https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7g7m_IxGqQ
39:20
Please just make all mounts permanent and also not take up bag spaces.
If any mounts are permanent people will just use them and never bother with teemp mounts.
Mounts and pets must not take up bag space, this kills collecting, it did in wow until wotlk.
44:19
Literally begging you to reconsider all of this, there are better ways to go about mounts and making them permanent.
Use me i can help, im great at MMO systems and ill do it for free.
I will Just be taming one mount and probalby walking most of the time, as will most other players.
This doesnt need to be, dont try something new, perfect what already exist.
Grimseethe said:...
I'm not sure we understood the same things from the PTV Live, though it seemed clear to me, maybe I've got it wrong?
"Just make all mounts permanent"
That would be the ones you can rent? Always available, though not via the bizarre magical whistle instant 'summoning' in other games. You might have to run to a town.
For wild mounts? They are just as permanent if you fully take part in the Taming system and stable them.
There is also the concept that you could, for any journey, take a little time to find and tame a mount. That mount is temporary, depending on its Will, sure, but the concept is always available. You can permenently have access to 'a mount' with a little effort.
"not take up bag spaces"
There will be stable 'slots', is what I heard said a few times. I didn't take that to mean bag space at all.
Sure, you can't have lots of mounts simultaneously, though there will be more slots as you rise in levels and/or Taming ability.
"I will Just be taming one mount"
Well, initially, anyone Taming will just have one mount, yes, though you can still rent mounts and you will eventually have more stable slots.
"and probalby walking most of the time"
Why? Your stabled mount won't run away. Only a wild mount Tamed while you're out (without your stabled mount) will run away and then depending on its Will. Or you could rent a mount. Or teleport. Or sprint. Or climb. Probably a combination of the several available systems?
"as will most other players"
We will?
I'll be having great fun using this Taming system. It brings meaning, interest, challenge and fun to the usually mundane concept of mounts. Though I'll be using my stabled mount(s) most of the time while adventuring, I'll be going out on special mount taming trips, no doubt. Nice horizontal progression and play.
Having limitations to the number of stable slots sounds like it limits the 'collecting' aspect of mounts that some games have, but really, did those players collecting mounts continue to use them all, or did they just use the most recent best one? As long as the game still notes what mounts you *did* tame, the collection concept is maintained - there can still be achievements associated. And you will eventually have several slots to show off the 'best' ones as you level up.
A lot of players will just rent mounts between cities and towns, though, sure, like they do in LOTRO. Everyone will still make use of teleports, though. Everyone will be able to use and progress their sprinting and climbing abilities. Boats. Swimming. Etc.
The only problem I can see is the idea of not being able to tame another mount if you have your stabled one with you, but that's just a wrinkle to iron out. Just need to be able to 'dismiss' your mount intentionally to send it back to it's stable so you can then tame another. If that goes wrong and you are left mountless, well that's a risk (versus reward).
No thanks Grimseethe.
Your 'great at MMO systems' is just your personal opinion, not an ability to creat worlds for many player types.
Having both permanent and temporary mounts is fine, different mounts will have different perks.
The rare but time limited mounts in Breath of the Wild were cool, the temporary nature of them made it more special.
The stable system makes a lot of sense and the ability to build a relationship with the mount over time that adds extra perks, plus class and racial perks with certain mounts.
Ezrael said:No thanks Grimseethe.
Your 'great at MMO systems' is just your personal opinion, not an ability to great worlds for many player types.
Having both permanent and temporary mounts is fine, different mounts will have different perks.
The rare but time limited mounts in Breath of the Wild were cool, the temporary nature of them made it more special.
Whilst I don't entirely agree that a temporary nature makes them more special, the fact that you can make any one (or more, as you level up) mount permanent by stabling them ishould statisfy both camps of folks.
disposalist said:Ezrael said:No thanks Grimseethe.
Your 'great at MMO systems' is just your personal opinion, not an ability to great worlds for many player types.
Having both permanent and temporary mounts is fine, different mounts will have different perks.
The rare but time limited mounts in Breath of the Wild were cool, the temporary nature of them made it more special.
Whilst I don't entirely agree that a temporary nature makes them more special, the fact that you can make any one (or more, as you level up) mount permanent by stabling them ishould statisfy both camps of folks.
Based on what Jopppa said and based on his like for Breath of the Wild, I could see the system extending to some really cool rare but absolutely temporary mounts like the special ones that exist in that game.
Can be looks, stats or special perks that they unlock while ridden.
One thing to keep in mind is the goal here to make sure Mounts are only really viable as a Long Distance travel. Joppa does not want people to just pop on mounts any time they want in order to run from one camp to another. I do understand both why they want to make Mounts temporary (leave once you are done with them) and why you need to go visit a stable if you want to use your more permanent mount.
But I do see some flaws with the system and I wonder how they will overcome them.
My main concern is...
This may cause some extra time sink elements to people trying to find groups. Let me explain. Let's use some EQ zones for those who understand the relative distances... (sorry to those who may not have played EQ and don't understand)
Let's say you are adventuring out in Befallen and you are having trouble finding a group there. You pop open your friend list or maybe use whatever Group finder tool they include and find some people over in Runnyeye who have a spot in their group. Your Stabled mount is in Freeport which isn't too far, but it's in the wrong direction meaning you'd waste 5-10 minutes running in the wrong direction to go get your mount, and hope that the extra speed and endurance of your Stabled mount makes up the time. Or you need to waste 5-10 minutes looking around the Commonlands for a Tamable creature hoping that you can find one and tame it quickly enough to make it worth the time. Or lastly you just suck it up and run the distance on Foot all the while wondering if you are getting there later than if you'd tried for a mount... maybe you can Rent a Mount quickly in Rivervale for the last part of the journey.
All of these options mean a delay to you getting out to your groups because of the limits of the system. This also conflicts with VR's desire to help players make the most of a 2 hour average play time.
Of course maybe this is entirely the point... Maybe Joppa doesn't want you using mounts in this situation. Perhaps he feels that this is a short enough distance that Mounts are not to be used and you should just Jog the distance on foot. Save the mounts for those Journey's from Freeport across the world to Qeynos... yet this is what Wizard and Druid Gateways and Portal Stones will be for. So you would think that these semi-long distances would be exactly what the Mount system is all about.
Now obviously this does add a sense of Immersion to the game... but I just wonder if this will just become very tedious and frustrating when you have people waiting on you to run out to join their group and you are hung up on either searching for a mount or you're stuck slow running it.
And these problems become even worse if you're on a high population server. Not only are you competing for group spots with more people who might be closer to the place the group is, but you're also competing with other players who may have just Tamed the nearby creatures leaving none in the area for you.
This may also promote people just sitting in town looking for a group rather than making an effort to go out into the world while they are looking for a group. In our hypothetical above, the group may be more inclined to invite a player who's sitting in Freeport rather than the person who's out in Befallen because they know the person in Freeport will be able to quickly get his mount from the stable and make the journey to Runnyeye much faster even though he is farther away.
This is all made worse by the fact that Joppa said that if you get knocked off a Tamed pet that you don't have Stabled it will just run away, while your Stabled mount will at least stick around for a short time for you to deal with whatever enemy knocked you off and then let's you re-mount; as long as you don't leave it alone too long. So even if you were to find a mount quickly the player in Freeport may still be able to make the trip faster even if both of you get knocked off during the Journey because each time you'd need to go re-find a Tamable creature while the other player can just keep re-mounting.
Again this all may seem immersive, but the fun factor could get old very fast. It also conflicts with the VR goal to promote players getting out of towns and out exploring the world.
My Secondary concern...
Imagine you are on your way out to a dungeon, or are involved in a quest with your group and you happen to come across one of those Rare and Awesome tamable creatures. You think to yourself "I really would love to get that guy for my Stable". So you quickly tame him... success... But in order to Stable him, you'd need to ride him back to town. So you need to abandon your group or leave them standing around waiting for you to make the journey to the nearest place with a Stable and then back out to re-join your group mates.
Since Tamed mounts go bye bye if you don't Stable them, there is no point in even taming the Rare one unless you are going to take the time to run back to Town to Stable it.
Joppa brought up the question "Why do these systems only exist in single player games like Breath of the Wild but never in large scale MMO's where you'd think immersive things like this would make more sense?" But it seems to me like this is a major reason why. In a single player game it would totally make sense because you never have people waiting on you. But in a group centric game like Pantheon this kind of system may actually make it more of a problem than a boon. It may be fun to tame animals and collect the rares, but it sure will piss off your group mates.
So what's the solution??
Normally this is where I would make some suggestions on how they could solve these issues, but I'm not really sure how they can manage both Goals: Keep mounts for long distance only and Help promote groups and limited play time.
Hopefully VR is much smarter than me (my poor ego) and can discover a solution.
GoofyWarriorGuy said:One thing to keep in mind is the goal here to make sure Mounts are only really viable as a Long Distance travel. Joppa does not want people to just pop on mounts any time they want in order to run from one camp to another. I do understand both why they want to make Mounts temporary (leave once you are done with them) and why you need to go visit a stable if you want to use your more permanent mount.
But I do see some flaws with the system and I wonder how they will overcome them.
My main concern is...
This may cause some extra time sink elements to people trying to find groups. Let me explain. Let's use some EQ zones for those who understand the relative distances... (sorry to those who may not have played EQ and don't understand)
Let's say you are adventuring out in Befallen and you are having trouble finding a group there. You pop open your friend list or maybe use whatever Group finder tool they include and find some people over in Runnyeye who have a spot in their group. Your Stabled mount is in Freeport which isn't too far, but it's in the wrong direction meaning you'd waste 5-10 minutes running in the wrong direction to go get your mount, and hope that the extra speed and endurance of your Stabled mount makes up the time. Or you need to waste 5-10 minutes looking around the Commonlands for a Tamable creature hoping that you can find one and tame it quickly enough to make it worth the time. Or lastly you just suck it up and run the distance on Foot all the while wondering if you are getting there later than if you'd tried for a mount... maybe you can Rent a Mount quickly in Rivervale for the last part of the journey.
All of these options mean a delay to you getting out to your groups because of the limits of the system. This also conflicts with VR's desire to help players make the most of a 2 hour average play time.
Of course maybe this is entirely the point... Maybe Joppa doesn't want you using mounts in this situation. Perhaps he feels that this is a short enough distance that Mounts are not to be used and you should just Jog the distance on foot. Save the mounts for those Journey's from Freeport across the world to Qeynos... yet this is what Wizard and Druid Gateways and Portal Stones will be for. So you would think that these semi-long distances would be exactly what the Mount system is all about.
Now obviously this does add a sense of Immersion to the game... but I just wonder if this will just become very tedious and frustrating when you have people waiting on you to run out to join their group and you are hung up on either searching for a mount or you're stuck slow running it.
And these problems become even worse if you're on a high population server. Not only are you competing for group spots with more people who might be closer to the place the group is, but you're also competing with other players who may have just Tamed the nearby creatures leaving none in the area for you.
This may also promote people just sitting in town looking for a group rather than making an effort to go out into the world while they are looking for a group. In our hypothetical above, the group may be more inclined to invite a player who's sitting in Freeport rather than the person who's out in Befallen because they know the person in Freeport will be able to quickly get his mount from the stable and make the journey to Runnyeye much faster even though he is farther away.
This is all made worse by the fact that Joppa said that if you get knocked off a Tamed pet that you don't have Stabled it will just run away, while your Stabled mount will at least stick around for a short time for you to deal with whatever enemy knocked you off and then let's you re-mount; as long as you don't leave it alone too long. So even if you were to find a mount quickly the player in Freeport may still be able to make the trip faster even if both of you get knocked off during the Journey because each time you'd need to go re-find a Tamable creature while the other player can just keep re-mounting.
Again this all may seem immersive, but the fun factor could get old very fast. It also conflicts with the VR goal to promote players getting out of towns and out exploring the world.
My Secondary concern...
Imagine you are on your way out to a dungeon, or are involved in a quest with your group and you happen to come across one of those Rare and Awesome tamable creatures. You think to yourself "I really would love to get that guy for my Stable". So you quickly tame him... success... But in order to Stable him, you'd need to ride him back to town. So you need to abandon your group or leave them standing around waiting for you to make the journey to the nearest place with a Stable and then back out to re-join your group mates.
Since Tamed mounts go bye bye if you don't Stable them, there is no point in even taming the Rare one unless you are going to take the time to run back to Town to Stable it.
Joppa brought up the question "Why do these systems only exist in single player games like Breath of the Wild but never in large scale MMO's where you'd think immersive things like this would make more sense?" But it seems to me like this is a major reason why. In a single player game it would totally make sense because you never have people waiting on you. But in a group centric game like Pantheon this kind of system may actually make it more of a problem than a boon. It may be fun to tame animals and collect the rares, but it sure will piss off your group mates.
So what's the solution??
Normally this is where I would make some suggestions on how they could solve these issues, but I'm not really sure how they can manage both Goals: Keep mounts for long distance only and Help promote groups and limited play time.
Hopefully VR is much smarter than me (my poor ego) and can discover a solution.
I'm good at answering easy questions so I will do it for free.
Concern 1: You are at point A and your group is at Point B.. You run/sprint towards point B and when you see an animal that can be tamed, tame it..
Concern 2: You choose to stay in the group and don't tame it or you drop your group and then tame it. Having more choices is a good thing.
free of charge.
MFR1 said:Concern 1: You are at point A and your group is at Point B.. You run/sprint towards point B and when you see an animal that can be tamed, tame it..
This may be simplifying it too much. The way Joppa describes taming makes it a more involved process. You don't just press a button and then ride off with your Tamed mount. Sure you can keep your eye out while you run, but if you choose to stop and Tame the animal you need to stop your Journey and commit to a process that could take several minutes to accomplish, and then you risk getting knocked off 2 minutes later and your mount runs away. You've now slowed down your Journey and made your group wait for you longer instead of gaining time.
Sometimes it might work out and you get lucky and tame quickly and have no issues and all is great. But I'm sure there will be enough times where the system (as described) slows you down more than helps that it will become frustrating and 'not fun' rather than the great immersive experience that they are imagining.
I also didn't say I was against the system entirely... just that there were some concerns with the way it's currently described. Aradune used to say that sometimes you need to sacrifice great immersive ideas when they make things less fun or just add tediousness or conflict with basic Tenents. I'm not saying that this has to be the case here, but I'm hopeful that they either already have, or will come up with more to this system to allow them to still have limits to when you can use Mounts vs having them convenient enough to be worth having the system at all.
GoofyWarriorGuy said:[Good observations about the Taming and Mount systems but answering his own questions pretty well]
My impression is VR doesn't want mounts to be a simple convenience, they want them to be a meaningful choice and not the default option. In the situations you describe, Taming or fetching a stabled mount is another choice in addition to walking, running, sprinting (with or without stamina/speed buffs), gating, teleporting, sailing, etc.
GoofyWarriorGuy said:...This also conflicts with VR's desire to help players make the most of a 2 hour average play time...
Personally, I feel *not* making mounts a click-any-time-to-go-fast modern MMORPG convenience doesn't really *conflict* with VR meaningful progress session length concept. It *adds* an option that, sure, won't always be the best one, but will often be better than heading to a teleport portal or just running. And it adds that option without diminishing transport (and content) in the ways that a summonable mount collection does.
There will always be a balancing act between making travel meaningful and making travel convenient. Teleporting receives much criticism, but when limited by having portals only in certain places, it's not so disruptive. I think the same goes for mounts. Limitations and balance.
GoofyWarriorGuy said:...It also conflicts with the VR goal to promote players getting out of towns and out exploring the world.
Is that ever a problem in an MMORPG? Mostly I've heard the opposite, where devs try hard to give the players reasons to come to cities else they become abandoned. They want towns to be social hubs for visiting taverns and crafting and trading and forming groups, usually. Persuading adventurers to go out and adventure is rarely a problem.
Will players really hang around near the stable waiting for invites? Maybe some will, I suppose, but any more than hanging out near portals begging for teleports? Or hanging out begging for speed buffs? I personally feel that, again, it's just another option.
GoofyWarriorGuy said:...It may be fun to tame animals and collect the rares, but it sure will piss off your group mates.
Similar to wanting to stop and mine for ore or skin animals or talk to an NPC or follow a Perception storyline or take a escort quest others have already done or the many other things that might conflict with a group's kill kill kill progression, but that's a valuable social interaction to have and choice to make.
Many times in the past I've had to part ways with a group that doesn't have any patience for the slightest deviation from the XP/loot grind, but many times also I've had lovely conversations and people have agreed to help each other out and friendships (or at least mutual deals) have been made.
GoofyWarriorGuy said:So what's the solution??
Normally this is where I would make some suggestions on how they could solve these issues, but I'm not really sure how they can manage both Goals: Keep mounts for long distance only and Help promote groups and limited play time.
Hopefully VR is much smarter than me (my poor ego) and can discover a solution.
I've played devil's advocate here, but I agree Goofy's observations are good and concerns are valid and I too am keen to see what details and tweaks VR come up with for this system, but, to be honest, if they say "designed as intended" I'll be quite happy to see how it plays out, in fact I'm greatly looking forward to it!
GoofyWarriorGuy said: ... So what's the solution?? ...
IMO:
While not the solution, A solution is to have all the fast travel classes in the guild on guild accounts.
Been that way in every TLP guild I've ever been in, so I see no reason why it won't be that way in Pantheon.
It's not 1995 any more. There's more than one choice. If Visionary Realms makes their social gameplay so punitive that people can't group up and accomplish their goals in a timely fashion? The game dies. Then we go play another game. Or we don't play MMOs anymore. Oh well, that's life.
Having one of each fast travel class (wizard, druid, bard, whatever) makes the game more fun, for certain guilds. In our case, we don't expect players to endure the sadism of designers who use out of combat role value (like fast travel) to balance combat classes. That's just poor design followed by poor implementation. So, you just have the role available to everyone, and everyone in the guild gets to play the fun classes that the devs play.
The moment the above is no longer fun and/or possible, and the game becomes a running simulator? You lose a portion of your subscribers. And that's ok, if you're willing to pay the bills with exactly that many fewer customers. :) Didn't work for PFO, but, meh, who needs to learn from history, right?
At some point I suspect it will be necessary to have some fun in the game. There's been an awful lot of tedious and punitive revealed in Pantheon since the end of 2019. Hopefully it's exactly enough tediious and punitive to be successful.
vjek said:GoofyWarriorGuy said: ... So what's the solution?? ...IMO:
While not the solution, A solution is to have all the fast travel classes in the guild on guild accounts.
Been that way in every TLP guild I've ever been in, so I see no reason why it won't be that way in Pantheon.It's not 1995 any more. There's more than one choice. If Visionary Realms makes their social gameplay so punitive that people can't group up and accomplish their goals in a timely fashion? The game dies. Then we go play another game. Or we don't play MMOs anymore. Oh well, that's life.
Having one of each fast travel class (wizard, druid, bard, whatever) makes the game more fun, for certain guilds. In our case, we don't expect players to endure the sadism of designers who use out of combat role value (like fast travel) to balance combat classes. That's just poor design followed by poor implementation. So, you just have the role available to everyone, and everyone in the guild gets to play the fun classes that the devs play.
The moment the above is no longer fun and/or possible, and the game becomes a running simulator? You lose a portion of your subscribers. And that's ok, if you're willing to pay the bills with exactly that many fewer customers. :) Didn't work for PFO, but, meh, who needs to learn from history, right?
At some point I suspect it will be necessary to have some fun in the game. There's been an awful lot of tedious and punitive revealed in Pantheon since the end of 2019. Hopefully it's exactly enough tediious and punitive to be successful.
Pantheon does not have to have mounted travel as an always ready convenience for those who want to always focus on efficiency. The game is not even being marketed as such. 'Timely fashion' is profoundly subjective. Fast travel being the norm or the primary option does not fit with Pantheon's goal and is most definitely not poor game design for classes that have advantages. Especially when you know well in advance this is not a game that caters to fast travel. Some classes having better travel options is part of the class fantasy and, again already known when you learn about the game.
Going into Pantheon looking to be the most effiecient is something the players put on themselves and they should not hold VR responsible for their choice of gameplay not being catered to when they know that Pantheon is not a game made with that as it's primary marketing goal like most modern games.
I must admit I was not overly excited after hearing the taming / mount presentation. I guess I just never saw the mount system in other games as being broken (beyond flying mounts). If me and my 5 group mates decide to change dungeons, are we all supposed to just search the countryside for mounts? What about a full guild? Down a raid target and ready to travel to the next, might have to find 20+ tamable creatures around.
Also, this means the world will need to be filled with creatures simply present for the sake of giving people mounts.
Xonth said:I must admit I was not overly excited after hearing the taming / mount presentation. I guess I just never saw the mount system in other games as being broken (beyond flying mounts). If me and my 5 group mates decide to change dungeons, are we all supposed to just search the countryside for mounts? What about a full guild? Down a raid target and ready to travel to the next, might have to find 20+ tamable creatures around.
Also, this means the world will need to be filled with creatures simply present for the sake of giving people mounts.
Why do you expect your raid night to be about easily moving lots of people from target to target around the world?
Stuff like the GW2 worldboss train is exactly what Pantheon doesn't want to be like at endgame in any way.
Raids done well could be a single target or a single raid area, yet still fun, meaningful, a good challenge and excellent content.
Not fast travel speedrunning raid mobs with the perfect strat copied from a website.
It happens in most discussions and it's undestandable, but I think some are judging Pantheon (and Mounts and Taming in this instance) by other-modern-MMORPG standards when they say things like "but, with this Pantheon system, how do we do [the stuff like we do it in other modern MMORPGs]?!".
The answer, almost certainly, and very thankfully, is: You don't, really.
Some of the most important parts of the recent PTVL vid was Joppa making it clear that Pantheon will be different.
Some quotes: -
"how can we evolve this experience to make it more enjoyable to make it more interesting more fun while still keeping that overall Spirit of the game intact"
"travel needs to be meaningful"
"travel needs to take enough time and in some cases needs to be challenging enough for the moment of arrival at your destination to feel significant to feel impactful"
"one of the creeping changes that over the last decade has gutted the heart and soul of the MMORPG is this insistence on instantaneous travel. The fact that MMOs today, they're set up in almost this kind of mobile game like veneer ... the games present themselves as these segmented Hub lobby-based experiences where all of the content in the game is offered by way of instantaneous access. Most of the content of the game is not found out in the open explorable world, it's found in these interface access points where ... we're queuing up for different activities and the world at large is not being treated as such, it's not being engaged as a living breathing place that needs to be explored"
"getting the experience of travel right and its supporting systems and context within the game world right in an MMORPG is paramount, it's literally paramount"
"we are intentionally moving away from emphasizing the amount of always-on speed Buffs [amongst other things: mounts in other games]. That's an intentional design decision. To put it simply we're designing Pantheon to be too deeply strategic to deeply tactical to allow for something like an unmitigated constant speed buff and the kind of bypassing of all that tactical challenge it would allow"
"we want to make sure we take the challenge the Tactical challenge of Pantheon very seriously it's kind of an immutable pillar of the game and so we naturally measure other systems and design decisions against that"
"are we against these something like a fire and forget mechanic that allows for so much of that tactical challenge to be lazily avoided or even exploited? yeah"
So, yeah, mounts are not like they are in most modern MMORPGs. They are not going to be a click-anytime-to-summon-then-run-through-monsters ability everyone that gathers (or buys) gold can use.
But there will be: Walking, Running, Sprinting, Speed buffs, Stamina buffs, Climbing, Sailing, Teleporting, Binding and Gating. Taming and/OR renting and riding mounts is *as well as* all that.
We have some very well thought out opinions here that do not necessarily agree. Partly because different people want different things even among enthusiastic supporters of the core Pantheon concepts. But more because we have no idea of the precise details. Neither do the developers.
This is not a criticism - wouldn't most of us be criticizing them vigorously if they said "Here is how the system will work. We don't care what testing in pre-alpha, alpha or beta shows, this is locked in stone and tester opinions will be entirely ignored"
"If Visionary Realms makes their social gameplay so punitive that people can't group up and accomplish their goals in a timely fashion? The game dies. Then we go play another game. Or we don't play MMOs anymore. Oh well, that's life."
Of course. Manifest truth. Known to VR as well as to us. So they won't. If they screw up we will tell them in testing and after the game goes live. If they ignore us - they will deserve the results. We won't but ..... that's life.
There will always be guilds that raid multiple zones in a night. They can be fun, meaningful and challenging but leave them still with an hour or 2 of raid time left and wanting more. Not only that, but raid/dungeon areas will be high traffic so there will have to be a high density of "mounts" in the area to accomodate so they can go to another leveling area when there is no groups in the current area. One answer might be a hitching post outside a dungeon so you can hop back onto your stabled mount when you are done with the dungeon. I mean if you own a horse you don't just let it wonder off without tying him off.
I guess another answer would be having a stable close to each dungeon, stables every x miles by a body of water for the water mounts since I assume we won't be having those running on land, by climbing obstacles for climbing mounts or whatever but at that point it just seems like it is trying too hard to make it work.
you could also just give everyone a gate/hearth type spell and they can just go back to town once an hour to get their horse and go to the next area you want to try to play at.
Also, they talked about getting a mount from the keep at one point, so is the group just done once they get the special horse because they have to run back to town? I am assuming you will have to fight your way to the stables to get the special mounts he is talking about. Will there be enough for the entire group or will 1 lucky person get the special mount and then abandon the group to go stable him leaving everyone else high and dry. I guess if they have a friendly stable outside the dungeon that won't be so bad.
Right now, at least with how they explained it, it sounds tedious and forced. It works in single player games because you are beholden to noone but yourself. It is not the same as picking some flowers or mining some nodes which take 10 seconds to complete, it requires you to completely leave the area your group is in. I also hope that once it is fleshed out a bit that it becomes something more collector friendly. Maybe taming different mounts give you access to their skins(palomino, albino, black, roan, etc etc) and you can customize your mount at the stables. That and stat barding and maybe trophies to display like witcher 3.
I guess even after watching the PTV twice, I'm still not totally clear on a few of the finer points of the mount system.
1. Joppa said that if you're riding a stabled mount you will not be able to tame any other mount you may find. But will there be any way to "send back" your current mount to the stable, thus freeing you up to tame a new one you happen to come across in your travels (at the risk, of course, of leaving yourself mountless should you fail to tame the new one)? I would hate to happen upon an awesome rare mount as I'm riding through the far reaches of Terminus but not be able to even try to tame it just because I'm riding a stabled mount.
2. When you dismount from a stabled mount, does it wait in the location you dismounted, or does it return to the stable (disappear)? If it does, is there a way to summon it back? If it waits for you, there would need to be some way to distinguish your mount from other players' mounts, as the outskirts of raids would get super cluttered.
If anyone can offer any clarity on these points, I'd love to understand them better. Otherwise, I personally kind of like the initially temporary nature of mounts, as long as you can ultimately make a few of them permanent through stabling. I definitely think the player needs to be able to keep some of these awesome-sounding creatures around for the long term.
disposalist said:The answer, almost certainly, and very thankfully, is: You don't, really.
Some of the most important parts of the recent PTVL vid was Joppa making it clear that Pantheon will be different.
Yes. I think the part most people are skipping over, and in my opinion the most important part of the stream, was in the first few minutes when Joppa was explaining what he feels is wrong with modern MMOs, and how/why Pantheon will be different. Particularly when he was talking about how modern MMOs have become segmented lobby games, and how VR strives to make Pantheon different from that.
A lot of questions and concerns about the game could be pre-empted if people kept in mind that Pantheon is not intended to be like modern MMOs where transmogs and collections are so prevalent because the content is so shallow.
I am fully against the horse pocket mechanics and what VR is doing with mounts looks great. My main questions for VR are: Are stables universal or tied to a single city? Are mounts teleported with the player? Will you need mounts specific to the different environments, as in will a polar bear die in the toxic swamp but survive the blizzard without problem?
Gyldervane said:2. When you dismount from a stabled mount, does it wait in the location you dismounted, or does it return to the stable (disappear)? If it does, is there a way to summon it back? If it waits for you, there would need to be some way to distinguish your mount from other players' mounts, as the outskirts of raids would get super cluttered.
Joppa did say your mount would eventually disappear and "return to the stable" after 10 mins or so of being unattended. We shouldn't see problems like a hundred mounts outside a dungeon or people trying to keep their mount active while adventuring in the area by jumping on it every 5 mins while they farm for hours. Letting the stable mounts return to the stables will be common. I would hope there is even an option to say, "go home mount!" I say this because it would feel cruel to just leave a mount alone in a blizzard unwanted and forgotten...
Pantheon mounts sound like they are ways to leave a city and get to planned destinations slightly faster or simply in style. You won't be summoning the stable mount from a horse pocket while running 10 seconds just to save 3 seconds between combats from the way they described it. My take was: Like all MMOs you need to go home eventually. Your PC will teleport back to your bind point city to vendor, bank, and do whatever you need to do to prepare for the next adventure. Finally you pick up your stable mount to take you back out into the world saving you some travel time.
The temporary mounts are great to be able to remount out in the middle of nowhere if you don't want to go back to your city. A big enough of a pain to only do for long trips makes them far less common. I like this mechanic pushing adventurers to largely being on foot unless traveling long distances.
Ezrael said:No thanks Grimseethe.
Your 'great at MMO systems' is just your personal opinion, not an ability to creat worlds for many player types.
Having both permanent and temporary mounts is fine, different mounts will have different perks.
The rare but time limited mounts in Breath of the Wild were cool, the temporary nature of them made it more special.
The stable system makes a lot of sense and the ability to build a relationship with the mount over time that adds extra perks, plus class and racial perks with certain mounts.
Ive created 2 mmos and 3 rpgs on paper, trsut me i can create worlds, ones that would change the gaming world forever.
Alot of things have been said, sadly i know what i know, when it comes to MMOs ive never been wrong, today wont be the first time.
People will get the "best mount" and yes there will be a best mount, they will make it permanant if possible then nevr swtich or collect.
No one will priotise mounts over bag space and they wont stop gameplay to run to banks or stables to switch mounts if there is no reason to, effctivly killing it for collectors and completionists.
I am always proven right in the end.
Grimseethe said:Alot of things have been said, sadly i know what i know, when it comes to MMOs ive never been wrong, today wont be the first time.
Wow, that must be so cool, but perhaps bear in mind that Pantheon will not be like the other MMOs you are always right about.
Grimseethe said:People will get the "best mount" and yes there will be a best mount, they will make it permanant if possible then nevr swtich or collect.
May as well say people will get the best gear and never switch or collect. "The best" changes over time and given situations.
VR have stressed several times over the years that they recognise limited variety in itemisation causes multiple problems from content bottlenecks to griefing to boring BIS outfits, etc. Knowing that's how VR think, we have no reason to believe mounts won't be as varied as the itemisation.
Grimseethe said:No one will priotise mounts over bag space
As I think I replied earlier, we have no reason to believe mounts will take up bag space. Joppa said, more than once, "mount slot", implying it is separate storage from other equipment.
Grimseethe said:and they wont stop gameplay to run to banks or stables to switch mounts if there is no reason to, effctivly killing it for collectors and completionists.
Well, they might, depending on how far the stables are. They might not. Options. Choices. But they will perhaps come to towns more regularly than in other MMORPGs and then they will use their mount to sally forth on their next session.
Also, there will be several mounts slots eventually, but, also as I asked earlier, why do you need to have continual access to the whole collection just so you can collect? How many players really, regularly, swap mount to mount in a meaningful way, and don't just use the best one they've collected so far?
And no, things like Asmondgold's "mount-off" shenanigans don't count as particularly 'meaningful' usage. As recent vids have more than proved, that guy has quite different motivations in MMORPGs to anyone interested in Pantheon. Odd click-bait merchant that he is, I'm not bothered by what he supposedly finds fun in MMORPGs.
Grimseethe said:I am always proven right in the end.
Again, that must be fantastic. Why are you wasting time here when you could be solving the energy crisis or organising world peace?
Grimseethe said:Ive created 2 mmos and 3 rpgs on paper, trsut me i can create worlds, ones that would change the gaming world forever.
Then go make them, get rich, and leave Pantheon alone.