So what has happened here ?
I see these Dev round tables happening with a lot of spotlights on different people and Ideas. These however don't bring the visual aspect in to focus for anyone. It was 2/23/2015 almost 2 months ago since any photos or concept art or anything appealing has been released.
Don't get me wrong the round tables are great for answering questions but lets face it round tables are just talk and nothing more honestly. The proof is in the pictures and video's. Things you can see, hear, feel. Seems we are tipping off track on what brought a lot of us back to the site.
~Chaam
I know I probably posted in the wrong spot
Transparency is good and was absolutely needed at the time you're discussing and I believe it's still the best practice with a crowd-funded game; however, this team has earned a little more slack for me to "trust" that they're working on something when they say they are versus the previous regimes.
A new update was projected by Joppa to be within a week or so, I would wait and see what that update brings before I'd introduce a sky is falling thread. If that update shows no improvement or trajectory/plan towards alpha, then by all means, bring out Chicken Little.
As they said in the most recent updates, they were in the process of making the transition to Unity 5. They also are focusing on quality over quantity with their updates, because having a large quantity of updates takes people away from the development process on a small team like Pantheon's.
It was also said in the most recent interview that the next big update will be coming in 7-10 days, and that was a few days ago, so keep your eyes peeled!
Well, truthfully, we haven't really seen anything really new in the client in quite some time. The same zones have been highlighted in different ways over the last few updates. I have been hoping for (and asking for) a road map for quite some time. Yeah they have converted to unity 5 and from everything i have read, it's not an inconsequential change such as changes to the shader compiler and script updates, etc. I am not terribly concerned at this time and like Raidan said, let's wait and see what the next big update offers before jumping to any conclusions. Unless i am mistaken, beer does that to me on occasion, didn't Joppa mention they were hoping for an early alpha within the next 9-12 months on the theoryforge stream?
Raidan said:
Transparency is good and was absolutely needed at the time you're discussing and I believe it's still the best practice with a crowd-funded game; however, this team has earned a little more slack for me to "trust" that they're working on something when they say they are versus the previous regimes.
A new update was projected by Joppa to be within a week or so, I would wait and see what that update brings before I'd introduce a sky is falling thread. If that update shows no improvement or trajectory/plan towards alpha, then by all means, bring out Chicken Little.
Sorry if you think the sky is falling. That's not at all what it says. It simply states thanks for the Round table and show us some new pic's. Don't inject something that's not in the post.
I never said they were not working on anything I listen to the Round tables to. I like yourself have been here for along time and will be even longer. Pictures say a 1000 words is all it says. To view something is eye candy for hope that we all already have.
Reht said:
Unless i am mistaken, beer does that to me on occasion, didn't Joppa mention they were hoping for an early alpha within the next 9-12 months on the theoryforge stream?
Alpha was originally discussed as being 4th quarter 2015 if I recall correctly, but I do remember hearing Joppa say 6-9 months on the TheoryForge stream which would put it at projected 4th Quarter 2015 if 6 months, but potentially 1st Quarter 2016 if it stretches to 9.
Reht said:
Well, truthfully, we haven't really seen anything really new in the client in quite some time. The same zones have been highlighted in different ways over the last few updates. I have been hoping for (and asking for) a road map for quite some time. Yeah they have converted to unity 5 and from everything i have read, it's not an inconsequential change such as changes to the shader compiler and script updates, etc. I am not terribly concerned at this time and like Raidan said, let's wait and see what the next big update offers before jumping to any conclusions. Unless i am mistaken, beer does that to me on occasion, didn't Joppa mention they were hoping for an early alpha within the next 9-12 months on the theoryforge stream?
Making the switch to a new Engine is a very big deal. The normal person would not understand. 99% of the gaming world don't really care how the game works or what engine it runs on they care about how it plays. Those people need love as well.
The biggest factor of any crowd funded project is knowing your crowd and to cater to 1 - 2% of your crowd will not get you the funds you seek. In the time it took to create this thread and reply to 2 of the posts a 1/2 dozen pic's could of been uploaded. Excusses mean little in the gaming world you know that.
PANTHEON = Best team ever assembled in MMO history (imo). What I do know is most of the time those teams are not always the best PR rep's in the business. That's why they put a PR rep in place in all games
So open your minds and be creative and stop being so shallow. You or me or the other person are just a couple of the many you have to satisfy along the way.
Chaam said:
Sorry if you think the sky is falling. That's not at all what it says. It simply states thanks for the Round table and show us some new pic's. Don't inject something that's not in the post.
I never said they were not working on anything I listen to the Round tables to. I like yourself have been here for along time and will be even longer. Pictures say a 1000 words is all it says. To view something is eye candy for hope that we all already have.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Chaam, I don't think the sky is falling, I was simply saying for you to be patient until at least the next release since it is close. When a thread is started with What Happened with 5 question marks ????? - it emphasizes pretty strongly that you think something is terribly wrong.
But, as Reht said, most of the picture/video updates that have been presented have been different perspectives of the same zone. I would be much happier with a Roadmap and Trajectory of an alpha release date with a specific timeline, which could highlight more of the internal workings. Even if the results can't always be seen in a graphical update, we here would still know that significant milestones are being crossed off the roadmap and then I believe supporters would be more ok with fewer graphical updates.
Chaam said:
So what has happened here ?
I see these Dev round tables happening with a lot of spotlights on different people and Ideas. These however don't bring the visual aspect in to focus for anyone. It was 2/23/2015 almost 2 months ago since any photos or concept art or anything appealing has been released.
Don't get me wrong the round tables are great for answering questions but lets face it round tables are just talk and nothing more honestly. The proof is in the pictures and video's. Things you can see, hear, feel. Seems we are tipping off track on what brought a lot of us back to the site.
~Chaam
I know I probably posted in the wrong spot
Chaam, this isn't the best way to approach this at all mate, you haven't been active for a while and then you make this your first post back. I think the tone projected in your post had something to do with the replies you received, I also read it as a "sky falling" post too, whether it was meant to be that or not, maybe it was in the wording and excessive use of question marks. It has been 7 weeks since the last graphical update (if you don;t include Joppa and Monty streaming zone building live every few days) and considering this game building process usually takes around 5 years with teams of 25/50+ developers, it really isn't a long time when you put it into perspective also knowing that we don't have anywhere near that amount of developers.
Posts like this really serve no purpose though mate and I don't mean to sound harsh but every week or so someone posts something calling the team out and demanding answers for questions that have either already been explained in detail or they ask for updates that have already been explained with rough release dates given and a small idea of what they will contain, if you had of been watching the Twitch stream, Twitter, Facebook, MMORPG.com or these forums, you would know that we have said we will be releasing a big update within the next week or two.
The team has posted several times that updates will be slowing down considerably during this busy time while we work on critical core mechanics and features like Combat, Classes, Abilities and 1-10 Levels in preparation for Alpha, these mechanics can not be rushed as they have a huge impact on the game as I am sure you are aware.
I understand a lot of you are desperate for information and we have provided many smaller updates to try and satisfy that demand while we continue to work hard on the all important mechanics and features, being a small team has many benefits but also a few limitations that we need to work within, one of them is if we take people away from these critical mechanics to make a time intensive video (any video we release has to be edited and put together professionally as it will be seen by the media and wider public, so we can't just slap something together and be done with it, it needs to be done properly which is time consuming and taking someone away from their main job), then Alpha and those mechanics get delayed and pushed back, which I am sure no one wants to happen but that is the reality.
So while the team is working very hard on some of the most important mechanics and features at the moment, I need to politely ask that we all show a little patience please while we work towards this release. As soon as we have something ready to show I will be happy to release it across all platforms as soon as humanly possible, we are as excited to release these updates as you guys are to receive them so please know that the team is working in over drive to get these out but the one we are on at the moment is very time consuming and we need to get it right!
The team and myself are really excited with the work currently being done on the game and we can't wait to show it off to you all, I hope that if everything stays on track I can get that out to you all within a week or two and remember in the mean time Joppa and Monty both stream live world building and sculpting session on twitch, which show off zones like Halnir while they are being built and moulded, which is basically a live graphic update every few days.
Kilsin,
With all due respect I have been active posting every week. Just because I do not start threads any longer because ever I do I get my hand slapped like a 3 year old about you put it in the wrong place does not make me any less active.
Again with all do respect my activity on these forums are such according to the release of information. I am going to try and keep this to a non rude factor and hope you will do the same.
Simply stated I ask why there has not been some bread crumbs of hope. Respect my opinion instead of blasting it like a forum troll. However all I asked for is an answer to a question. I will ask it again
1) Why has there not been any visual releases in over 2 months?
2) Why has everything went to these Dev round tables instead of text releases on the forums ?
I understand the switch over to Unity 5 is big under taking and a great choice by all involved and Kudo's for such a task at this stage in the development.
So with out blasting your negativity into this thread how about just answering or commenting on question 1 & 2
~Chaam
Kilsin said:
The team has posted several times that updates will be slowing down considerably during this busy time while we work on critical core mechanics and features like Combat, Classes, Abilities and 1-10 Levels in preparation for Alpha, these mechanics can not be rushed as they have a huge impact on the game as I am sure you are aware.
I understand a lot of you are desperate for information and we have provided many smaller updates to try and satisfy that demand while we continue to work hard on the all important mechanics and features, being a small team has many benefits but also a few limitations that we need to work within, one of them is if we take people away from these critical mechanics to make a time intensive video (any video we release has to be edited and put together professionally as it will be seen by the media and wider public, so we can't just slap something together and be done with it, it needs to be done properly which is time consuming and taking someone away from their main job), then Alpha and those mechanics get delayed and pushed back, which I am sure no one wants to happen but that is the reality.
Was that a slip up ;)
Well shut up and get back to getting my Alpha up and running buddy boy, tie the team to their desks if you have to.
I would imagine that the resources from the developers are probably being used on developing, rather than putting together promos. It's a small team, and it requires a lot of time to create the mechanics, world, and assets. Also, I think that as of lately, you'll find more PR effort outside of these forums as it would seem they're trying to broaden their reach.
Chaam said:
Kilsin,
With all due respect I have been active posting every week. Just because I do not start threads any longer because ever I do I get my hand slapped like a 3 year old about you put it in the wrong place does not make me any less active.
Again with all do respect my activity on these forums are such according to the release of information. I am going to try and keep this to a non rude factor and hope you will do the same.
Simply stated I ask why there has not been some bread crumbs of hope. Respect my opinion instead of blasting it like a forum troll. However all I asked for is an answer to a question. I will ask it again
1) Why has there not been any visual releases in over 2 months?
2) Why has everything went to these Dev round tables instead of text releases on the forums ?
I understand the switch over to Unity 5 is big under taking and a great choice by all involved and Kudo's for such a task at this stage in the development.
So with out blasting your negativity into this thread how about just answering or commenting on question 1 & 2
~Chaam
I am not sure what has got into you Chaam but I hope everything is going well for you mate.
If you post in the correct sub forum then I do not have to do anything, which works well for everyone as I can assure you I do not get any pleasure out of moving threads to their appropriate sub forums, the rules are in place for a reason though and blaming me because I am the one tasked with overseeing them is pretty poor mate.
Demanding answers and speaking in such an entitled tone is also not helpful at all Chaam and will get you no where. It is certainly not the right way to go about it if you desire respect. If you continue to make this personal and call the team or myself out, this thread will be closed in accordance with the forum guidelines, which can be found by clicking the link in my signature. I personally hope we can avoid that.
There is no conspiracy stopping us from releasing visual updates, Monty and Joppa stream live zone building sessions on Twitch regularly, you can see the building before we even release it as an update so I am not sure what you are upset about. I also explained how time consuming videos are for us and that it takes vital team members away from their role in developing core mechanics, which slow game development dramatically. Visual updates while looking pretty are not our main focus especially during this early pre Alpha stage, at this point in time we are heavily focussed on core mechanics and features that are not quite ready to be shown yet, we have said that we will release a big update in 1-2 weeks.
Just to touch on your Dev Roundtable point quickly, all Dev Roundtable information has been posted, discussed and for the most part originated on these forums, all information when it is ready is released on these forums first before any other platform and we release it as soon as possible. The questions we answered were asked by you guys.
@Zandil - It was no slip mate, we are working very hard on these core mechanics (which are very time consuming) so they will be ready for Alpha, Chris Perkins and myself have mentioned this on streams, MMORPG.com and here, Chris has also spoken about the focus of levels 1-10 in preparation for Alpha, we look forward to releasing this next update as soon as it's ready.
I've been away from the forums for a couple weeks because we had a major organizational shift at work that has amounted to high demands on my exceedingly short attention span.
Being very careful to step around the landmines laid out above - I will say to the original post... I was sort of expecting a bit of a dearth of content the first quarter or so of this year - as that is more or less what they said to expect (i.e. they are working on stuff, we might see less for a bit, etc...)
One idea that might be sort of cool is if there were a linked checklist or something somewhere that folks could look at showing things they are working on being ticked off as they make progress. It's not pictures or videos, but it's something concrete that could go along with the less concrete more conceptual conversations that happen in the round tables.
Wandidar said:
One idea that might be sort of cool is if there were a linked checklist or something somewhere that folks could look at showing things they are working on being ticked off as they make progress. It's not pictures or videos, but it's something concrete that could go along with the less concrete more conceptual conversations that happen in the round tables.
Yep, been advocating this for quite some time. Videos are nice, but at this stage they are kind of fluff if there are no systems in place and continually show the same stuff from different angles. We have seen rudimentary combat, chat and grouping(?). The chat and combat have been there for quite some time. I am not saying this to be critical of team, but I would much prefer to see a checklist of what's been completed, being worked on or planned; read more in-depth information/design docs/principles for systems that have been conceptualized (advance combat, looting, AI, questing, etc.); watch the twitch streams where we can interact with the team rather than seeing some polished video that really shows nothing new.
I don't mean to interfere here or anything, but the misunderstandings about what is going on here, perhaps need more clarification from the team. I would hate to see people being driven off by misconceptions. Let's circle the wagons and try to gain some clarity ..leave off the stereotyping and the names, and just please talk as friends and supporters of this project. The team did say awhile back that there would be less to show for awhile as they get further into the project, we DO know that within 6 to 9 months, we'll be able to actually help ..by testing. Let's not get all upset and instead try for more information that quiets fears and doesn't aggravate the situation more. :)
Cana
**edit typo
Reht said:
Wandidar said:
One idea that might be sort of cool is if there were a linked checklist or something somewhere that folks could look at showing things they are working on being ticked off as they make progress. It's not pictures or videos, but it's something concrete that could go along with the less concrete more conceptual conversations that happen in the round tables.
Yep, been advocating this for quite some time. Videos are nice, but at this stage they are kind of fluff if there are no systems in place and continually show the same stuff from different angles. We have seen rudimentary combat, chat and grouping(?). The chat and combat have been there for quite some time. I am not saying this to be critical of team, but I would much prefer to see a checklist of what's been completed, being worked on or planned; read more in-depth information/design docs/principles for systems that have been conceptualized (advance combat, looting, AI, questing, etc.); watch the twitch streams where we can interact with the team rather than seeing some polished video that really shows nothing new.
Agreed Reht, that would be helpful...and would keep the rest of us motivated for the project. All we can do at this point is wait in the wings and hope...
It's nice to see people posting their thoughts, ideas and frustrations freely for once. Too often when you post on official forums it just turns in to a massive, inbred group of fan boys who openly attack anyone who has a differing point of view. Now is the perfect time for some discourse about every aspect of the game.
Preach it, Chaam.
Ok i went thru the posts and decided to answer chamm's questions
1) Why has there not been any visual releases in over 2 months?
because the team needs to spend thier time actually making the game ready for alpha in a few months the updates we are getting are in the form of streams allowing us to watch Monty and Joppa while they update the world. you are right there are no pics or vids sitting on the site waiting to be looked at, because those pics are time consuming due to the team wanting to showcase the very best in those releases so the location as well as other features of the area must be perfect. this takes time, time the team has decided to use to work on the game. while they could just login and take some quickie pics and post em, the thought that subpar materials might make it out to other sites prevents them from doing so.
2) Why has everything went to these Dev round tables instead of text releases on the forums ?
the round tables always come with a posted synopsis of important items discussed during the round table and a discussion of one or more features for the purposes of clarification.
Thakorr said:
It's nice to see people posting their thoughts, ideas and frustrations freely for once. Too often when you post on official forums it just turns in to a massive, inbred group of fan boys who openly attack anyone who has a differing point of view. Now is the perfect time for some discourse about every aspect of the game.
Preach it, Chaam.
I could be wrong... but I think you may have just become the first official user of the term "Fan boy" on these forums...
Grats?
:p
Wandidar said:
Thakorr said:
It's nice to see people posting their thoughts, ideas and frustrations freely for once. Too often when you post on official forums it just turns in to a massive, inbred group of fan boys who openly attack anyone who has a differing point of view. Now is the perfect time for some discourse about every aspect of the game.
Preach it, Chaam.
I could be wrong... but I think you may have just become the first official user of the term "Fan boy" on these forums...
Grats?
:p
i do think i have heard the term used on the forums before usually refering to WoW players by non-WoW players.
also, while discourse is fine as well as expressing an opinion that is not what is happening here.
Thanks for all of the defense in my honor...
Everyone here knows I am and always will be PrOTF until then end.
Even if upon the release of the game I don't like it then so be it. I am and will always be proud to support it and its team members even the mates on the other side of the world.
Like I said it was just two simple questions
Much Love for all
~Chaam
Chaam said:
Thanks for all of the defense in my honor...
Everyone here knows I am and always will be PrOTF until then end.
Even if upon the release of the game I don't like it then so be it. I am and will always be proud to support it and its team members even the mates on the other side of the world.
Like I said it was just two simple questions
Much Love for all
~Chaam
No problem mate ..!
Even though we have a problem, & we can't talk about it. Thanks for all the personal support in tells. I know what all you mean.