealistic. I don't like games that say "only 2 ever no matter what" and I also don't like "I did everything with ease." If there is a huge time sink, and it takes months or years of real time to master, then it becomes self limiting without arbitrary mechanics being added. A super rediculousl nerd with no life might choose to learn 4 skills, or all of them even, after years of work, and have their super nerd cred for spending 4 years maxing crafting on all skills, and that's fine with me, as long as it's SO impractical to do that, that this person is an outlier and has actually accomplished something amazing.
What I DEFINITELY do NOT want to see in this game, for any skill at all, including crafting, is "well I got tired of this, so now I will spend 1000 plat to unlearn my skills and put the points in other skills instead" the way you can respect in other games. Once you've worked on a skill, it's yours now. If you want new skills, start them up or role a new alt.
Another thing I wouldn't mind is penalty for lack of use. In the real world, if you don't use it, you lose it. Why not in this world too? After x amount of time of no use, your crafting exp begins to regress. Go long enough without crafting and you actually de-level. You can get it back, just like lost exp on death. Bam, death penalty style punishment for crafting. Done.
If the rare drop materials are as rare as the FBSS itself, how is this RMT person going to find enough of them to "flood the market"? Also what benefit would this have for the RMT person? In theory the FBSS rare drop material should be about as useful and expensive as the FBSS itself, so what motivation would he have to do that? I'm against RMT but I simply don't think its as big of a problem as you guys think, mostly because you've probably played P99 and its a cesspool for it. Part of the reason p99 RMT is so bad is because the game sat in Kunark for like 7 years, that's not gonna happen with Pantheon.
I don't see why a level 50 shouldn't make the same gear for a level 10 that a level 10 should make, if you start to see level 50 crafters putting up 100s of pieces of gear and flooding the market, then the developers didn't make the component for that rare enough by far.
I just think you guys are trying to solve problems based on the assumptions of other games, that gear will be super common and so will crafting materials. I honestly hope that there will be no resource gathering node system, but if there is, the items you craft with JUST THOSE MATERIALS must not be adventure gear.
Rallyd said:If the rare drop materials are as rare as the FBSS itself, how is this RMT person going to find enough of them to "flood the market"? Also what benefit would this have for the RMT person? In theory the FBSS rare drop material should be about as useful and expensive as the FBSS itself, so what motivation would he have to do that? I'm against RMT but I simply don't think its as big of a problem as you guys think, mostly because you've probably played P99 and its a cesspool for it. Part of the reason p99 RMT is so bad is because the game sat in Kunark for like 7 years, that's not gonna happen with Pantheon.
I don't see why a level 50 shouldn't make the same gear for a level 10 that a level 10 should make, if you start to see level 50 crafters putting up 100s of pieces of gear and flooding the market, then the developers didn't make the component for that rare enough by far.
I just think you guys are trying to solve problems based on the assumptions of other games, that gear will be super common and so will crafting materials. I honestly hope that there will be no resource gathering node system, but if there is, the items you craft with JUST THOSE MATERIALS must not be adventure gear.
A level 50 can make the same gear as a level 10 - it just won't benefit the buyer of the proper level as much. A role playing way to look at it. The level 50 making level 10 gear is 'beneith' them so they don't do as good a job, whereas the person of proper level knows exactly what the buyer of the same level needs because it's current to them.
Whether the materials are rare or not is somewhat irrelevant since you want to promote crafting and skill ups as something viable, not simply making "the best." Not everyone will have or can afford the best, but if you give an edge to crafters selling items to buyers of similar level you build in some future proofing as well as value to 'skilling up'. Actually, if special gear isn't super common it places MORE emphasis on something like a bonus system since the most common gear will be crafted.
Also should have mentioned in my original post - the level can be player level or crafting skill level, up to the devs to figure that out. Might even be able to make it a combo. Actual level + skill level dictates the bonus, that sort of thing.
Arksien said:Bots are a good point to bring up. Most mats should come from drops, not harvest nodes. If there are harvest nodes, I don't think many if any should be in "safe" spots. It'd also be nice if they had a truly random spawn loc so a bot can't just know where to port to and safely loot.
If we do go the mostly consumables route, though I'd prefer we don't, I could easily see many of those idems coming from nodes, which I'm again not sure is a historically good idea. Maybe a fun mechanic where consumable nodes spawn mobs if you loot too many in a row in a short time? That would weed out who's a bot and who's grouping through the zone real quick!
Age of Conan has a system like this where there's a random chance of a mob spawning to interrupt your harvesting. Minor annoyance to players, completely ineffective against bots. Generally people would use a necomancer/pet class and kill the mob, go back to bot-harvesting. In the rare case that they died they simply respawned, remade their pets and restarted harvesting - it's amazing how complex some of the bots are. One would even log out if someone was in a certain radius or received too many messages (I assume to get around a GM checking if the person was a bot or not).
Canno said:Arksien said:Bots are a good point to bring up. Most mats should come from drops, not harvest nodes. If there are harvest nodes, I don't think many if any should be in "safe" spots. It'd also be nice if they had a truly random spawn loc so a bot can't just know where to port to and safely loot.
If we do go the mostly consumables route, though I'd prefer we don't, I could easily see many of those idems coming from nodes, which I'm again not sure is a historically good idea. Maybe a fun mechanic where consumable nodes spawn mobs if you loot too many in a row in a short time? That would weed out who's a bot and who's grouping through the zone real quick!
Age of Conan has a system like this where there's a random chance of a mob spawning to interrupt your harvesting. Minor annoyance to players, completely ineffective against bots. Generally people would use a necomancer/pet class and kill the mob, go back to bot-harvesting. In the rare case that they died they simply respawned, remade their pets and restarted harvesting - it's amazing how complex some of the bots are. One would even log out if someone was in a certain radius or received too many messages (I assume to get around a GM checking if the person was a bot or not).
Maybe, but assuming this game has tough mobs that can't be soloed and death penalties, we shouldn't see this problem. If the mob spawns, the bot can't solo. If the bot dies, it needs to run naked back to its body, where said mob is now standing guard. If someone makes a group of bots, they now become much easier to track because it adds variables that the game can auto scan for and red flag. Legit groups might trip the flag at times, but all it takes is a GM popping by to check in and see they're real then move on.
Yes, someone somewhere could theoretically write a script that can ask for help with a rez, tip the rezzer, shoot the **** with the GM, etc. But it wouldn't be a plague because anyone with that much time on their hands would probably put their efforts to use elsewhere when they realize cheating just became a bigger time sink than playing straight.
There will always be cheaters, but the reason it's easier to cheat in easy games is because said games are easy. Done well, this game shouldn't have trouble minimizing bots.
Rallyd said:If the rare drop materials are as rare as the FBSS itself, how is this RMT person going to find enough of them to "flood the market"? Also what benefit would this have for the RMT person? In theory the FBSS rare drop material should be about as useful and expensive as the FBSS itself, so what motivation would he have to do that? I'm against RMT but I simply don't think its as big of a problem as you guys think, mostly because you've probably played P99 and its a cesspool for it. Part of the reason p99 RMT is so bad is because the game sat in Kunark for like 7 years, that's not gonna happen with Pantheon.
I just think you guys are trying to solve problems based on the assumptions of other games, that gear will be super common and so will crafting materials. I honestly hope that there will be no resource gathering node system, but if there is, the items you craft with JUST THOSE MATERIALS must not be adventure gear.
Rallyd,
I agree with your first paragraph. However, if crafting gear was ultimately "the best" it would benefit the RMT more as they could create the best-in game gear with RMT with no challenge. It's not that I think it will be a "huge" problem - but I'd rather avoid it becoming one.
And, for your second paragraph, I don't think they will be super common, and most definitely hope they wont be. I do like your point on the resource node gathering though to non-adventuring gear.
Kilsin said:How much do you like crafting in MMORPGs, is crafting something you expect to be in-game and how important do you think it is for the game even if you don't craft? :)
There has been a lot of great ideas in this thread, Kilsin thanks for getting it started!
Personally, I think crafting should never be forced on anyone. With that, I don't think every player character (type) should be a master crafter.
For example, should the fighter be crafting magical weapons... no. Should a wizard (enchanter personally) be crafting magic weapons, potions, etc. You bet, in fact certain classes should have added bonuses for crafting magical items. Should a ranger be able to craft poison tipped arrows or some sort of enhanced arrow, you bet. Should that fighter be able to craft a sword that has awesome durability, of course! While gear should never be the end all be all for a game, it should have a significant value.
With that, I wouldn’t want to see every Tom , Dick , and Harry crafting epic end game items if it is a truly player driven economy. This would lend itself to some of the ideas of going on about an epic quest to craft a magical weapon for those wanting to craft/enhance/create that epic weapon, though.
These are just some of my thoughts, but as a player who loves crafting, I would love to see a robust crafting system as part of the system even if it is after launch.
J
JoshuaLLFE said:Kilsin said:How much do you like crafting in MMORPGs, is crafting something you expect to be in-game and how important do you think it is for the game even if you don't craft? :)
There has been a lot of great ideas in this thread, Kilsin thanks for getting it started!
Personally, I think crafting should never be forced on anyone. With that, I don't think every player character (type) should be a master crafter.
I mostly agree with this. Perhaps some crafts are only open to certain classes/religions similar to how it was in EQ. Not every race can be very class, so maybe not every class can be every craft on the same logic. This would also allow for a more social need for crafting.
[Blockquote]
For example, should the fighter be crafting magical weapons... no. Should a wizard (enchanter personally) be crafting magic weapons, potions, etc. You bet, in fact certain classes should have added bonuses for crafting magical items. Should a ranger be able to craft poison tipped arrows or some sort of enhanced arrow, you bet. Should that fighter be able to craft a sword that has awesome durability, of course! While gear should never be the end all be all for a game, it should have a significant value.
Again largely agree. If it makes sense that anyone could do it (like crafting leather armor) then everyone should do it. But maybe monks are better at making leather than everyone else. Maybe rangers make the best bows/arrows, but if they want the bow enchanted, they need to ask a chanter for help. Maybe if they want poison tip arrows, they need to ask their rogue friend to make poison for them. Maybe everyone can make swords, but warriors make the best ones. This line of thinking makes crafting varied, social, and will keep it from getting stale.
I guess this would open up the potential for theft, but I'm not super worried about that. It's pretty easy to prove the theft if you petition a GM who can look back at the chat logs, and simply give you your item back/ban the thief.
With that said, maybe there could be a mechanic similar to how players used to do "multi quests" back in the days of epics, where one player puts their bow in the enchanting table in a trade-style window, then the enchanter opens the same table and can enchant the bow on said table. The bow owner can then put plat on the table once the enchant is done, and both players hit "finish." The bow owner gets the now enchanted bow back, the enchanter gets their payment, and it's all done in one neat transaction. If either player cancels the action, everything simply defaults back to how/where it was before the trade opened. Think of it as basically a trade window, except bound to a hard location and slightly more options available.
Arksien said:Canno said:Arksien said:Bots are a good point to bring up. Most mats should come from drops, not harvest nodes. If there are harvest nodes, I don't think many if any should be in "safe" spots. It'd also be nice if they had a truly random spawn loc so a bot can't just know where to port to and safely loot.
If we do go the mostly consumables route, though I'd prefer we don't, I could easily see many of those idems coming from nodes, which I'm again not sure is a historically good idea. Maybe a fun mechanic where consumable nodes spawn mobs if you loot too many in a row in a short time? That would weed out who's a bot and who's grouping through the zone real quick!
Age of Conan has a system like this where there's a random chance of a mob spawning to interrupt your harvesting. Minor annoyance to players, completely ineffective against bots. Generally people would use a necomancer/pet class and kill the mob, go back to bot-harvesting. In the rare case that they died they simply respawned, remade their pets and restarted harvesting - it's amazing how complex some of the bots are. One would even log out if someone was in a certain radius or received too many messages (I assume to get around a GM checking if the person was a bot or not).
Maybe, but assuming this game has tough mobs that can't be soloed and death penalties, we shouldn't see this problem. If the mob spawns, the bot can't solo. If the bot dies, it needs to run naked back to its body, where said mob is now standing guard. If someone makes a group of bots, they now become much easier to track because it adds variables that the game can auto scan for and red flag. Legit groups might trip the flag at times, but all it takes is a GM popping by to check in and see they're real then move on.
Yes, someone somewhere could theoretically write a script that can ask for help with a rez, tip the rezzer, shoot the **** with the GM, etc. But it wouldn't be a plague because anyone with that much time on their hands would probably put their efforts to use elsewhere when they realize cheating just became a bigger time sink than playing straight.
There will always be cheaters, but the reason it's easier to cheat in easy games is because said games are easy. Done well, this game shouldn't have trouble minimizing bots.
I think it'd depend on a couple things. Not saying it can't be done, just giving an example of where it was done and how it turned out. Type of resource could have harder mobs, length of time a person spends harvesting (lets face it, very few people will harvest non-stop for several hours every night :) ). Funcom's cheat detection was, at best, terrible - that lead to most of the problems.
I have no problem with harvesting nods for common things - for instance wood to build furnature/buildings/hilts/etc. Nothing special, just a base material. It's the more rare pieces that should be guarded and harder to obtain.
Hard to speculate though until we know more about crafting and harvesting. :)
Arksien said:JoshuaLLFE said:Kilsin said:How much do you like crafting in MMORPGs, is crafting something you expect to be in-game and how important do you think it is for the game even if you don't craft? :)
There has been a lot of great ideas in this thread, Kilsin thanks for getting it started!
Personally, I think crafting should never be forced on anyone. With that, I don't think every player character (type) should be a master crafter.
I mostly agree with this. Perhaps some crafts are only open to certain classes/religions similar to how it was in EQ. Not every race can be very class, so maybe not every class can be every craft on the same logic. This would also allow for a more social need for crafting.
[Blockquote]
For example, should the fighter be crafting magical weapons... no. Should a wizard (enchanter personally) be crafting magic weapons, potions, etc. You bet, in fact certain classes should have added bonuses for crafting magical items. Should a ranger be able to craft poison tipped arrows or some sort of enhanced arrow, you bet. Should that fighter be able to craft a sword that has awesome durability, of course! While gear should never be the end all be all for a game, it should have a significant value.
Again largely agree. If it makes sense that anyone could do it (like crafting leather armor) then everyone should do it. But maybe monks are better at making leather than everyone else. Maybe rangers make the best bows/arrows, but if they want the bow enchanted, they need to ask a chanter for help. Maybe if they want poison tip arrows, they need to ask their rogue friend to make poison for them. Maybe everyone can make swords, but warriors make the best ones. This line of thinking makes crafting varied, social, and will keep it from getting stale.
I guess this would open up the potential for theft, but I'm not super worried about that. It's pretty easy to prove the theft if you petition a GM who can look back at the chat logs, and simply give you your item back/ban the thief.
With that said, maybe there could be a mechanic similar to how players used to do "multi quests" back in the days of epics, where one player puts their bow in the enchanting table in a trade-style window, then the enchanter opens the same table and can enchant the bow on said table. The bow owner can then put plat on the table once the enchant is done, and both players hit "finish." The bow owner gets the now enchanted bow back, the enchanter gets their payment, and it's all done in one neat transaction. If either player cancels the action, everything simply defaults back to how/where it was before the trade opened. Think of it as basically a trade window, except bound to a hard location and slightly more options available.
Yep, that is pretty much on par with what I was thinking. Makes the game rely on its player base much more. My thought would encourage players to socialize and rely on those out there in the dangerous world and not have 100000 different players all able to make potions or enchanted armor.
wow couple of days away and this chat has exploded! nice to see
Something i am seeing, in this thread is the nexus between cratfing and the crafter. People being concerned that the crafter through their direct lack of risk, possibly by not having to kill said Ubah tough mob to get rare ingredient, should not be able to craft something that is on par with gear dropped from the zone. I have to say i don't like this concept as it is narrowly focussed on the premise that the crafter would only be crafting for themselves.
What i would like to see is a system that really treats crafting and crafters as a viable way to play the game. Reasoning, my partner and i love playing together. I am certainly much more exploration and adventure focussed and i am much more likely to raid for hours, tagertting gear and progression mobs. My partner loves crafting and harvesting. She loves being able to make things of value and importance for her guildmates. She will take the time to find rare patterns just so she can make them for her guild. So how does she fit into people's thinking?
My view, she is a guild asset. She should be sought after. She will never have the need to wield the 'Two hand sword of greater sacrfice' that she could only craft through gruelling quest lines and craft skill progression to be able to craft using mats of exceptional quality. But she wants our raid team to progress and will craft it so that our dps will increase so the guild can progress through the current zone.
So if everything she is doing is for the guild, and her sacrifice is great but different why shouldn't she be able to craft something reflective of that?
I would happily carry her to get the a drop that was needed. I would happily group with her if the guild was targetting crafting mats. I would hope our guildies would commit to help her with her crafting progression because they would knew it was going to be worth it for the guild. If you trivialise the craftable gear, there will be no desire to help someone lke her.
If crafting is as good and valusable as i see it could be - having a top end crafter in the guild will be of vital importance. It is another source for guild fame.
crafting like this would be social, reliant on friends/guilds and add depth to the game...
Immersion? i wonder often how many crafters in our fantasy world really would be out getting their own items. they would hire people or better still ask their adventuring friends to grab what they can or be on the look out for something particualrly rare that will assit them.....
Rare items/materials could be 'guild bound' and therefore only usable by guild members. Perhaps to have items of such quality drop in the first place you need a guild member with crafting of a prticular level?
once again thanks for reading
Amsai said:@ Aldie
I remeber those. The abjuration piece would drop which would be used to purify cursed gear made by a crafter that was unwearable until purified. The gear was high end items that crafters could make but you had to get the abjurations from Notorious Monsters, Usually Hyper Notorious Monsters. These abjurations were rare/ex, which meant while you could make or buy or trade the cursed items, the abjurations were not (bind on pick up). You will notice that there are regular and -1 versions of the cursed gear. When purified they become regular and +1 versions of the purified versions. The -1 cursed haveing a smaller chance to proc durring the crafting process (ie more reare). So to get the best version it was a rare abjuration drop combined with a rare cursed crafting result.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:Abjurations
While I really like a system like this, I still wouldnt want it to be the only way to get the "best" gear. I still would like to see just straight gear drops that are the best as well. This could be done through many combinations of side grades/ situational gear. Though the implimintation was mostly poor. I like the way that FFXIs sky worked. As you can see from the link some of those abjurations dropped from sky. But in the case of Sky they were for the most part trumped by the direct drops from the sky gods. So maybe something along those lines only equall in power, yet different.
Ultimately though I still favor a 4 way split on gear aquisition at endgame: 25% from epic quests, 25% from high end dungeons, 25% from high end crafted, and 25% from raids. And mix it up, it would be very different which gear slots were from which category of aquisition per class/spec/aura/etc
If you recall, that's exactly how it was. The best armor was almost a three way split between crafted/drops/abjurations. The best weapons were crafted/drops/relic quest.
Crafting was important because it was always needed. It was expensive and time consuming to level. It also had a high failure rate for high end items. Nothing like gathering materials for a month only to critically fail an item and lose everything.