DJay said:
This is an MMO that has to be made. I'm not into gimmicks and the genre needs to be saved from itself. If we can just have one quality mmo come to market that captures the social dynamic of EQ then it may make waves for future development. The whole demonizing of Brad is cute and the Vanguard situation was unfortunate, but really out of the hands of the developers. None of this matters when the game comes to market and its a success.
The videos show how much progress they have made and I have heard enough conversations with devs to know this is the game I want. So i choose to believe this over the comment of some internet naysayer.
You make a great point in saying this genre needs to be saved from itself. I don't want to do the whole "WoW does this or ruined that thing" I will say though, that WoW actually has probably inadvertently created an appetite for this type of game. I can honestly see it starting smaller like EQ and booming with its first X pac.
I also agree the whole demonizing Brad thing is dumb..... Truth is, if its good enough, those very people demonizing him will be playing Pantheon and praising him.
Xanier said:
DJay said:
This is an MMO that has to be made. I'm not into gimmicks and the genre needs to be saved from itself. If we can just have one quality mmo come to market that captures the social dynamic of EQ then it may make waves for future development. The whole demonizing of Brad is cute and the Vanguard situation was unfortunate, but really out of the hands of the developers. None of this matters when the game comes to market and its a success.
The videos show how much progress they have made and I have heard enough conversations with devs to know this is the game I want. So i choose to believe this over the comment of some internet naysayer.
You make a great point in saying this genre needs to be saved from itself. I don't want to do the whole "WoW does this or ruined that thing" I will say though, that WoW actually has probably inadvertently created an appetite for this type of game. I can honestly see it starting smaller like EQ and booming with its first X pac.
I also agree the whole demonizing Brad thing is dumb..... Truth is, if its good enough, those very people demonizing him will be playing Pantheon and praising him.
I don't care what happened in the past, "I will be buying the game, and not Brad's virginity." (Rattenmann - mmorpg.com forums)
No offense to the team, though the only reason my wife and I are supporting this game is due to the fact that no one else has the balls to make a game like this. It doesn't matter if it has Brad's or Gadget's name on it to us.
If you make it we will come.
I am and will remain supporting this game mainly because Brads tenacity has impressed me. He has something and he wont stop until he has built it. I was there for EQ, I was there for Vanguard, I will now be here for Pantheon 3/3 baby!
te·nac·i·tytəˈnasədē/noun
Why am I willing to put money down on Pantheon?
It's hope, or desperation, or maybe a little of both. As Velmeir said, we were wildly excited about Vanguard when it first started in development. Then, when the backing of SOE was announced, my heart sank. I'd played EQ from Kunark on; and I'd seen what they had done to the game. Unfortunately, my fears were confirmed, and by the time it released my hopes for what the game could have been had been shattered.
When EQN was announce almost 3 yrs ago, I was immediately excited. I had recently looked at Pantheon in passing, but was, and still am to a point, very cynical about what happened. But as time wore on, I began to get more and more suspicious about EQN, and began to feel like the wool had been pulled over my eyes. Then with the abrupt announcement that Sony had sold SOE; and people being laid off left and right, I watched my hope for that game evaporate before my eyes. As I said, I had glanced at Pantheon only sparingly up until that point. Why?
Well, I know this may sound a bit harsh, and Brad, if you read this, I don't mean to be mean. But my first thought when I saw the list of folks who'd been laid off, was "well, EQN is toast...but with SOE gone, at least they can't get their grubby mitts on Pantheon". I know most of us will never truly understand what happened those many years ago with Vanguard. Was Brad naively hopeful and trusted that SOE would let him release the game he wanted, even though they held all the money? A lot of us knew that wasn't going to be the case, but felt powerless to do anything about it; and felt a bit betrayed by the whole thing.
To be honest, I put my money down because I both hope that this will be the game my husband and I have longed for since EverQuest. Yet at the same time, I am leery and am not sure I dare hope that this time the game will start and end being made for the niche market that is dying for a return to a game with a community that cared, where actions and reputation mattered, and nothing was handed to you on a silver plate.
We actually are part of a gaming community with a LOT of people looking for a game like this. Most of them feel the same leery hesitation to believe in the game because of the past. However, we want a game like this so badly, we're willing to hold out hope, despite our suspicions. So Velmeir and I went out on a limb and became backers for two reasons. 1) So we could see for ourselves if this game will really be something we can get behind. 2) To relay what we find here to our community in the hopes of starting one of our gaming chapters here.
Anaksuun said:
Why am I willing to put money down on Pantheon?
It's hope, or desperation, or maybe a little of both. As Velmeir said, we were wildly excited about Vanguard when it first started in development. Then, when the backing of SOE was announced, my heart sank. I'd played EQ from Kunark on; and I'd seen what they had done to the game. Unfortunately, my fears were confirmed, and by the time it released my hopes for what the game could have been had been shattered.
When EQN was announce almost 3 yrs ago, I was immediately excited. I had recently looked at Pantheon in passing, but was, and still am to a point, very cynical about what happened. But as time wore on, I began to get more and more suspicious about EQN, and began to feel like the wool had been pulled over my eyes. Then with the abrupt announcement that Sony had sold SOE; and people being laid off left and right, I watched my hope for that game evaporate before my eyes. As I said, I had glanced at Pantheon only sparingly up until that point. Why?
Well, I know this may sound a bit harsh, and Brad, if you read this, I don't mean to be mean. But my first thought when I saw the list of folks who'd been laid off, was "well, EQN is toast...but with SOE gone, at least they can't get their grubby mitts on Pantheon". I know most of us will never truly understand what happened those many years ago with Vanguard. Was Brad naively hopeful and trusted that SOE would let him release the game he wanted, even though they held all the money? A lot of us knew that wasn't going to be the case, but felt powerless to do anything about it; and felt a bit betrayed by the whole thing.
To be honest, I put my money down because I both hope that this will be the game my husband and I have longed for since EverQuest. Yet at the same time, I am leery and am not sure I dare hope that this time the game will start and end being made for the niche market that is dying for a return to a game with a community that cared, where actions and reputation mattered, and nothing was handed to you on a silver plate.
We actually are part of a gaming community with a LOT of people looking for a game like this. Most of them feel the same leery hesitation to believe in the game because of the past. However, we want a game like this so badly, we're willing to hold out hope, despite our suspicions. So Velmeir and I went out on a limb and became backers for two reasons. 1) So we could see for ourselves if this game will really be something we can get behind. 2) To relay what we find here to our community in the hopes of starting one of our gaming chapters here.
Nobody really knows all the details of what went down with VG except for those who were actually involved. It sure did look ugly from the outside looking in. Some folks involved were certainly bitter - and they posted bitter stuff.
It would seem that Brad McQuaid's version likely goes something like this:
1) They dreamed big with Vanguard - in retrospect, too big.
2) Their funding dried up and they needed more
3) The place that offered more was SoE
I say that because I believe I heard him say (maybe in a boogie interview?) That going with SoE allowed the game to release - and that it wouldn't have without them.
Sometimes - if you want to dance, you don't get to pick your partners. The last girl/guy sitting on the bench so to speak.
Despite all of that, with the limited amount I played VG I saw the relation to EQ... in fact, having played VG and EQ side by side for a short time - I told friends at work that "VG was more EQ than EQ" at that particular point.
With smaller dreams, a dedicated staff, a dedicated community providing some funds... and a dedicated community accepting that they may indeed need to go get funds from outside sources (as they have said they may) - I think Pantheon will definitely be "More EQ than EQ is right now" - because while EQ is still has much more depth than other games - it pales in comparison to what it was.
It ultimately may not end up being everything to everyone who wants that "old EQ experience" - but it certainly promises to be the only game trying to be that... and thus, the only one that will come close.
Well, I know this may sound a bit harsh, and Brad, if you read this, I don't mean to be mean. But my first thought when I saw the list of folks who'd been laid off, was "well, EQN is toast...but with SOE gone, at least they can't get their grubby mitts on Pantheon". I know most of us will never truly understand what happened those many years ago with Vanguard. Was Brad naively hopeful and trusted that SOE would let him release the game he wanted, even though they held all the money? A lot of us knew that wasn't going to be the case, but felt powerless to do anything about it; and felt a bit betrayed by the whole thing.
He is looking for funding, so don't be surprised he don't contact his buddy Smed at Day Break Games and we start all over again in the way Vanguard went. I hope this dont happen, I hope Brad can hold out and remain a small gaming company.
Everyone has made very valid statements on why we support this game. It has to be done end of story. I for one am happy to see that even though it is tough as hell to drum up enough money to keep this alive there are people that are willing to give this game there own creative tools necessary for free. Free with there time. Free with there money. What does that say about this game? People need to eat, and I know some of the people working on this have there day jobs aside, but when I see that people are willing to do this out of there own blood sweat and tears, and worry that they might not get paid for awhile why wouldn't I support that? Does everyone realize that? Do they care? I have never in my life seen a group of creators come together on something like this. I think when you do something with your heart and soul without greed first it shows in your work. Don't you all agree?
Please bring this back onto the topic of "Why are you willing to financially support this game".
Visionary Realms Inc. is in no way associated with SOE/Daybreak and we have no intention of being affiliated with anyone other than a suitable investor that is a good fit for our company/game, we are actively seeking such an investor.
I will also kindly ask that we refrain from speaking about past issues that have no relevance to Pantheon e.g. Vanguard stories that are hearsay or simply untrue. As much as I loved VG, these are the Pantheon developer forums and we are here to discuss all things Pantheon with you guy's ;)
P.S. Thank you Carrera, you snuck your post in before I posted this and I appreciate the on-topic post :)
Xanier - I back it for the exact reasons you do.
I think there is a great team this time around. Having spent time chatting with and listening to the guys I have a great deal of faith in them and their vision for Pantheon. This is a team of people who want all those things you, and others, have touched on. For that reason I have, and will continue to, support them in any way that I can.
Oh, you want a non flipant response :) I would be lying if I said Brad's involvement wasn't a factor, but really I hadn't checked up on what he was doing since before the crowd funding effort. I really was jewelcrafting in Project 1999 when I tripped on something that made me check back and I found this site. When I did I went straight to looking to see what kind of game they were trying to make. It was what the developers said about the kind of game they wanted to make that made me decide to contribute.
Having seen the video game scene develop from pong and arcade games to ESO I have my own theories on why both EQ and Wow could be so popular, each in their own time. I think there's a whole culture of people who gravitated toward tough games, and not just video games and not just MMOs. People don't compete in the football or chess because the training is so fun. They don't play arcade games because they are masochists. EQ was popular because it appealed to those people who like overcoming challenges. They like the game side of the game. Wow was popular because there are a lot more people who just want a fun ride, much like they enjoy a book, movie or TV show. These two groups will never agree on what makes a great MMO because the fundamentally are attracted to different things.
The problem is the game industry doesn't seem to appreciate that games are art and good art can't be manufactured using a formula. It is like saying "hey if the Mona Lisa is selling for millions we can just copy it and rake in the money." It doesn't work like that. You can't just copy the plot of a great movie and make as much money as the original, you can't just copy U2 and make million selling CDs, and you can't just copy the style and mechanics of EQ or Wow and make as much money. That's not to say that you can't make a good game that's like Wow, but that if your goal is to copy Wow in order to make money you are doomed to failure.
Like all good art, what it takes to make a good game is to focus on making something you love, and if the developers tastes are half way decent then other people will like it too. Making something you love for the love of making it is how you make a great movie, write a great book, compose a great song, or make a great video game. That and hoping you can connect with enough people who like the same thing.
The fact that the development team isn't focused on copying the current market leader is a start. I supported them because having seen Brad in the past I think he is dedicated to making the game he wants to make and not just trying to capitalize on what is popular today. What remains to be seen is whether the developers can get the money they need, then manage the project to accomplish what they want within budget. I hope that they can, because the industry really needs companies that can show there is more than one way to appeal to players.
Short answer: somewhere between the OP and Kaydis' post.
Why am I willing to help support this game? I personally donated for two lifetime sub's. Thinking how I enjoyed EQ in high school, and thinking if Pantheon is similar in it's core belief's that I will happily introduce my son to it.
I also still believe what Kaydis and others touched on. That this game NEEDS to be made. If only for the sake of showing that there is an interest in this direction of a MMORPG, so other companies would consider doing it in the future.
Now that's not to say that I don't have high hopes for the success of this game. I do believe this could turn into a juggernaut of a game, provided it's made around the core concepts of strongly encouraging (if not downright requiring) grouping, through difficult/complex mobs and the creation/organization of the world. Mix in a death penalty closest to EQ so people have that extra motivation to want to group, and give players enough choice that we can show our skill as players and our qualities as people. Beyond Brad/Pantheon dev's having a similar direction as mine, my only other concern will be them having enough sense to BALANCE (not intentionally over-balance, after over-balance, after over-balance, constantly shifting whats overpowered until every class is blended) the game and then stick to keeping the game true to it's origin, which I know Brad has enough experience to know by now, so the only variable to be wary of is an investor wanting too much control.
When you build it, we will come, stay a while, and drag our friends/families in eventually.
Why do I support this game ? Simple, and for selfish reasons . The only MMOs I have ever enjoyed were made with the help of Mr Mithara . Right now I have nothing to play except strip poker with my wife, and that gets old since I always lose :( So ... I *need* for this game to be made :)
Jason said:
Why do I support this game ? Simple, and for selfish reasons . The only MMOs I have ever enjoyed were made with the help of Mr Mithara . Right now I have nothing to play except strip poker with my wife, and that gets old since I always lose :( So ... I *need* for this game to be made :)
I'll play with her if your getting bored with it :)
Zandil said:
Jason said:
Why do I support this game ? Simple, and for selfish reasons . The only MMOs I have ever enjoyed were made with the help of Mr Mithara . Right now I have nothing to play except strip poker with my wife, and that gets old since I always lose :( So ... I *need* for this game to be made :)
I'll play with her if your getting bored with it :)
Hahahahaha I bet you would ;)
Jason said:
Zandil said:
Jason said:
Why do I support this game ? Simple, and for selfish reasons . The only MMOs I have ever enjoyed were made with the help of Mr Mithara . Right now I have nothing to play except strip poker with my wife, and that gets old since I always lose :( So ... I *need* for this game to be made :)
I'll play with her if your getting bored with it :)
Hahahahaha I bet you would ;)
Good to have you back on the forums mate ;)
Zandil said:
Jason said:
Why do I support this game ? Simple, and for selfish reasons . The only MMOs I have ever enjoyed were made with the help of Mr Mithara . Right now I have nothing to play except strip poker with my wife, and that gets old since I always lose :( So ... I *need* for this game to be made :)
I'll play with her if your getting bored with it :)
A gentleman and a scholar this one is! What a good man!
Zandil said:
Jason said:
Why do I support this game ? Simple, and for selfish reasons . The only MMOs I have ever enjoyed were made with the help of Mr Mithara . Right now I have nothing to play except strip poker with my wife, and that gets old since I always lose :( So ... I *need* for this game to be made :)
I'll play with her if your getting bored with it :)
That escalated quickly!
Oh and GIEF MONEY FOR NEW EQ!! (please?)
I think a lot of us support it because we want something different. In most of the cases, Newer MMO's are trying to copy what had worked for WoW. But WoW just has too many years behind it for them to be replaced. WoW went from a semi normal MMO to something that caters to everyone's time. Which is great for many, but for us who want that classic MMO feel, it just isn't anywhere right now. So I think many of us hope that backing VR, will bring us that empty feeling we've had for years.
Xanier said:
Question 1- So I was reading a recent article about Pantheon and how with the collapse of EQN many are now eyeing Pantheon (I think the point of the article is sign we will get funding soon from a company.) but the article had comments, as they always do, in which people would post their comments. Some were very positive and encouraging and others were people who, understandably so, were a bit jaded because of the Vanguard release issues. As I read the comment it got me thinking about why I want to give MORE money for this game and that desire to help support Pantheon got me thinking about why are others here willing to give their money for a game that doesn't have a money backer as of yet and atm it's us who in a large sense are supporting the making of this game.
Question 2-The second question I have is, is this type of thing, when players are financially helping support the making of a currently un-backed game new or is it something that happens often?
My reasons for supporting this game financially are -
1-I believe in Brad. I believe there were many mistakes made with vanguard from how the administration worked to how the people funding the game got their nose in the wrong places leading to the release of an unfinished product. BUT in all that after reading Brads post, tweats and articles on what he learned from Vanguard and the humble beginnings of this game I am confident he has learned from the mistakes and it will help him and his team create a better game for all in this niche.
2- NOT GONNA LIE..... Nostalgia .... I wanna have nervous palpatations running from one side of the map to the other in the night time, I wanna play a game where twitch response and the best UI is not the determining factor but rather it's skill and tactics. I want bad pulls, bad cc'ing and groups not able to pay attention to have an adverse effect rather then run in, AE, Collect Loot and repeat. I want rares who are exactly that RARE and you better have your best face on to deal with them. In short I want what I felt the Golden days of EQ WITHOUT the needless time sinks.
3- I want a niche game like Pantheon that is NOT going to try to fill everyone's wants but is focused on its primary goal..... it's niche.
4- I want to play a game where skilled and MATURE players are conversing in a social way that's self policing and fun.
5- Probably most of all.... I want to play a game where I have to work my ass off to earn the best rewards and understand that if I can't get everything in the game ... that's part of it.
Since when did EQN collapse? I was just on their site - there is no mention of this. I don't think anything has changed with EQN.
Oh and I support this game, because I can afford to.
Trying to convince others without class/race/descriptions, is brutal. I wouldn't expect people to dive in just yet, which is actually a good thing. These guys have managed to gather enough (us) to get this far, once they have more shiny things to show off, will be cool to see what kind of attention it gets.
The multi-mana (whatever it will be called) a lone is LOL great for those who like people to earn their stuff, and be challenged/make gambles/avoid cookie cutter builds.
Now I just need to have that written down, with some cool photos of gnomes etc. to reel in the rest of the fish that will likely flock to this game.