Since Pantheon is going to be not only lore-heavy, but hopefully lore-friendly as well, what do you all think about naming conventions for the different races? It would be quite nice to have a list of how each of the races name their offspring, such as how Square Enix handles this with their races (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/63112-Race-Naming-Conventions).
I did a quick search on these forums, and so far it doesn't seem that this topic has been discussed in any sort of detail or depth (or at all, if the Search is to be trusted).
The game having proper cultural design is a good thing. I hope they follow something along the lines of Shihiro's suggestion.
That said, my first toon will be a Dark Myr named Venjenz, naming conventions be darned. If my count is correct, P:RotF will be seeing the 11th MMO incarnation of Venjenz, which all started with Neriak's most universally despised daughter, unleashed upon Norrath in May 2000. I will do my level best to be a scourge upon Terminus that is worthy of the name.
After the required name for She Who All Must Dread, I'll follow the cultural thing most likely.
Having an optional guide to name your character to fit lore I think would be a cool idea.
Speaking of naming your character, will GM's need to approve character names? I thought in the very early days of EQ all names had to be verified. I remember you sometimes had to wait a few minutes before your name would go through. It may of just been a slow automated process but I always believed they were being verified by GM's.
Gadgets said:If I can't be a Gnome named Gadgets then I think this idea stinks. But maybe I don't understand the concept being suggested.
Naming Conventions are more a set of guidelines than actual rules. IE: You aren't forced to follow them, but they explain how certain races come up with their names.
shihiro (& all) -
Great question, and one that I will be happy to delve into more fully soon (to provide examples of how we're currently doing that). I guess the shorthand answer would simply be "yes". The races, creatures, places and so forth will have intentional names applied to them, with rules or methods that are authentic to those things. That's a must for the integrity of the world, builds cohesion and makes the world credible. It's how our human history works.
Like I said I'd like to get a little more in depth for you guys. Over the weeked, if not sooner, I'll review some of the published lore (and maybe a little unreleased stuff) to show how we're actually doing that.
Sound good?
Gadgets said:If I can't be a Gnome named Gadgets then I think this idea stinks. But maybe I don't understand the concept being suggested.
You can absolutely name your Gnomes Gadgets. Naming conventions are simply guides for coming up with names, official or otherwise. They are not rules that limit those names to certain things.
Istuulamae said:shihiro (& all) -
Great question, and one that I will be happy to delve into more fully soon (to provide examples of how we're currently doing that). I guess the shorthand answer would simply be "yes". The races, creatures, places and so forth will have intentional names applied to them, with rules or methods that are authentic to those things. That's a must for the integrity of the world, builds cohesion and makes the world credible. It's how our human history works.
Like I said I'd like to get a little more in depth for you guys. Over the weeked, if not sooner, I'll review some of the published lore (and maybe a little unreleased stuff) to show how we're actually doing that.
Sound good?
Sounds good to me! I can't wait!
Istuulamae said:shihiro (& all) -
Great question, and one that I will be happy to delve into more fully soon (to provide examples of how we're currently doing that). I guess the shorthand answer would simply be "yes". The races, creatures, places and so forth will have intentional names applied to them, with rules or methods that are authentic to those things. That's a must for the integrity of the world, builds cohesion and makes the world credible. It's how our human history works.
Like I said I'd like to get a little more in depth for you guys. Over the weeked, if not sooner, I'll review some of the published lore (and maybe a little unreleased stuff) to show how we're actually doing that.
Sound good?
Sounds excellent!
Istuulamae said:shihiro (& all) -
Great question, and one that I will be happy to delve into more fully soon (to provide examples of how we're currently doing that). I guess the shorthand answer would simply be "yes". The races, creatures, places and so forth will have intentional names applied to them, with rules or methods that are authentic to those things. That's a must for the integrity of the world, builds cohesion and makes the world credible. It's how our human history works.
Like I said I'd like to get a little more in depth for you guys. Over the weeked, if not sooner, I'll review some of the published lore (and maybe a little unreleased stuff) to show how we're actually doing that.
Sound good?
Sounds awesome, thanks man ;)
Istuulamae said:Gadgets said:If I can't be a Gnome named Gadgets then I think this idea stinks. But maybe I don't understand the concept being suggested.
You can absolutely name your Gnomes Gadgets. Naming conventions are simply guides for coming up with names, official or otherwise. They are not rules that limit those names to certain things.
Cool! Sounds like a fun concept for those that are into it. I'm too simple to follow lore so closely!
*Necessary Disclaimer: I hope otherwise, but anything in this post could change before launch. Please read with that in mind.*
Good evening, everyone. Thanks for your patience.
I'm not going to flood your screen with books of information, but this should at least speak to the approach we're taking with 1) a playable race; 2) an important -- if rare -- NPC race; 3) a type of NPC throught Terminus' history.
For the unintiated, most people think of a naming convention simply as the structure or pattern of names that flow naturally from the collective identity of any persons, places, or such. I like to think of it as the DNA within a family of names. The identifiable, transfered traits that can carry tomes of hidden information, but all you really need is to hear or read it to know it, just like all you need to see is a face to say "she's part of the Gerhart family". Hope that makes sense and at least speaks to how we use them. Of course names usually have some kind of root in the story or lore, but they may just be the quiet DNA that orders the family of names.They may seem to run all over the map, but there should at least be a map.
Anthropologists may call it nomenclature; we--writers of fiction--call them naming conventions. I think it gives a nod to the front end intentionality, but if you can't tell I have no clue why they're actually called "Naming Conventions". So, while we do not have a linguist like Tolkien on the team to smith out an entire language for each race, it is still a very important -- but not binding -- methodology for generating names from an authentic source.
Away we go...
The Halfling's of Wild's End
So the Halflings have a somewhat unorthodox pantheon called the Six Wards (mentioned once I think in the published lore). We've not released the names or roles of the Six, aside from Kiren the Ward of Flame. Here they are:
Kiren, Ward of Flame
Doa, Ward of the Path
Sozot, Ward of the Wood
Kagae, Ward of Shadow
Masae, Ward of the Hunt
Phosbel, Ward of Joy
Without going into the roles of each, I'll note that the Wards are not traditional gods and the Halflings do not worship (read: serve) the Wards in a way that we might traditionally ascribe to religious practice. The Wards are sovereign over their respective offices, but they are seen more like extremely powerful guardians and guides rather than beings that mortals are in direct or dedicated service to. In keeping with that paradigm, Halflings don't pledge allegiance to one particular Ward for all their life, but rather seek to benefit from the host of them like a Human might seek to grow in certain virtues. Now, particular paths of life may inherently cause a Halfling to lean on one Ward or another more than the rest, but it still isn't driven by a sacred reverence. Also, it's one of the few pantheons that has an entire roster of "good gods", so to speak.
Additionally, Halfling social structure is made up like very large families of interconnected and fiercely loyal members. In fact, the Halfling words for "friend" are synonymous with "brother" or "sister" and so on, because they don't distinguish between a biological sister and a kindred female friend like most races. If they are loyal to you, you are like family to them. It is a deep, sincere and binding dicotomy.
"BUT I THOUGHT THIS WAS ABOUT NAMES"
Of course. So to get a Halfling name, you start with their gender and familial role. Most males have either Faro (father) or Bir (brother) contained in or as their entire first name, while females have Mara (mother) or Sor (sister) in the same. Then, usually, the last syllable of one of the Six Wards is added to a prefix of the biological parent's choosing. If that's confusing, let me give some examples and the formula used before you quit reading on me. Again, this method is still somewhat experimental and may change any number of ways. But it's a least a working method.
Sor Whyren (Young female + "Why" given by parent + "ren", the last syllable of Kiren, Ward of Flame)
Faro Sifae (Elder male + "Sif" given by parent + "ae" the last syllable of Masae, Ward of the Hunt)
Dybir Helbel (Young male + "Hel" given + "bel" of Phosbel, Ward of Joy)
Save yourself immeasurable heartache and resist the sudden urge to rush out and get a tattoo of any of these names because, as I've said, things may change. But that's the way we're approaching the Halflings at the moment.
Dragons
This is a much simpler explanation, because I'm not going too deep into the naming convention for dragonkind and deny you the adventure of discovering these things in the world itself.
When you read Before the Ages or the Age of Chaos entries, or even the third Keeping of Castigue, you'll notice that every dragon name starts with 3 letters, then an apostrophe, then the remainder of the name. Rok'Nhilthamos, Rok'Tsolfyensire, Tel'Nharssis, Rhy'Kafiros. The most straightforward yet intentionally vague way to explain the names given (or assumed) by these 4 specifically is that the pre-apostrophe, 3-letter portion is given based on rank or title. Strata of power, let's say. That's not a glut of info, but it sends a crack of light onto a tedious assemblage of letters.
Various & Powerful Mage-types Through the Ages
Again this is pretty quick, but throughout the centuries of Terminus' history there have been wizards, enchanters and the like who've reached such a rare zenith of power they take a new name, or modify their current one. There's a configuration to this that is based on when in the history they were alive. Simply, that aspect -- chronology -- corresponds with the number of letters at the beginning of their name. So a relatively recent and powerful mage might go by the name Ckru-Venoth, while an ancient master might be called Il-Drelloth. It's a simple but honorific way of ordering the mighty amidst the host of disciplines and sub-disciplines and thoughout the ages.
That's all I'm delving into tonight. Thanks so much for the interest, and I hope all that gunk begins to answer the question shihiro first asked well enough to satisfy you all for a time. Let me know if it doesn't, sounds terrible or doesn't makes sense. It's a thing we've got to be rigorous about, but still hold with a soft hand. I love details like this and the discovery that accompanies even the straight-forwardness of something like a name. For a fine name is better than silver or gold, and what truly is in a name?
Blessings.
"BUT I THOUGHT THIS WAS ABOUT NAMES"
Of course. So to get a Halfling name, you start with their gender and familial role. Most males have either Faro (father) or Bir (brother) contained in or as their entire first name, while females have Mara (mother) or Sor (sister) in the same. Then, usually, the last syllable of one of the Six Wards is added to a prefix of the biological parent's choosing. If that's confusing, let me give some examples and the formula used before you quit reading on me. Again, this method is still somewhat experimental and may change any number of ways. But it's a least a working method.
Sor Whyren (Young female + "Why" given by parent + "ren", the last syllable of Kiren, Ward of Flame)
Faro Sifae (Elder male + "Sif" given by parent + "ae" the last syllable of Masae, Ward of the Hunt)
Dybir Helbel (Young male + "Hel" given + "bel" of Phosbel, Ward of Joy)
Save yourself immeasurable heartache and resist the sudden urge to rush out and get a tattoo of any of these names because, as I've said, things may change. But that's the way we're approaching the Halflings at the moment.
This was excellent thank you.
A question though. While i undertsand the idea of the relationship/status prefix for the halflings as described above i am interested as to your thinking about where someone would become and "elder" and whether there is a status with age that would mean you could be known as "Dybir Helbel" while young and that your name may change to "Faro Helbel" after a certain age or event (fatherhood or other significant cultural event).
I ask because we are would all be creating characters at varying ages and stages of life and it would inconsistent for them to all be Faro or Dybir and having an understanding on some of these cultural nuances would deepen the naming (imo anyway)
once again ty