I have no problem with your plea for them to consider changing their plan, it's great to come voice your opinion and be heard.
I'm SO GLAD that mounts aren't going to be a "collectible" item in Pantheon, I've never understand that aspect of games. It never felt natural to me and always felt out of place. I am super impressed with the last PTV and the info we got about mounts, excited to see how it works out in game!
I do wonder how many stable slots we'll be able to get as we increase in power/wealth. I imagine they'll have a cost, so if you really DO want to collect tons of mounts you probably could, it just won't be free and they won't be stored in some other dimension (like a magical bag of holding that you can cary around holding a hundred mounts).
I am one of the people who love to collect mounts and pets. I like to be able to ride a mount that fit in with different zones or just play mount roulette where I can ride a random mount. Customization brings a lot more into a game for me and quite a few other people who have played older games like EQ. It adds tons of extra hours of gameplay between my grouping and raiding. Every choice I make aesthetically is meaningful to me. I know its not everyone's cup of tea and I am not trying to convince anyone that it is worth a change of heart. I just want to say there are a lot of people who love collections who started gaming "back in the day". No, I don't care about asmongold nor have I seen a mount off, though I have heard of his transmog competitions which I watched all of once and found them boring and pretentious.
My husband pretty much the opposite and hates collecting. He spends almost no time on it at all except that one time he found the stinky floppy fish mace in wow, but he just bought it on the AH and didn't farm. He will likely go out and tame the first animal he sees, stable it, level it, and be done with the taming system unless different biomes require different mounts. He does, however, appreciate the collection system as something that is relatively easy content for the devs to add with a very good return on time investment. If each mount type has 20 skins it will give collector TONS of content. More time in different zones, more chances for that "living world" feel, interaction with lower level characters while waiting for that palomino to spawn etc etc. It may be "shallow" to some, but it is fulfilling to others.
If I had to guess how many stable slots there would be, I would say one for each type of biome. Forests, tundras, deserts, stormy?,oceans I dunno but it would make sense to have enough to accomodate each type of zone.
disposalist said:Also, there will be several mounts slots eventually, but, also as I asked earlier, why do you need to have continual access to the whole collection just so you can collect? How many players really, regularly, swap mount to mount in a meaningful way, and don't just use the best one they've collected so far?
I think this game in particular would need the ability to switch mounts more often than other MMO's. If you are traveling long distances you are likely to encounter multiple biomes with different needs. A wolf that is good at running on snow is probably not good at running on hot sand. So a horse or camel would be a meaningful choice as you traverse a desert area. A large heavy weighted mount for windy areas so they could withstand the gusts that would throw a horse off coarse. Inside each zone there are climbing obstacles which you would want to use a climbing specialized mount. In a coastal/lakefront zone swimming mounts would be an important swap to make. If acclimation and different biomes is going to be a big part of the game, I don't see why it wouldn't include mounts as well.
I'm not saying a clicky item is the answer per se, but that is why I said it feels kinda forced. Putting a stable in each zone line/town would likely solve most of those problems but at that point it feels like they are doing it just to click off a box that says I am different kinda like reinventing the wheel. If you don't want people just riding to each mob pack or whatever you could just put a 5 minute cooldown on the mount to make that choice meaningful.
I also feel like it is wierd that your horse that you have stabled is just going to wander off back home like a homing pigeon. If we are trying to stay more "realistic" I would find it better mechanics that in the begining it will only stay around for 10 mins before wandering off. You are a relative stranger, why would he stick around? Once you get a max bond it now stays in the area pretty much indefinitely(or if you want a cap, a few hours if you don't feed it). It makes you fully realize the bond and see the difference in how the mount acts, much more fulfilling than your bestie horse abandoning you every 10 mins. Sure they wander to graze but they stay within earshot for a whistle or something. If we want to get more tedious, have rope to tie him off or bring food the keep them in the area.
I am super open to new and different systems, even ones I don't necessarily enjoy. Maybe the way he explained it didn't work for me, but for trying to feel more realistic and visceral, it missing something that takes it to the end zone for me. That being said, I hope it is better what it seems. If there is no collecting and it stays the exact way he explained it I will likely only engage in the system a handful of times to get any necessary mounts with a unique skin for each different terrain and leave it at that. A necessary means to an end.
Interesting, I find this line specifically, the opposite: "Putting a stable in each zone line/town would likely solve most of those problems but at that point it feels like they are doing it just to click off a box"
It feels much more realistic to me to have a stable in every little town because that's how people travel. The expectation is that when you show up to a town, even a small town, there is a place for your horse to be taken care of for the night.
I'm only pointing that out because I find it interesting that people can get the exact opposite feel from the same information.
I do think stables in the towns are realistic, but every zone shouldn't have a town on every zoneline with an obligatory stable just so you can switch a mount. Also, being as expansive as the zones are, it is reasonable to think there may be 1 town at the top of the map and then the rest is just wild and possibly even different biomes in one zone. Heck, some zones shouldn't have towns at all but at the same time those are the zones I would think are the most dangerous biomes and need of special mounts to traverse. Then it becomes a stable in the middle of nowhere because one half of the zone is forest and then the other half is mountains or to make it possible to tame in dangerous places.
I guess thats where the forced part comes in for me. It feels like they are going to have to put stables in places that don't necessarily make sense just for the sake of the novelty of not having permanent mounts. It's not like its a deal breaker or anything, but just some honest feedback.
(sorry for my scattered thoughts, hopefully it makes sense what I am trying to say)
Ah, yeah I see what you're saying. I agree!
I guess, for me, I don't see a reason why players should expect to always travel on mounts. Mounts would be one travelling option, when it makes sense. I actually hope that *most* of our traveling is done on foot. Going from one area in a zone to another area in a zone, to me, should be done on foot. Traveling from Thronefast City to Faerthale City would make sense to do on a mount.
There's an interesting phenomenon associated, I find. In MMORPGs, there is a balance to be found between things that 'make sense' and the integrity, meaningfulness, etc of the gameplay. What I would add to that balance though - which complicates things - is the effect that adventurers existing in a world *has* on that world.
For @Nexira and @Ranarius, it is of course a sensible thing that, in a world where mounts are a thing, there would be places to leave your mount, but then a counter that says you don't want stables being obviously placed just to make mounts viable because that would feel forced, fake, artificial.
BUT in a world where mounts are a thing, unless adventuring only became popular 'yesterday' in the game world, NPCs that look after mounts *would* exist wherever was convenient, because that would be a totally realistic thing to happen: NPCs - actual population of the world - would go provide services for the droves of adventurers that need them. To a great degree, for me anyway, it begins to feel weird when those things are *not* there.
Of course, as a game mechanic, the developers might intentionally want the players to not be able to safely stable their mounts in all the convenient places of the world, so they won't put NPCs in those places, but as far as realism is concerned, except in the places it's horrendously dangerous, it would make sense for stabling businesses to be all over the world, because: 'adventuring' exists.
It's a similar situation to in-game maps. I understand the game mechanic desire to encourage players to explore and maintain mystery of the world, but again, unless adventuring became popular yesterday in the game world, townsfolk NPCs would make and sell maps of the area to adventurers. For an adventurer to set off into the world with no idea of the surroundings and not ask the locals of the locals not to have any idea or no way to make a map is a bizarre concept.
To be honest, the whole minimap thing - which is essentially a 'magic' map - is probably something the local magicians guild would have worked out the first time one of them went out and got lost. Again, I totally understand why developers wouldn't provide that, but as for 'realism', it makes total sense to have a minimap, including magical GPS markers.
Also auction houses. It's almost a bizarre concept for MMORPGs to not have auction houses (and some don't). Thousands of adventurers buy and sell items face-to-face all day every day and no trader NPC in the town thinks to offer a brokering service? They stock and sell every piece of adventuring gear under the sun - providing for adventuring is *clearly* their main and only business - but brokering the loot sales they observe all day? Oh no, we don't do that. Adventurers do that. Hehe.
Anyway, you get the point and as for mounts, there will be a common sense thing that says any settlement will have a stable, but there's a game mechanic thing that says we only want stables in such spots that riding is used as intended and I get the feeling the intention is they are used for travelling between stables, ie. are additional travel 'routes' like the teleporting networks, but also to sally forth *to* an adventuring location without stables from whence it is up to the adventurer to find their way back, or more likely, onward to dangers unknown.
RISK
sonmeone quipped: pronblem solev for free, leave grplup and tame or whatever
Leave group? dude we were ehading this way adn ytou are abandoning us? F.U. what a dirtbag- and you say problem solved? Sorry I just had an intrusive thought: Definition of psychopath is someone that lacks empathy. I'm not sure how that pertains... You know how long it takes to tame? I don't think its instant, rather, I don;t want it to be instant.
I see it for what it is, a nice bit of fluff. If you can, great but its not a group breaker. its not an advantage either way. Or, if it is an advantage like one person tames an ostrich and once mounted, because of its size the group - all others on foot- get a run speed boost (as if running in formation behind the large ostrich like ducks in a "V" formation in air as if being carried in its draft, what cyclists call "drafting")
then, yeah. Imagine your own alternate group shareable benefits from temporary wild tamed mounts here. (seahorses:underwater breathing? male pregnancy?l-whoops! lol, tortoise: omgosh slow, but perm +5 heat glyph and +10% to drink stats and slow drink consumption? plus +2 AC? for all?)
I would like some situational awareness to go along with wild mounts like- if tamed you have to go where they go, or like go their path even if it might not be the direct path or the one you are going on- which is the RISK, Native boosts from native mount? or get there in a hurry.
If you have your own mount I think you direct it. I also think it should wander back and be subject to attack so either you ride to next stable and be responsible for mount or... dont use a mount. Another spice can be additonal pearls spent on adding to taming skill maybe? to allow mount to stay for a period of time, but once told to stay, it MUSt stay for that amount of time, like you cant call it earlier. In stay mode its protected. once the timer is up, its free- like as if it was never tamed or never yours and will wander back to origin stable where it can be bought again if it is not killed en route not unless you are there to take up the reins once stay timer is up.
So are they saying there will be no permanent mounts? and what do you consider permanant? i guess my question is like eq1-2 you had mounts that you can summon at any time (outdoors). So is there none of that in pantheon? i really hope thats not the case, that would IMO that would kinda suck, and possibly hinder exploration because now you have to go here to get a mount and if you get off your mount you have to go all the way back to get another one etc. I hope im misunderstanding the mount system i know having a mount you can summon is more enjoyable.
Rhelic said:So are they saying there will be no permanent mounts? and what do you consider permanant? i guess my question is like eq1-2 you had mounts that you can summon at any time (outdoors). So is there none of that in pantheon? i really hope thats not the case, that would IMO that would kinda suck, and possibly hinder exploration because now you have to go here to get a mount and if you get off your mount you have to go all the way back to get another one etc. I hope im misunderstanding the mount system i know having a mount you can summon is more enjoyable.
If you've played Breath of the Wild, it's that taming & mount system.
If you haven't, then once you're on the mount it will stay with you for a certain time before deciding it doesn't want to stick around anymore. If you get knocked off in combat it will likely run away. Stables exist where you can take the tamed mount and stable it, after which it should be a more permanent mount.
There won't be any pocketing of mounts. If you take a mount somewhere you have to figure out where to park it.
Rhelic said:So are they saying there will be no permanent mounts? and what do you consider permanant? i guess my question is like eq1-2 you had mounts that you can summon at any time (outdoors). So is there none of that in pantheon? i really hope thats not the case, that would IMO that would kinda suck, and possibly hinder exploration because now you have to go here to get a mount and if you get off your mount you have to go all the way back to get another one etc. I hope im misunderstanding the mount system i know having a mount you can summon is more enjoyable.
No, you aren't misunderstanding. I can see people passing up perception pings that are along the way or even skipping social interactions because they don't want to go back to a stable. I don't understand why in a massive openworld game where travel is already heavily penalized with limited port and no fast travel we need to further do that with mounts. Especially in an MMO, I don't think you should ever be penalized for stopping what you are doing and helping other people without cheesing the system and hopping on your mount every 9 mins.
Honestly the stable to stable emphasis sounds better as an afk travel method(Chocobos, flight paths) with perks for picking the best stated appropriate mount for the zone. All the other mount perks like swimming/climbing/gliding? can be a temp mount in the area of the obstacle and the rest of the world is just sprinting. Feels nicer and much cleaner that way.
Nexira said:Rhelic said:So are they saying there will be no permanent mounts? and what do you consider permanant? i guess my question is like eq1-2 you had mounts that you can summon at any time (outdoors). So is there none of that in pantheon? i really hope thats not the case, that would IMO that would kinda suck, and possibly hinder exploration because now you have to go here to get a mount and if you get off your mount you have to go all the way back to get another one etc. I hope im misunderstanding the mount system i know having a mount you can summon is more enjoyable.
No, you aren't misunderstanding. I can see people passing up perception pings that are along the way or even skipping social interactions because they don't want to go back to a stable. I don't understand why in a massive openworld game where travel is already heavily penalized with limited port and no fast travel we need to further do that with mounts. Especially in an MMO, I don't think you should ever be penalized for stopping what you are doing and helping other people without cheesing the system and hopping on your mount every 9 mins.
Honestly the stable to stable emphasis sounds better as an afk travel method(Chocobos, flight paths) with perks for picking the best stated appropriate mount for the zone. All the other mount perks like swimming/climbing/gliding? can be a temp mount in the area of the obstacle and the rest of the world is just sprinting. Feels nicer and much cleaner that way.
It's been stated a few times that you need to be inquisitive and careful when looking for not just perception pings but also things like harvestables out in the world.
It's not the sort of thing you do while sprinting around or galloping across the world on a mount.
Using a mount is for moving quickly from one point to another with a purpose, not for carefully exploring an area in detail.
Nephele said:Let me see if I can help clarify and put some people's fears to rest at the same time :)
Yes, there will be harvesting nodes in the world for you to find and gather resources from. This is one of the primary ways (although perhaps not the only one) that raw materials will enter the game for crafters to use. Those nodes will be found everywhere in the world - and I do mean everywhere, including in dungeons and other places where you may not be used to the idea of gathering happening.
They will not spawn in predictable loops, although they will spawn in locations that make sense. So for example, if you're looking to do some mining, it's a safe bet that rocky areas or caves will have some nodes for you. If you're looking to gather wood then places where larger trees tend to grow will likely have what you seek. And so on.
We want to make sure that we preserve risk/reward across all spheres, so you'll find that while some things are easy to get to, larger and more valuable harvesting nodes tend to be found in more hostile areas of the world. If you're out gathering you can also expect to have to contend with the environment as well, including climbing, extreme climates, and all the other things that make Terminus a little more interesting and dangerous than your run-of-the-mill game world.
Also yes, the current plan is that crafting and gathering will be part of the game at launch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9YvCjRYTEc
I might be missing something, but AFAIK it is going to be like any other gathering in games. Predictable area for nodes but no map marking and random respawns to make for less mindless looping. Turn off the minimap and try to find stuff like khadgars whiskers. Its always at a base of a tree in certain zones, so you run around looking at the bases of the tree to find them or liferoot always being near rivers, so you run the riverbank, tangleweed in the ocean or coastline. Run around in New World and find herbs before you have leveled up your skill. They don't show up on the navigation bar until later but its not hard to find them as long as you know the biome they are located at. Hemp in low level grasslands, mining nodes in rocky mountain areas, lifebloom and rivercress by streams. Maybe a mob that needs to be killed or cc'd(we don't know if they will flee because *you* are in combat or if they are in combat, makes sense that if you dismount away from the battle and engage that the horse would wait its full 10 minute timer since he wasn't involved in the combat), maybe some climbing/swimming, but it seems like any of these dangers or obstacles are likely to take less than 10 min mount return time to deal with. Obviously, this is different than the nodes in dungeons or the giant New World mining nodes in an aggressive NPC area that are lootable after killing the big bad in the middle. Those are always more difficult regardless of the game, but those are not the farming opportunities I am talking about here.
Without knowing more about each system, I think its too early to rule out people on mounts running around looking for gathering nodes. In fact if you are farming low level stuff as a 50 they probably will use a mount because everything is trivial. They will, however, probably be sprinting around just like in new world, especially in areas like 4+ levels lower than the player. People always find ways to dodge combat, cc, or just loop a snared mob so that it won't hit you while gathering. I see druids being gathering fiends for this reason. Will they be doing it on max level areas? I'd like to say probably not and you would need a friend or 4 to farm exotic stuff, but we can't just focus on max level when thinking about how it impacts gameplay and social interactions.
Travel time will be at the forefront of a lot of people's minds when it comes to Pantheon, it is not unreasonable to think that they will skip social interactions or fun flavor type stuff because the alternative is a 20 minute detour back to town to continue to where you were going or what you were doing especially if town is not in the direction you are going. I'm 100% on board with meaningful decisions about most things in MMO's, I just don't think that should be one of them. It is something that can be adapted to, but it takes a little joy out of the game for me.
All of these things could be fixed by just handling the mount system like Breath of the Wild does since that is where we are pulling the idea from. I have yet to play it, but I did a little looking. You have to sneak up and get on the mount, build affection with food and soothing so you can control him better because at first he doesn't take your commands well. You take him to be registered at a stable and once you have the highest bond horses will follow the roads automatically so we can have an afk chocobo type thing.
Your registered mount in breath of the wild stays where you left him without a time limit. If you are close enough you can whistle for him to come towards you. If you run far away you can either pick him back up at any stable or run back to where you left him. How to make that work in an mmo? If it is too much on the system to leave the mount there you can just have an icon on your world map or a hitching post only seen by you and when you are in the right place whistle and he will come back.
In fact, I'd say from how it was described, I'd be very happy with a BotW mount copy. It is a very cool intuitive system as described. There are some downsides such as them being able to die, but I'd also be ok with that so you can't just drop him off in a wolf den or running through a bandit camp, as long as you can res him again later(not immediately but at a mount ressing location or just back at the stables). If you dismount an unregistered mount it will disappear after you get a certain distance away and I assume after a time limit but I couldn't find that information, which sound very similar to what they were talking about but it makes sense in this case because you have no bond.
TLDR: Yes, we will probably be mounted or sprinting around while harvesting in easier areas and I like the mount system if you make it more like Breath of the Wild where you can go back to the last location you dismounted and find/summon your stable registered bonded horse with no time limit. 10 min time limit sucks :) It also allows for afk travel which could be adapted as stable to stable functionality, 5 different mounts that could account for biomes, and also allows you to temp tame a mount for climbing for example and be able to come back to your registered mount where you left him.
Craftable magic consumables fed to the mount could be used to trigger different actions (return to stable, follow behind, wait here). This would create a small money sink and provide an in-game explanation for certain game mechanics.
I really like that mounts are not inventory items; that always felt ridiculous to me.
I really hope race and size play a factor. Some mounts should have a minimum character size and others a maximum. Dwarves and Ogres shouldn't be riding the same mount. I also really hope each race has a couple mounts that only they can ride. This will really help with further diversifying the play experience for each race.