Xanier said:
I all for resist gear for certain encounters my only fear with resist is that it will get so high that in pvp casters will be at a large disadvantage. Do you see resist being in or out of pvp encounters and what's your guys thoughts on it?
My feelings on resists is that they should be done in a similar way to EQ during the early era (vanilla-velious).
At that point many damage spells were highly resistable or produced a very random amount of damage. The exceptions were some debuffs, dots, lures and life taps. Casters had to play to their strengths relying on the utility of their core, class-defining abilities like the pets, dispells, debuffs or dots. This helped classes maintain their very unique identities in PvP. For instance, the enchanter was capable of nuking, and would often use them on mobs permitted they were debuffed (for still quite random damage), it was generally far more beneficial for them to focus on buffing their allies and dispelling and debuffing their enemies. Pet classes like the mage would focus on keeping their pet in the battle, while keeping malo on their enemies. An unhindered pet would produce as much damage as a lure, so focusing on that rather than casting highly resistable spells was generally a better approach.
Its really sad to see people oppose PvP servers as fervently as they do. You may not remember, but we had quite a few PvP servers of our own back in Everquest, even though there were a number of other MMORPGs that were more focused on the PvP aspect. Theres no need to doubt that Brad, Joppa and other veteran players/developers are capable of keeping these systems separate. I believe we can trust that they will not compromise the class identities or the game mechanics in order to include PvP. Doing so will only result in a less enjoyable game for both players.
I agree wholeheartedly, that PvP should NOT be used to balance PvE or interfere in the development process at ALL. This approach only ends up removing much of the strategy, as all the classes become an offensive threat (dps) and support and healing become less important. That is the biggest flaw I've found in every supposed PvP mmorpg to date, except for EQ.
Just remember, theres a lot of people who enjoy PvP and are also fans of the type of MMORPG that Pantheon is creating. They too don't have a place to go to get the experience that EverQuest offered them. I myself am one of those people, and to this day I still consider PvP in EQ the best I've ever experienced because EQ kept the mechanics in PvE and PvP so similar, kept the class identities intact, and most importantly provided the reason to PvP that no other game has offered - TONS of open-world contested content. Furthermore, you are doing yourselves a disservice by trying to discourage the creation of servers for those players. Most of us will be playing one way or the other, and you may find yourself wishing you didn't have to compete with us for the content on your server. :)
Sorry PvP fans, but I really hope VR stick to thier guns and go PvE only for always.
Every other MMORPG out there now caters to PvPers and it is and will always be at the expense of the PvE game to some degree (usually large).
PvP and PvE are fundamentally different. It splits dev effort. It splits focus and balance. It splits the community.
disposalist said:Sorry PvP fans, but I really hope VR stick to thier guns and go PvE only for always.
Every other MMORPG out there now caters to PvPers and it is and will always be at the expense of the PvE game to some degree (usually large).
PvP and PvE are fundamentally different. It splits dev effort. It splits focus and balance. It splits the community.
Way to necro a thread, derail the original topic, and parade your ignorance of VR's plans all in one post.
They actually plan to have PvP server(s), in additional to various other rulesets, permitted there is sufficient interest for them prior to launch.
Dullahan said:Thanks so much for the kind words. Always lovely to be called ignorant. Thanks for gently pointing me at that helpful FAQ I'd missed.disposalist said:Sorry PvP fans, but I really hope VR stick to thier guns and go PvE only for always.
Every other MMORPG out there now caters to PvPers and it is and will always be at the expense of the PvE game to some degree (usually large).
PvP and PvE are fundamentally different. It splits dev effort. It splits focus and balance. It splits the community.
Way to necro a thread, derail the original topic, and parade your ignorance of VR's plans all in one post.
They actually plan to have PvP server(s), in additional to various other rulesets, permitted there is sufficient interest for them prior to launch.
Oh no, I've fallen fowl of the forum police already! I consider my wrist righteously slapped with a ruler.
I sha'n't bother trying to explain as I'd only be derailing things further.
Anyway, as you say, "permitted there is sufficient interest". Here's hoping
disposalist said:Dullahan said:Thanks so much for the kind words. Always lovely to be called ignorant. Thanks for gently pointing me at that helpful FAQ I'd missed.disposalist said:Sorry PvP fans, but I really hope VR stick to thier guns and go PvE only for always.
Every other MMORPG out there now caters to PvPers and it is and will always be at the expense of the PvE game to some degree (usually large).
PvP and PvE are fundamentally different. It splits dev effort. It splits focus and balance. It splits the community.
Way to necro a thread, derail the original topic, and parade your ignorance of VR's plans all in one post.
They actually plan to have PvP server(s), in additional to various other rulesets, permitted there is sufficient interest for them prior to launch.
Oh no, I've fallen fowl of the forum police already! I consider my wrist righteously slapped with a ruler.
I sha'n't bother trying to explain as I'd only be derailing things further.
Anyway, as you say, "permitted there is sufficient interest". Here's hoping
I think actually that we're mostly on the same page here. VR has stated over and over that they need a rock solid foundation before they start gold plating. PVP won't be a thing until PVE is a home run.
I just went back and read through the FAQ (and the tenets and whatnot that I read through before), and, yes, I'm pretty satisfied that PvE is their solid, number-one priority. That's kinda what lead to my comment, not that I really need to excuse myself.
As for the 'derailment' I guess I was commenting on PvP in general because A) Others had and B) the OP seems to have a very specific and detailed question about a particular mechanic of PvP in a game that isn't anywhere near done and isn't developing PvP. Yet. Thankfully.
I just get a little tired of all the negativity towards PvP on these forums. Before PvP was even popular in MMOs, EQ had 4 or 5 PvP servers. Someone made a thread that could have been a productive discussion about PvP mechanics, but instead, most of the responses were off-topic with the only intention of bashing PvP and players who enjoy it.
As I said previously in this thread, PvP is now insanely popular in MMOs. That doesn't mean they should make a game "for PvP", but providing servers for such players only stands to benefit everyone. You are doing yourselves a disservice by trying to discourage the creation of servers for those players. Most of us will be playing one way or another, and you may find yourself wishing you didn't have to deal with those more "competitive" players for the content on your server.
Enabling PvP also doesn't take as much time as people want to make it seem. Folks may not have noticed, but PvP was actually already active in the pre-alpha stream several weeks ago. Its a pretty simple switch to flip. With a few tweaks and balances to damage in PvP and certain abilities, the server would be good to go. That is part of what made EQ PvP so much fun.
Understood yup.
I only just got here, so perhaps jumped in too hard feet first, but I think you might find some are so dead set against it because they've seen many MMORPGs spoiled by a focus on PvP.
I'm not saying PvP isn't fun, I'm saying it's such a different animal that to accomodate it means either ruining (or at least damaging) PvE (if you try and throw it in the same servers with battlegrounds or contested content) or simply means development time isn't as focused on PvE content.
I was very excited to read all the emphisis VR appear to have on PvE. Aside from that one mention in the FAQ which I understood to be a conciliatory answer to an inevitable question, they repeatedly and at leangth talk about grouping and coop and environmental challenges. The thought that they might go the same way as all the other MMORPGs in this regard after all is very disappointing, hence my comments.
Anyway, I have a thought that probably nothing knew to PvPers: if this thing were group vs group only, there would be no need to change balance (or at least a greatly reduced need) and could actually lead to good PvE things if it helps develop good group-based tactics for NPCs...
PvP bad GvG good? hehe /hug Dullahan