Podcasts were very popular but stopped at 2. I didn't want to jump the gun when I didnt see it in February/Marc/April, but now its been 7 months.
Updates are also getting more scarce. To be fair Brad did specifically say a substantial one is coming Aug/Sept. Just feel like - either something big happened (positive) or the VR team ran into something unfortunate.
I got a few friends to register and check out, but now when I try and chat them up about it, they are concerned its a Kickstarter situation all over, as they haven't seen anything for quite sometime outside of screenshots.
I am far more optimistic, but a conversation with someone today inspired this post. Did I miss something? What all is going on, and where are Joppa's journals/podcasts/videos/interviews?
P.S. I realize there is a lot of work being done, I am not pretending that they are doing nothing, I am just purely asking. Maybe I'm the only one.
Think of it like your favourite band. Would you rather see them constantly touring or in the studio producing new material?
Other than Kilsin, who we know doesn't do any real work, the absence of the VRI staff from the boards and social media is an indication that the team is very busy with their heads down working.
Of course I'm kidding, Kilsin. You've been doing an excellent job keeping the project visible in social media and here in the forums and we all very much appreciate your efforts.
Fingurs, you shouldn't let rumours or other people's uninformed opinions affect you mate, that goes for anyone until you hear it from our mouths, it is just rumour, fear-mongering, exaggeration or inexperienced/uninformed opinions. We are all working away extremely hard on the next big update, and we have stated a multitude of times that it would be a slow period until then. I understand waiting can be frustrating and people get impatient but when making a game of this nature, that usually takes ~5 years, downtime and quiet periods like this are completely normal and very important for us to concentrate on developing the game.
The podcasts were more for variety and testing the reactions of the community to see what you like and what you don't and what works best for us, I am sure they, along with the Dev Roundtables, will start back up sometime after the big update once the team has more free time, but I can't promise anything just yet as we are still working on content like that and it's not yet set in stone.
There is no reason for concern though, the next big update will show you and everyone else exactly how hard the team has been working and what amazing things they have achieved in this time, until then, we are on track and there is nothing to worry about. I wouldn't be interacting and engaging with everyone if there was nothing going on in the background, so I think the team deserves a bit more credit after everything we have done to turn it around.
On a side note, and this is nothing personal against you or directed at you mate, just using this post to make a general statement for all to read, these types of posts really do have a negative impact on everyone viewing them, I know it isn't intentional but calling out or questioning the team with "worrying" thoughts or demanding updates when there is absolutely no need or reason for concern, actually creates panic and worrying thoughts in others, it's a human reaction but one that isn't warranted at all. We love you guys and want this game just as much as you all do, so you can expect the same level of passion and dedication going into making the game as we get from you guy's supporting us and the game!
The team has done nothing to put this worry into anyone's minds, we have been working incredibly hard (as I have mentioned many times over the last few months) and we have been open and honest about our slow periods and estimated timeframes for updates.
There is a very small minority of people that pop into these forums or other forums/social media platforms every once in a while when they feel like it and demand updates or call the team out for answers and it does nothing but hurt the community and make themselves look bad in the process. The team will not give in to unsubstantiated demands. We are making incredible progress and once we have an update ready, we will announce it to you all as soon as humanly possible.
The update will be released as soon as it's ready, which hopefully shouldn't be too much longer now but until then feel free to join in on the forums and facebook discussions or follow any of us on twitter for instant updates when they are ready to be pushed live. :)
Well said Kilsin. We are indeed hard at work on the game itself, and a significant update slated for Sept/Oct. And we've been posting some screenshots, which I think show off some of our progress quite nicely. I really need to keep the team mostly on the game itself, but obviously not leave you guys out in the cold either -- it's a hard balance. That said, I think you guys will love the Sept/Oct big update.
I do like Celandor's analogy -- right now we need to spend more time in the studio -- it's not time for that world tour yet :)
Thanks all for your patience, support, and faith :)
Blown away by the response.
Is it possible to ask you to delete this post? In retrospect the title and everything is terrible for what I want for the game.
Thanks for responding, I think next time I will just PM someone or you Kilsin. THanks for the feedback - I wouldn't say they were being negative, but rather I didn't properly scale their expectations, so thats just my bad.
Rock on VR.
Convo said:
Really liked the last screen guys. Laced with nostalgia. That's the type of stuff I'm looking forward to seeing in the future.
I'm glad you like it mate, we got a great reaction to the last two and I have one more coming up this Monday that I am sure you guy's will like also ;)
Kilsin said:
Fingurs, you shouldn't let rumours or other people's uninformed opinions affect you mate, that goes for anyone until you hear it from our mouths, it is just rumour, fear-mongering, exaggeration or inexperienced/uninformed opinions. We are all working away extremely hard on the next big update, and we have stated a multitude of times that it would be a slow period until then. I understand waiting can be frustrating and people get impatient but when making a game of this nature, that usually takes ~5 years, downtime and quiet periods like this are completely normal and very important for us to concentrate on developing the game.
The podcasts were more for variety and testing the reactions of the community to see what you like and what you don't and what works best for us, I am sure they, along with the Dev Roundtables, will start back up sometime after the big update once the team has more free time, but I can't promise anything just yet as we are still working on content like that and it's not yet set in stone.
There is no reason for concern though, the next big update will show you and everyone else exactly how hard the team has been working and what amazing things they have achieved in this time, until then, we are on track and there is nothing to worry about. I wouldn't be interacting and engaging with everyone if there was nothing going on in the background, so I think the team deserves a bit more credit after everything we have done to turn it around.
On a side note, and this is nothing personal against you or directed at you mate, just using this post to make a general statement for all to read, these types of posts really do have a negative impact on everyone viewing them, I know it isn't intentional but calling out or questioning the team with "worrying" thoughts or demanding updates when there is absolutely no need or reason for concern, actually creates panic and worrying thoughts in others, it's a human reaction but one that isn't warranted at all. We love you guys and want this game just as much as you all do, so you can expect the same level of passion and dedication going into making the game as we get from you guy's supporting us and the game!
The team has done nothing to put this worry into anyone's minds, we have been working incredibly hard (as I have mentioned many times over the last few months) and we have been open and honest about our slow periods and estimated timeframes for updates.
There is a very small minority of people that pop into these forums or other forums/social media platforms every once in a while when they feel like it and demand updates or call the team out for answers and it does nothing but hurt the community and make themselves look bad in the process. The team will not give in to unsubstantiated demands. We are making incredible progress and once we have an update ready, we will announce it to you all as soon as humanly possible.
The update will be released as soon as it's ready, which hopefully shouldn't be too much longer now but until then feel free to join in on the forums and facebook discussions or follow any of us on twitter for instant updates when they are ready to be pushed live. :)
Crushed it.
On a side note, I've been waiting for the "new" Tool album for 10 years ><
Recent two screenshots (on the Facebook, dated August 10th and 17th) are a good step in the right direction.
Kilsin - it's not really "rumours or other people's uninformed opinions", it was the lack of updates on your site.
And we aren't asking for much. It takes a few seconds to make a screenshot (and, surely, over the course of a week, one or the other of people in your team will be in-game in a position where a decent screenshot can be taken), and it doesn't take much time to post it here or on FB either.
A screenshot or two per week would stop comments of this sort much more efficiently than posts saying "there is no reason for concern" ever will.
A picture is worth a thousand words, after all :)
Nikademis said:
Kilsin said:
Fingurs, you shouldn't let rumours or other people's uninformed opinions affect you mate, that goes for anyone until you hear it from our mouths, it is just rumour, fear-mongering, exaggeration or inexperienced/uninformed opinions. We are all working away extremely hard on the next big update, and we have stated a multitude of times that it would be a slow period until then. I understand waiting can be frustrating and people get impatient but when making a game of this nature, that usually takes ~5 years, downtime and quiet periods like this are completely normal and very important for us to concentrate on developing the game.
The podcasts were more for variety and testing the reactions of the community to see what you like and what you don't and what works best for us, I am sure they, along with the Dev Roundtables, will start back up sometime after the big update once the team has more free time, but I can't promise anything just yet as we are still working on content like that and it's not yet set in stone.
There is no reason for concern though, the next big update will show you and everyone else exactly how hard the team has been working and what amazing things they have achieved in this time, until then, we are on track and there is nothing to worry about. I wouldn't be interacting and engaging with everyone if there was nothing going on in the background, so I think the team deserves a bit more credit after everything we have done to turn it around.
On a side note, and this is nothing personal against you or directed at you mate, just using this post to make a general statement for all to read, these types of posts really do have a negative impact on everyone viewing them, I know it isn't intentional but calling out or questioning the team with "worrying" thoughts or demanding updates when there is absolutely no need or reason for concern, actually creates panic and worrying thoughts in others, it's a human reaction but one that isn't warranted at all. We love you guys and want this game just as much as you all do, so you can expect the same level of passion and dedication going into making the game as we get from you guy's supporting us and the game!
The team has done nothing to put this worry into anyone's minds, we have been working incredibly hard (as I have mentioned many times over the last few months) and we have been open and honest about our slow periods and estimated timeframes for updates.
There is a very small minority of people that pop into these forums or other forums/social media platforms every once in a while when they feel like it and demand updates or call the team out for answers and it does nothing but hurt the community and make themselves look bad in the process. The team will not give in to unsubstantiated demands. We are making incredible progress and once we have an update ready, we will announce it to you all as soon as humanly possible.
The update will be released as soon as it's ready, which hopefully shouldn't be too much longer now but until then feel free to join in on the forums and facebook discussions or follow any of us on twitter for instant updates when they are ready to be pushed live. :)
Crushed it.
On a side note, I've been waiting for the "new" Tool album for 10 years ><
Oh man, I used to love Tool, I haven't listened to them for years! Good example of patience though my friend :)
Aethor said:
Recent two screenshots (on the Facebook, dated August 10th and 17th) are a good step in the right direction.
Kilsin - it's not really "rumours or other people's uninformed opinions", it was the lack of updates on your site.
And we aren't asking for much. It takes a few seconds to make a screenshot (and, surely, over the course of a week, one or the other of people in your team will be in-game in a position where a decent screenshot can be taken), and it doesn't take much time to post it here or on FB either.
A screenshot or two per week would stop comments of this sort much more efficiently than posts saying "there is no reason for concern" ever will.
A picture is worth a thousand words, after all :)
"rumours or other people's uninformed opinions" was a different matter that was very accurate, the screenshots are completely different mate.
I count 10 updates on the front page and that's just going back to February, not to mention all the smaller updates and screenshots thrown in every now and then for variety, so saying there is a lack of updates on our site is not accurate mate. You can't define an update by whether it is visual or not, there are many ways to update someone ;)
A screenshot actually takes more time than you think, it isn't just a happy snap as we run through an internal build (it would be so much easier if it was lol), it has to go through several processes and then be checked by multiple people to make sure we are not giving away unannounced information, showing poor quality images that can have a negative effect on us, leaving ourselves open to be reviewed or critiqued on unfinished work etc.
We love updating you guys with videos, screenshots, blogs, dev roundtables etc. but this last few months was heads down and everyone working very hard to meet our goals and be able to release a much bigger and more significant update, which is on track to be released soon, if we continued with those other small updates, that wouldn't be possible.
Once this big update is released, we can go back to a semi-regular release of smaller updates until we need to bunker down again, so we appreciate everyone's patience as we only want to make the best game possible and sometimes we need downtime to be able to do that properly.
I think that fans need to realize that changes have been made internally at Visonary Realms. They have become a bit more structured and methodical in their design, and public relations. Time to deal with it, it's how real business's are run. Putting the devs in a position to defend themselves is ridiculous, I'm surprised they even waste resources responding to this kind of crap.
I would say the (unfortunate for some) reality is that game creators (especially those who are receiving pre-release contributions from fans and players) are starting to provide a much more "open" view of what they are working on and what is in the pipeline. You can look at pretty much every popular MMOish game that was announced/kickstarted/whatever around the same time as Pantheon and see TONS of updates. Star Citizen, Crowfall, Camelot Unchained, Shroud of the Avatar, etc all email me daily/weekly with what's going on. I can go to any of their sites and find tons of updates, videos, etc that are released on at least a weekly basis.
I am not stating all of this to complain. I'm just pointing out that it's the trend (and in most ways not a bad one). That being the case it's pretty easy to see WHY these people keep popping up and asking the same questions when you visit this page and see that the last update on the main portion of the page was from nearly a year ago. Maybe the view of the team is that they are creating an "old school" MMO and therefore are fine with an old school approach to community involvement. I also understand that Pantheon is a smaller team than most of those other games and that they are dealing with limited resources. It's just going to be a continual struggle for you guys to match expectations with reality in this regard when your "peers" are moving in a different direction.
My personal opinion in the matter, to be childish but serious.... Who cares really? You could record your devs 24/7 including personal hygiene related activities and you would still find people who would refuse to accept that as reality. There would still be dissenters spreading rumors and claiming imminent failure on social media and other forums. This game has already been written off by the vast majority of the community so at this point all you really need to do is release something awesome as a giant middle finger to those who doubt lol. Anything aside from that is fairly inconsequential. *shrug*
IMHO frequent updates are not a good trend in three problematic ways:
1) They work against the more conventional approach of building hype into release such that it peaks as the game hits shelves (so to speak)
2) It takes resources. Would you rather have 10% more game or dedicate 10% of the budget to creating updates and newsletters. Or to put it in the reverse, who do you trust is making a great game: a team that is so busy they don't have time to create updates, or a team that seems to have plenty of time to write updates and newsletters.
3) It works against creating mystery. Now if your game is just a clone of other games out there then I guess there's no mystery to be had. However, in that case I'd question the sanity of your marketing plan, trying to release a game with no differentiating factors in a market so overcrowded even big players are having to give away their games.
1.) While that may be true for AAA titles from established studios/publishers (which also are not really pushing this all the time updates thing)... For games where they are selling packages/subscriptions before the game launches the build up and hype along the way seems to contribute heavily to new players buying in and providing funds for development.
2.) This is true when you are dealing with an extremely limited budget and resources. In such a scenario doing something on par with what Star Citizen does would be ridiculous to even consider. Crazy amounts of videos and lore posts and concept sales and developer interviews etc would be a massive waste of resources. That said a more realistic comparison would be Camelot Unchained with which I typically get an email weekly from Mark Jacobs and a monthly update newsletter sort of thing. I don't think those really require copious amounts of manpower.
3.) Honestly the only reason for mystery in building this type of game is if it is in fact terrible or a clone of every other game out there. Even a small MMO is so vast you can't really "see it all in the trailer". If you have something interesting here you should be showing it off to create that pre-sale hype you were mentioning earlier. I think there have been far far too many broken promises in the MMO world for "it's a secret!" to generate any sort of hype.
*shrug*
But don't you think producing hype is a bit premature, Jezebel? I don't know if you followed the hype which was produced for EQN and Landmark. I was also extremely hyped for Landmark and felt like Calvin, waiting for his propellor beanie! I payed nearly 90 bucks for Landmark Alpha. Then it came and my propellor beanie was... umm... hollow and stale.
Hype isn't always a good thing, because it bloats expectations up to a point where they can't be met. When people turn their back on a game, they might not come back at all.
I am really, really looking forward to Pantheon. I am glad for every screenshot or video (of course!), but I don't think it is a bad thing when the focus is now on working, not feeding social media?
Duffy said:
But don't you think producing hype is a bit premature, Jezebel? I don't know if you followed the hype which was produced for EQN and Landmark. I was also extremely hyped for Landmark and felt like Calvin, waiting for his propellor beanie! I payed nearly 90 bucks for Landmark Alpha. Then it came and my propellor beanie was... umm... hollow and stale.
Hype isn't always a good thing, because it bloats expectations up to a point where they can't be met. When people turn their back on a game, they might not come back at all.
I am really, really looking forward to Pantheon. I am glad for every screenshot or video (of course!), but I don't think it is a bad thing when the focus is now on working, not feeding social media?
In my opinion, hype or not does not change how a game is perceived. Excluding of course hyping features that never make it into the game. Getting players excited about your game insures more people hear about it. No one tells their friends about a game about which they are indifferent. If a hyped up game is released that is sub par, lots of people are disappointed. If an unhyped game is released way less people are probably disappointed... because no one cared or bought it in the first place. I'm not sure how that is really a better scenario.
You didn't like Landmark? I thought it was a lot of fun to build some crazy massive structures. I haven't logged into it in forever as my gaming backlog is obscene and my play time these days is pretty limited lol. I like looking through the crazy stuff people build though. I think a lot of the disappointment there was the fact that they made some initial "Help us build EQNext!" comment and a lot of people seemed to buy in thinking it would be treated as an EQNext alpha and not a separate game. I think that's more generating hype for something that was never the plan than it is hype being bad.
Hype in the modern crowdfunded world is pretty much a necessity. As I understand it at this point with Pantheon they are not expecting to be able to finish the game on crowdfunding alone. So maybe they no longer care about people buying in or subscribing. If that is the case, hype is obviously less important than if it isn't. I still don't see hype as a negative in such a scenario it's just slightly less important. *shrug*
