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Community Opinion - If you could change one thing...

    • 9115 posts
    January 27, 2022 3:40 AM PST

    Community Opinion - If you could change one thing about modern MMORPGs, what would it be and why? #MMORPG #CommunityMatters

    • 3852 posts
    January 27, 2022 4:47 AM PST

    This one is a no-brainer. I would change the absence of Pantheon as one of the fully funded and released MMOs.

    • 724 posts
    January 27, 2022 4:47 AM PST

    The ongoing trend to simplify things (or "dumb down" if you want to name it so).

    QoL improvements are one thing, but there have been so many questionable changes to class mechanics or game mechanics (like "who asked for that???") in every MMO I played over the years...

     

    • 273 posts
    January 27, 2022 5:08 AM PST

    I would remove the stories.

    Many of the issues I have with modern MMOs stem from their emphasis on storytelling. When the primary focus of PvE in an MMO becomes storytelling, it becomes imperative that developers make 100% of the game accessible to as many players that wish to experience it, so they can "finish" the story. That's why we end up with watered down games that are as much single player games as they are "MMO".

    In an MMO the world (lore) and the NPCs should be a backdrop to provide context for the players. The "storytelling" itself should be driven by the players through organic interaction. That's what is missing from modern MMOs, and I hope what Pantheon will bring back to the genre.

    • 810 posts
    January 27, 2022 8:00 AM PST
    Number go up mentality is more important than adventuring. It's a ratrace to make number go up and the higher your number goes the higher the number in the dungeons and raids go. Your number went up! You can't go there any more!

    It doesn't matter if you had fun, a number went up so it was time well spent.
    • 258 posts
    January 27, 2022 9:12 AM PST

    I think the system put in place of how you get people to interact with each other in the game. Is probably the most important thing about keeping a game alive... and that means from every aspect of the game. Of course, I'm aware VR has a good intention when it comes to that by making this game able to perform tasks with a group, rather than soloing. Having a sense of community is important in this case, because I believe it will go a long way.


    This post was edited by BigBadAzz1 at January 27, 2022 9:15 AM PST
    • 1860 posts
    January 27, 2022 10:07 AM PST

    I would remove microtransactions.

    • 363 posts
    January 27, 2022 10:26 AM PST

    Microtransactions for me as well, they really destroyed the integrity of the genre. Instancing everything is a close 2nd.

    • 1921 posts
    January 27, 2022 10:57 AM PST

    IMO:

    Grouping required to gain any reward (including leveling XP) in any game loop that has distinct roles.

    That's the one thing that almost no game has, any more.  Every other related public design goal should build off that tenet.

    • 220 posts
    January 27, 2022 11:23 AM PST
    Like other above me have state are all in line with what I was thinking as well. I would also do away the asian theme, big weapon, armour, over sexy character model, whorish outfits, mount that don't fit the game, and cosmetic if possible.
    • 520 posts
    January 27, 2022 11:27 AM PST

    Absolute worst are p2w and microtransactions. Other than that making MMOs solo friendly is always a mistake.


    This post was edited by Hegenox at January 27, 2022 11:28 AM PST
    • 690 posts
    January 27, 2022 11:41 AM PST

    Jobeson said: Number go up mentality is more important than adventuring. It's a ratrace to make number go up and the higher your number goes the higher the number in the dungeons and raids go. Your number went up! You can't go there any more! It doesn't matter if you had fun, a number went up so it was time well spent.

    That's probably it for me too.

    • 627 posts
    January 27, 2022 12:16 PM PST
    That any player is entitled to everything is the game..

    Some items, Quest, boss kills, zones are for the top 1%. Invest the time needed and stop crying about its hard to achive your goal..
    • 258 posts
    January 27, 2022 12:42 PM PST

    Yes, P2W.. worst business model you can have. You'd be surprised how many people dislike it.

    • 258 posts
    January 27, 2022 12:51 PM PST

    Oh, I have another one: One thing I notice about a lot of MMORPG's is a game that allows people to be done in 1 days time to achieve highest rank in a raid after new content comes out. The only thing I could say about that is maybe have new content patches to come out every 4-6 months to keep everyone busy or a way that we can steadily progress while maintaining the MMORPG feel of being active and healthy while still keeping it easy for those that spend less time in the game. I know it's too much to ask but I feel it will ease and mindshift players of nowadays to get on the game and keep it going.


    This post was edited by BigBadAzz1 at January 27, 2022 12:57 PM PST
    • 1273 posts
    January 27, 2022 1:59 PM PST

    Population size and/or cross connected servers.  I don't know the technical terms.  The idea that when you log in the game assigns you to a server or instance based on current population.  For a community to exist you need to be able to meet new people naturally in the world.  That is just not possible when people are getting moved from server to server or instance to instance.  

    • 219 posts
    January 27, 2022 11:04 PM PST

    Tough question.

    I think my best answer would be: Make a variety of playstyles so most peoople have something they enjoy.

    Most MMOs (and games in general) tend to try and force players to play the way THEY want them to play.  But games are almost always more fun when people have some level of agency.  If a team of 50 Warriors wants to form a phalanx to fight a mountain giant, why not?  Hold your shields high and firm, fellows!  If a game gives a player the option to play as a stealthy Rogue, why does it make them break stealth to open a chest quietly?  You can pick someone's pocket without making them aware but opening a box in a corner reveals yourself to everyone in a 50 foot radius?  Why?

    There's a point beyond which this doesn't make sense - for example, letting any class stealth or any class heal or whatever - but I think more player agency is generally better than less.  I'm not sure why game developers avoid it like the plague considering games that allow it tend to be immensely popular.

    .

    The other thing I'd do is move away from zones and more towards an open world and focus on world and exploration, but as Pantheon is already doing those things (read about the no more zones a month ago and was thrilled - WoW's the only running MMO I know of without zone boundaries!), I see no reason to suggest that as a change.

    This also goes to things like having a quat/quinternity rather than a rigid trinity, with some overlap (e.g. Bard having some off-healing, Druid having some off-damage and possibly a stealth/sneak skill), but Pantheon's already doing that, too.  :)

    EDIT: Oh, and this includes having multiple avenues of prestige.  For example, a lot of "elitist" gamers want to tie all prestige items to...raids.  Why?  There are other things players can do to achieve things few have.  Explore every corner of the world, max out gathering/crafting professions, and so on.  The incessant raid culture is another thing I'd change, since it forces all MMOs to, over time, adopt a "the true game doens't start until max level" nonsense, and tends to create problems of toxicity and "meta" gaming/min-maxing, and that needs to die in a fire and go away.

    .

    EDIT2: Oh, one more thing:

    NOT EVERYTHING IMPORTANT OR POWERFUL SHOULD COME FROM RAIDING.

    Gandalf found a legendary sword in a troll horde that didn't require any fighting since the trolls were turned to stone.  You might call that a "raid encounter", but then Frodo was just given Sting and the Mythril Vest (yes yes, they came from Bilbo's adventures, but that's beside the point!)  And Anduril was given to Aragorn as he prestiged at a high level.  :p

    irl, if you want to learn how to make a better wooden chest, you make lesser chests and glean from the experiences.  You might consult a master woodworker.  You don't go and kill a general deep in an enemy nation military base to suddenly know how to make a better wooden chest from reading some notes he had on wooden chest building.

    NOT EVERYTHING IMPORTANT OR POWERFUL SHOULD COME FROM RAIDING.


    This post was edited by Renathras at January 27, 2022 11:18 PM PST
    • 2419 posts
    January 29, 2022 10:32 AM PST

    Kilsin said:

    Community Opinion - If you could change one thing about modern MMORPGs, what would it be and why? #MMORPG #CommunityMatters

    Crowd Funding.  I want developers to return to being beholden to the purse strings.  Crowd funding lets developers basically ignore the people who got them started because once they have our money, they can do whatever the fudge they want,  as slow as they want (or just quit completely), and we can do nothing about it.  At least with a publisher/VC the developers must answer to someone.

    • 1992 posts
    January 29, 2022 10:58 AM PST

    Vandraad said: ....

    Your anger over the development of Pantheon is extremely unhealthy, and will eventually harm you if you don't get away from it.

     

     

    • 1860 posts
    January 29, 2022 11:35 AM PST

    Vandraad said:

    Kilsin said:

    Community Opinion - If you could change one thing about modern MMORPGs, what would it be and why? #MMORPG #CommunityMatters

    Crowd Funding.  I want developers to return to being beholden to the purse strings.  Crowd funding lets developers basically ignore the people who got them started because once they have our money, they can do whatever the fudge they want,  as slow as they want (or just quit completely), and we can do nothing about it.  At least with a publisher/VC the developers must answer to someone.



    You shouldn't blame that on crowd funding though.  You just want someone who is enforcing deadlines.  You want every team to have a John Smedley.  While it is not the #1 thing I would change, I agree with you that is important.

    • 258 posts
    January 29, 2022 11:56 AM PST

    Vandraad said:

    Kilsin said:

    Community Opinion - If you could change one thing about modern MMORPGs, what would it be and why? #MMORPG #CommunityMatters

    Crowd Funding.  I want developers to return to being beholden to the purse strings.  Crowd funding lets developers basically ignore the people who got them started because once they have our money, they can do whatever the fudge they want,  as slow as they want (or just quit completely), and we can do nothing about it.  At least with a publisher/VC the developers must answer to someone.

     

    You my friend... have probably missed a lot about what the VR team is doing or trying to do. The reason why they're doing what they're doing is because I believe they're trying to set a foundation to outstand from most of the development teams out there in the MMORPG world, which in this case, a lot big companies are emphasized in making money instead of actually doing something for a good cause. I believe the development at Visionary Realms have a vision that could have or could have great potential when it comes to the entertainment industry and video game development. They have said this many times before and as a matter of fact, I believe Brad McQuaid was the one that voiced it out to the general public in one of his announcements (correct me if I'm wrong). Don't you think they'd be many companies or firms trying to buy the assets to this company? Haven't you ever thought of that?

     

    Here's a link to what he said: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2017-09-28-brad-mcquaid-i-want-to-make-worlds-not-games


    This post was edited by BigBadAzz1 at January 29, 2022 12:09 PM PST
    • 2419 posts
    January 29, 2022 12:04 PM PST

    Jothany said:

    Vandraad said: ....

    Your anger over the development of Pantheon is extremely unhealthy, and will eventually harm you if you don't get away from it.

    Did, at any point in my post, I say this was only applicable or directed solely at Pantheon?  No, I didn't, so next time don't assume you know WTF I'm talking about.

    • 1992 posts
    January 29, 2022 12:22 PM PST

    Vandraad said: ....next time don't assume you know WTF I'm talking about.

    I don't think you've ever posted anything quite so humorous :)

    Thanks for the laugh.


    This post was edited by Jothany at January 29, 2022 12:37 PM PST
    • 2419 posts
    January 29, 2022 12:59 PM PST

    I'm here, if for nothing more, than to entertain.  Glad to be of service.

    • 9115 posts
    January 29, 2022 3:31 PM PST

    Vandraad said:

    Kilsin said:

    Community Opinion - If you could change one thing about modern MMORPGs, what would it be and why? #MMORPG #CommunityMatters

    Crowd Funding.  I want developers to return to being beholden to the purse strings.  Crowd funding lets developers basically ignore the people who got them started because once they have our money, they can do whatever the fudge they want,  as slow as they want (or just quit completely), and we can do nothing about it.  At least with a publisher/VC the developers must answer to someone.

    That's not really how that works mate. Maybe for a solo or very small team but for any company with proper structure, morals and values, there are goals, deadlines, targets that all need to be hit, meetings to hold departments and staff accountable etc. when working with peoples money, the law holds you accountable. If you add an investor or two on top of that then you're playing with other peoples money that expect a return on their investment.

    In Pantheon' case, we have all of those things and more and our development process has changed multiple times to align ourselves to be able to deliver the best quality and sustainable product possible for ourselves and everyone else involved, including you folks.

    I think if you take a look at some of the bigger crowdfunding failures you will see things behind the scenes were mismanaged and that can't be attributed to every crowd-funded project just because a handful did the wrong thing, made the wrong decisions or were dishonest or greedy in their approach.

    That's like saying "I hate all drivers because there are a bunch of bad ones out there" even though they all need to register their car and follow the same laws and road rules as each other.