Joppa, I got the feeling from your stream today that you've pretty much decided against finite arrows. I hope this is not the case. Even if it is I hope you will hear me out. At least for academic reasons if nothing else. I feel that I can better explain the way Vanguard handled arrows here in the forums as opposed to doing so on twitch during a live stream.
First I would say that Quivers are a must. Not just for fancy looks though. They would have to function like a bag that fits into the Ranged Ammo slot. A right click opens the bag to reveal slots. Each slot will hold a stack of arrows. However many slots a quiver has and how many arrows are in a stack is up to your discretion and the discretion of the other powers that be. In Vanguard I had a lvl 15 quiver that had 10 slots. And Ranger arrows stacked up to 500 per stack.
Next a little bit about how Forage worked in Vanguard. One difference VG Forage had was a 15 second cooldown. Another difference was you could Forage and loot on the move. I'm not saying Pantheon Forage should work like this. I just thought it was worth mentioning. It did make Foraging a lot more efficient though. Also there was a lot less "Failures" even at low lvls but they did exist and happened less with experience.
VG had 5 Tiers. Levels 1-10, Levels 11-20, Levels 21-30, Levels 31-40 and Levels 41-50. With each new Tier, Forage would start finding better quality arrow parts to craft the new Tier of Ranger arrows.
T1: 1 Flimsy Reed + 1 Pristine Chicken Feather + 1 Jagged Rock = 250 Crude Warden's Arrows
T2: 1 Straight Stick + 1 Hawk Feather + 1 Sharpened Obsidian = 250 Plain Warden's Arrows
T3: 1 Hollow Bird Bone + 1 Cockatrice Feather + 1 Viper Fang = 250 Polished Warden's Arrows
T4: 1 Brownie Walking Stick + 1 Roc Feather +1 Meteorite Shard = 250 Honed Warden's Arrows
T5: 1 Treant Finger + 1 Phoenix Feather + 1 Wyvern Stinger = 250 Precision Warden's Arrows
These arrow parts stacked up to 99 each in your inventory. They could also be found anywhere you Foraged. And as long as you had the proper parts you could craft these anywhere. As a Ranger in VG you had a Tab in your Codex. Clicking on that tab opened up an assembly table. You could choose which Tier of arrow you wish to craft depending on your lvl. There was an assemble button in the window. A single combined took 5 seconds. At 250 arrows per combined I could fill my 10 slot bag in less than 30 seconds.
I would add that a Foraging Bag would be nice but not absolutely necessary. One thing that would be necessary though is that the arrow parts would have to not have any weight. I know that sounds like it goes against the grain. But in this case I would argue that Infinite Arrows, which is a LOT of arrows only weighs 0.1 (zero point one). This could be more than fairly offset by making the quiver weight 1.0 or even 10.0 for the sake of the weight management game.
Ranger arrows were Tradeable but only Useable by other Rangers. So Rangers could trade arrows with each other. However other classes, depending on the players chosen tradeskill could also craft arrows. I know woodworkers could craft arrows and I think weaponsmiths could also craft arrows. These tradeskill arrows were pretty awesome and a close second to Ranger arrows. Ranger arrows did more total damage albeit physical damage only, and Ranger arrows had more range. +15 range. Tradeskill arrows had less range and less total damage but they had the added benefit of being able to be imbued with magic damage like Fire, Cold, Lightning etc. Tradeskill arrows of course was tradeable and usable by anyone proficient with a bow.
And of course there was also vendor arrows. These were the least among arrows. They could not compete with Tradekill arrows or Ranger arrows. But you could get a whole stack for a handful of copper or maybe a couple silver and they was good enough to pull a mob. Thanks for hearing me out. I'm very passionate about all things Ranger. If you have any further questions on the subject I would be happy to try to answer them.
Long time Ranger here, from EQ to Vanguard, to DAoC, to EQ2, and any game that had an archer class (except WoW, I hated the Hunter don't ask me why).
I wanted to chime in as someone who has always been opposed to arrows magically popping out of my character's butt.
I feel like the current implementation is good, but I also feel it is lacking. With weight being an issue, and carrying tens of thousands of arrows being impractical and unrealistic in the extreme, I don't think most people want to see ammo the same way other games have done it.
But I do like the idea of needing multiple arrow types or having many options.
What I would propose is a compromise between the two systems. Quivers should be a thing. With some number of slots based on tier of the item. Either crafted or dropped. The current system of having an arrow "item" that is equipped and provides ammo. I liked this when I saw it. The quiver should be set up to only hold these items. Nothing else. the slots should be very limited. tier 1 would maybe have 2, and increase by one until a limit is reached. further tiers might provide other benefits.
The equipping of the quiver should give us an ability or the item itself should be slotted on the utility bar. Using the item/ability allows us to cycle through the arrows in the quiver. Allowing us to "select" and arrow from the quiver. this lends to the "strategy" theme of Pantheon and gives people an easy way to quickly manage dmg types during combat. Broadhead, Bodkin, Field Point for slash , pierce, crush. Then add magical dmg types maybe?
Allow the Ranger to do their Rangering by crafting these arrow items from a special ability. Give them a slight bonus over normal arrows and make them ranger only.
Crafted arrows are nearly as good, but not quite, but can also be imbued with magic for the magic dmg types. So if elemental dmg is better for a specific mob, even a Ranger will need a crafter to make arrows.
I think this would give Rangers a feel of being the archer a lot of us want to be, while not being over powered, still being convenient in terms of inventory and weight management, still require a degree of dependance on crafters, giving us tactical choice during combat, and all while being an optional system. You could always just equip a single arrow item without a quiver and go with that for simple pulling and the like.
@Kellindil, I love it. Maybe not quite as much as Vanguard, but I agree what you described is the perfect compromise. I still have an affinity for finite arrows but I also understand that many people feel the opposite.
Make an infinite arrow that only a Ranger can craft. These should have the most damage but should be physical damage only. I like that you specified different types such as Broadhead or Bodkin. It would be great for a Ranger to have these options for crushing, slashing, piercing. Also a small range bonus on Ranger arrows would be sweet. Get that 40m mark instead of the standard 35m with Longbow.
A player with the appropriate tradeskill could craft other types of infinite arrows. These would not do as much physical damage but have magical damage types.
Yeah the quiver could allow you to equip and be able to quickly change between these different types of arrows for different tactical scenarios.
Yes, I could get behind and support a compromise like this. I think I could except the infinite arrows school of thought. As long as I had some hand in creating them for myself and the ability to have choices and a strategic advantage of being able to have a small arsenal of varied types of arrows for different situations.
What I do not want is a system where I'm handed an infinite arrow and basically told this is it unless you get lucky enough to find some rare drop. While I'm not opposed to special arrows being dropped from mobs, I just don't want that to be all there is. As a Ranger I should be able to strive to create a better arrow than what I've been given and yes sometimes to seek out others that would create a better arrow for me.