It has already been stated that there will be fewer quest hubs in Pantheon than in games such as Vanguard, but how important do you think social hubs are? When EQ was young the East Commons tunnel was always full and people were buying and selling there . This was partially due to necessity due to lack of a global auction system but apart from the global chat the tunnel was a place to interact and socialize and actually see people face-to-face. Later on this area was replaced by The Bizaar and PoK and other such areas.
Sure there will always be global, zone, group/raid and guild chat systems, but how important do you think it is that Pantheon have social hubs where you actually see crowds of people standing there face-to-face just hanging out and doing their thing ? Is it important to you that such an area(s) exists to make the game feel more alive ? Or is the chat system and an effective LFG system more than enough for you? If there is crafting in game I can assume crafting outposts, starting cities and quest hubs if any will serve as mini social hubs, as will the most popular areas to hunt will be natural gathering spots, but what about one or two major social hubs such as a large tavern or what not that offer players a specific reason(s) that they would want to flock there in large numbers. Is this something that matters to you ?
I don't see social hubs as being all that important if there is global chat. There isn't much difference between chatting with someone in the same zone compared to chatting with someone on the other side of the world.
If there isn't global chat then social hubs will materialize whether the devs put in special places for them or not. Like you said, the EC tunnel was used(on some servers, others used north freeport) in EQ. I'm sure the Verant devs hadn't anticipated that to happen.
Always enjoys Jason's posts. So lets discuss.
I think natural social hubs are VERY important. But where they arrive should be dynamic. East Common's tunnels as a prime example. I think if given enough open game mechanics, Players themselves will define social areas and hang outs (ie: hubs).
Cities always provide a good backdrop... in early EQ you could not survive without a city, or rations. But there are some places, that just heuristically end up being the place. Ant hive - activity breeds activity.
NuggieOndahead said:
I don't see social hubs as being all that important if there is global chat. There isn't much difference between chatting with someone in the same zone compared to chatting with someone on the other side of the world.
If there isn't global chat then social hubs will materialize whether the devs put in special places for them or not. Like you said, the EC tunnel was used(on some servers, others used north freeport) in EQ. I'm sure the Verant devs hadn't anticipated that to happen.
Going to disagree.
There are moments in early EQ, where you feared dieing again and really wanted a social environment for moral support and to see what your peers had discovered, or found, or were wearing.
A place to come and inspect others.. and converse and actually get drunk. All while standing in a tunnel, or odd-ball vendor cart. To connect with the other Citizens of the realm, the other Fallen.
Chit-chating and actually socializing can be done while not playing, too...
The reason most seek out a Fantasy World, is to get away from reality, or work, or wife, or kids, etc. and immerse themselves into fantasy. Into becoming their Character... and the phone doesn't matter, the toaster doesn't matter, the door doesn't matter, your job doesn't matter.
Well, in most any fantasy books i've read, the social hub was usually the tavern. Maybe hanging out at the tavern could give you some sort of tangible perk. Perhaps a buff called "Well Rested" that is applied to you once you've been in the tavern for a certain amount of time. One hour maybe? Half hour? This buff could give any number of temporary stat increases. A well rested party is a party ready for adventure :)
Hieromonk said:NuggieOndahead said:
I don't see social hubs as being all that important if there is global chat. There isn't much difference between chatting with someone in the same zone compared to chatting with someone on the other side of the world.
If there isn't global chat then social hubs will materialize whether the devs put in special places for them or not. Like you said, the EC tunnel was used(on some servers, others used north freeport) in EQ. I'm sure the Verant devs hadn't anticipated that to happen.
Going to disagree.
There are moments in early EQ, where you feared dieing again and really wanted a social environment for moral support and to see what your peers had discovered, or found, or were wearing.
A place to come and inspect others.. and converse and actually get drunk. All while standing in a tunnel, or odd-ball vendor cart. To connect with the other Citizens of the realm, the other Fallen.
Chit-chating and actually socializing can be done while not playing, too...
The reason most seek out a Fantasy World, is to get away from reality, or work, or wife, or kids, etc. and immerse themselves into fantasy. Into becoming their Character... and the phone doesn't matter, the toaster doesn't matter, the door doesn't matter, your job doesn't matter.
Deadlyfury said:
Hieromonk said:
NuggieOndahead said:
I don't see social hubs as being all that important if there is global chat. There isn't much difference between chatting with someone in the same zone compared to chatting with someone on the other side of the world.
If there isn't global chat then social hubs will materialize whether the devs put in special places for them or not. Like you said, the EC tunnel was used(on some servers, others used north freeport) in EQ. I'm sure the Verant devs hadn't anticipated that to happen.
Going to disagree.
There are moments in early EQ, where you feared dieing again and really wanted a social environment for moral support and to see what your peers had discovered, or found, or were wearing.
A place to come and inspect others.. and converse and actually get drunk. All while standing in a tunnel, or odd-ball vendor cart. To connect with the other Citizens of the realm, the other Fallen.
Chit-chating and actually socializing can be done while not playing, too...
The reason most seek out a Fantasy World, is to get away from reality, or work, or wife, or kids, etc. and immerse themselves into fantasy. Into becoming their Character... and the phone doesn't matter, the toaster doesn't matter, the door doesn't matter, your job doesn't matter.
I agree with Hieromonk, i almost don't even really agree with global chatty channels, but the benefits outweigh the negatives. Social hubs are good for when you want to chill out and have a chat in a safe environment
Just curious but how exactly do the benefits of global chat channels outweigh the negatives? I see absolutely no benefit to a global chat channel...unless it refers to the trolls and all the stupid Racist, homophobic, idiotic crap that they constantly spew in said global channels. All global chats do is give a platform for Trolls, gold sellers and griefers to shine. Put in a good /lfg system (and not an automated crapfest like in Rift) to find groups and then use /say /shout (zone wide only) /tell /group /guild....there is all your social chatty needs right there.
NuggieOndahead said:
I don't see social hubs as being all that important if there is global chat. There isn't much difference between chatting with someone in the same zone compared to chatting with someone on the other side of the world.
If there isn't global chat then social hubs will materialize whether the devs put in special places for them or not. Like you said, the EC tunnel was used(on some servers, others used north freeport) in EQ. I'm sure the Verant devs hadn't anticipated that to happen.
Let hope for no global chat, lets actually have people make friends th eold fashion way, by meeting them. And yes I agree, the meeting places will form out of emergent game play.
I would echo others thoughts and say that I do not wish to have global chat at all. Zone/area chat would be fine with me.
I'm also against any kind of perk from sitting in once place, be it stats or rested xp. I would like the devs to build a world and stand back. Don't try to create interesting things or perks because you want me to socialize in a particular place. Do the opposite and build the world around the lore and let the people choose what to do and where to do it.
Hell... I would let the players decide where the place is... and then maybe build some content to support it.
OR!!! Create a GM raid of bandits trying to steal everyone's goods they are peddling LOL!!!... Hopefully no one is AFK...
I don't want global chat. Global chat gives easy access to people wanting to be idiots - who - when confronted, simply say "If you don't like it, leave the channel" - or - "That's what ignore is for"
Because, you know, I should have to make changes to what I can see because a few people deliberately want to be idiots.
They also give easy access to spammers.
For me, a big NO on global channels.
In regard to social hubs... I actually think it would be a HUGE bit of fun for we old EQ players if the game included some mostly centrally located zone that had everyone on indifferent faction called "The Tunnel" - that sort of resembled... "The Tunnel".
Would be a fun easter egg sort of thing that would likely become the trading center of the game.
Sevens said:Deadlyfury said:
Hieromonk said:
NuggieOndahead said:
I don't see social hubs as being all that important if there is global chat. There isn't much difference between chatting with someone in the same zone compared to chatting with someone on the other side of the world.
If there isn't global chat then social hubs will materialize whether the devs put in special places for them or not. Like you said, the EC tunnel was used(on some servers, others used north freeport) in EQ. I'm sure the Verant devs hadn't anticipated that to happen.
Going to disagree.
There are moments in early EQ, where you feared dieing again and really wanted a social environment for moral support and to see what your peers had discovered, or found, or were wearing.
A place to come and inspect others.. and converse and actually get drunk. All while standing in a tunnel, or odd-ball vendor cart. To connect with the other Citizens of the realm, the other Fallen.
Chit-chating and actually socializing can be done while not playing, too...
The reason most seek out a Fantasy World, is to get away from reality, or work, or wife, or kids, etc. and immerse themselves into fantasy. Into becoming their Character... and the phone doesn't matter, the toaster doesn't matter, the door doesn't matter, your job doesn't matter.
I agree with Hieromonk, i almost don't even really agree with global chatty channels, but the benefits outweigh the negatives. Social hubs are good for when you want to chill out and have a chat in a safe environmentJust curious but how exactly do the benefits of global chat channels outweigh the negatives? I see absolutely no benefit to a global chat channel...unless it refers to the trolls and all the stupid Racist, homophobic, idiotic crap that they constantly spew in said global channels. All global chats do is give a platform for Trolls, gold sellers and griefers to shine. Put in a good /lfg system (and not an automated crapfest like in Rift) to find groups and then use /say /shout (zone wide only) /tell /group /guild....there is all your social chatty needs right there.
Wandidar said:I don't want global chat. Global chat gives easy access to people wanting to be idiots - who - when confronted, simply say "If you don't like it, leave the channel" - or - "That's what ignore is for"
Because, you know, I should have to make changes to what I can see because a few people deliberately want to be idiots.
They also give easy access to spammers.
For me, a big NO on global channels.
In regard to social hubs... I actually think it would be a HUGE bit of fun for we old EQ players if the game included some mostly centrally located zone that had everyone on indifferent faction called "The Tunnel" - that sort of resembled... "The Tunnel".
Would be a fun easter egg sort of thing that would likely become the trading center of the game.
There are other reasons I don't like global - in particular, I think global channels shrink the world. This, of course, is an opinion statement. I remember being a little put off early on in EQ that I could only see people chatting around me... but then later, in newer games, I realized that "global anything" usually FELT like "shrinking everything."
Again - just an opinion statement.
I do get your points, but...
I don't like idiots - with only local channels, I don't have to see the idiot 20 zones away... that one idiot has to be in my (at launch) one out of 50 or so zones if they meet their stated goal... with the odds more in my favor later in the game. So I don't have to see EVERY idiot online all the time.
And I don't like shrinking the world...
So - I'd rather live with any inconvenience caused by no global channels - than gain any benefit from having them.
For example - all of us here who remember the magic that was "The tunnel" in East Commonlands... would that ever have even happened if people could sell over global channels? It's doubtful. I want the opportunity for such a place to occur again. I don't want a mechanic in the game that all but assures it won't.
I think we also need to see a reason for people to visit the hub, if you make no reason, then there certainly will never be anything created. If you give players too many tools, there is no need to socialize, but if you give too little, same thing can happen.
IE: I think they should bring back the User Vendors again. Bazaar 2.0. Only searchable to see who has items for sale and then you need to go find that person. A mix of EQ and SWG. This would create the need to have a social area and for players to visit it.
Rivacom said:
I think we also need to see a reason for people to visit the hub, if you make no reason, then there certainly will never be anything created. If you give players too many tools, there is no need to socialize, but if you give too little, same thing can happen.
IE: I think they should bring back the User Vendors again. Bazaar 2.0. Only searchable to see who has items for sale and then you need to go find that person. A mix of EQ and SWG. This would create the need to have a social area and for players to visit it.
The reasons would be created by the community. Their needs will create the reasons that a hub is created. Trying to create or force people to one place might just turn people off from it altogether. Make a world, let the people decide what happens. If this "common marketplace" creates itself and becomes big enough, then the most I would suggest doing to promote it would be to ask the devs to throw in some scenery like the land had started to change and there are booths and what not around. If the market moves... let the land evolve again and let the marketplace disappear.
Obviously this is my personal opinion and I'm not saying that a Bazaar/AH isn't easier, though I don't believe it creates the social environment we are looking for.
Personally think the value of social hubs will depend on the value of player cooperation. In EQ the Golden years, it was a self policing mechanism by requiring people to need people even outside their guild for help i.e Legendary weapon quest chains.
I think if the game is set up and run on the concept that the community needs each other and the reputation of players matters for the good or bad to the player themselves then a social hub could be a very useful thing.
Xan
I agree that natural occurrences of common need meeting a common (albeit unplanned) location would be the ideal. That's what caused the commonlands tunnel to become the place for sales on most EQ servers to begin with.
Sales aren't the only thing that can happen though. Correct me if I'm wrong VG people - but weren't there guilds that would offer stuff like "lowbie buffing Fridays" or whatever - where the "where and when" became fairly standard for that guild to do?
That too is an example of a common need being met at a common location. It is the community at work making the game a world - not the world dictating where the community should happen.
I like the idea of localized communities within a virtual world. The idea that you know everyone in the world through global chat is not only immersion breaking, but it takes away from my sense of social adventure when I explore.
In EQ at launch, I had a list of people that I had met or seen about early on. I started in Qeynos area, and whether alone or in groups, we all went from Q hills to WK to NK and SK. This is over the course of many weeks and I became familiar with all the faces and voices shouting throughout that area. We were citizens of Qeynos.
Then, at one point I went with a few people to Freeport. Over the next few days I met tons of brand new people that I had never seen before. New people, new personalities, and new groups. These were citizens of Freeport. It was great. It just seemed to enhance the sense of adventure. The thought that there were groups of people around all the cities exploring different areas and dungeons fascinated me. Down the line, we all had different origins stories about how we came up in Norrath.
Would we all have been chatting in a global chat channel, that aspect of the game would not have existed.
As far as a way to help people, ooc or lfg channels, I'd also suggest limiting these to a small area. If a single zone isn't big enough, you could allow the channel to go into the adjacent zones. Using these channels for global chat just has too many negative ramifications.
Dullahan said:
I like the idea of localized communities within a virtual world. The idea that you know everyone in the world through global chat is not only immersion breaking, but it takes away from my sense of social adventure when I explore.
In EQ at launch, I had a list of people that I had met or seen about early on. I started in Qeynos area, and whether alone or in groups, we all went from Q hills to WK to NK and SK. This is over the course of many weeks and I became familiar with all the faces and voices shouting throughout that area. We were citizens of Qeynos.
Then, at one point I went with a few people to Freeport. Over the next few days I met tons of brand new people that I had never seen before. New people, new personalities, and new groups. These were citizens of Freeport. It was great. It just seemed to enhance the sense of adventure. The thought that there were groups of people around all the cities exploring different areas and dungeons fascinated me. Down the line, we all had different origins stories about how we came up in Norrath.
Would we all have been chatting in a global chat channel, that aspect of the game would not have existed.
As far as a way to help people, ooc or lfg channels, I'd also suggest limiting these to a small area. If a single zone isn't big enough, you could allow the channel to go into the adjacent zones. Using these channels for global chat just has too many negative ramifications.
It also added some angst to leaving "old" places because you were leaving a local community behind - that could end up with some fun evenings when you ran across people you used to see in some old zone again.
Having to leave an area and it's inhabitants behind as you grow for new areas with new inhabitants - and then reengaging old friends at later dates... makes the world feel not only bigger, but more real.
No global chat, ever.
The reason for cities is commerce, so there should be a few channels allowed in cities, or certain areas of these cities. That way it naturally brings people to banks, smiths, ports, etc. It was natural to stand in a City and hock your warez. it is important. Just wholly unrealistic out in the wilderness, dungeons, etc. In the city it would be legit to have different districts have separate global chats.. would be natural.
Buyer and seller becomes a seek/seek situation.
Heck, to facilitate rural commerce, there should be a signpost with an actual billboards, of notes we can leave to each other (payed by royal stamp?). That can also spark gathering areas at crossroads, with people meeting at times to hock wares, via in-game literature!
endless...
Rivacom said:
I think we also need to see a reason for people to visit the hub, if you make no reason, then there certainly will never be anything created. If you give players too many tools, there is no need to socialize, but if you give too little, same thing can happen.
IE: I think they should bring back the User Vendors again. Bazaar 2.0. Only searchable to see who has items for sale and then you need to go find that person. A mix of EQ and SWG. This would create the need to have a social area and for players to visit it.
I would be against a search function, unless it comes in the form of a "Find Item" divination spell. I am sure that it is very useful to have something like that, but open air markets don't readily lend themselves to such things in real life, even with modern technology. Why should our characters have such a super-power bestowed upon them?