Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

How do you like to earn experience?

    • 370 posts
    July 19, 2021 10:36 AM PDT

    starblight said:

    Edaemus said:

    Definitely killing mobs. I prefer to have quests be more meaningful than just simple experience.

    Completly agree.

    Agree here. I want to level up my character by playing my character. I don't mind quests that flush out Lore but I honestly just want to play my character.

    • 888 posts
    July 19, 2021 12:30 PM PDT
    I want xp to come from combat. If its tied to anything else, it makes those things go from being fun to being a grind. For example, if we get xp for exploration, it changes exploration from an open-ended adventure where i go wherever I want into a checklist of places we go to then immediately leave as we continue in our pre-planned route that's been optimized for time. If i know everyone else will explore all the same places, it stops feeling like I'm actually exploring.

    I also want to diminishing xp by mob type and location to encourage variety. And I really prefer to fight bad / corrupted / undead NPCs. I really don't enjoy killing all the native megafauna.
    • 2752 posts
    July 19, 2021 2:16 PM PDT

    Counterfleche said: I also want to diminishing xp by mob type and location to encourage variety.

    This sounds somewhat at odds with the statement made above it. If players are forced into roaming often to fight different things in order to not suffer lowering exp rates then does that not diminish the joy of choosing ones own adventure/path? Does it not make gaining exp some kind of pre-planned route wherein players all experience most/all areas in the same way, following the same loop(s) of mobs for any given level/area to keep exp rates up? 

    Seems to me forced exploration/variety for gaining experience is a negative, it should be up to the individuals to choose how/where/what without a heavy hand trying to shove them any specific direction.


    This post was edited by Iksar at July 19, 2021 2:17 PM PDT
    • 888 posts
    July 19, 2021 2:42 PM PDT
    @Iksar, It depends on how quickly and by how much xp decreases. I agree that if diminishing returns are too harsh, that can cause problems. I see diminishing returns as being fairly gradual and not diminishing too far. The idea is that its a check against teams mostly sticking to the same few 'best xp rate' spawns. No game can be perfectly balanced, so we need a mechanism that adds balance automatically. This adds variety by keeping enemy mob types fought much more varied.

    I think diminished return penalty should max out at around getting 90% xp/hour compared to a non-diminished return. This is enough to motivate many to mix things up but it doesn't prevent a group that really wants to stay from still getting fair xp return.
    • 560 posts
    July 19, 2021 2:49 PM PDT

    I am tempted to post about diminished return idea but I feel the original post is important and would rather not detract from it. Counterfleche any interest in posting your idea as a separate thread?

    • 1995 posts
    July 19, 2021 3:12 PM PDT

    Iksar said: If players are forced into roaming often to fight different things in order to not suffer lowering exp rates then does that not diminish the joy of choosing ones own adventure/path? Does it not make gaining exp some kind of pre-planned route wherein players all experience most/all areas in the same way, following the same loop(s) of mobs for any given level/area to keep exp rates up? 

    Seems to me forced exploration/variety for gaining experience is a negative, it should be up to the individuals to choose how/where/what without a heavy hand trying to shove them any specific direction.

    A diminishing return can be implemented in various ways. It could reset after a relatively short time, rather than being a permanent diminishment for MobX and/or locationZ. Just enough to encourage fast levelers to give up a camp after a period of time, rather than holding it for days/weeks as the 'best' spot for XP for X number of levels.

    It might also help the issue of people monopolizing camping spots in a more immersive and less heavy-handed way than any 'play nice' rules about how to share content.

     

    • 255 posts
    July 19, 2021 3:23 PM PDT

    By killing mobs, Quests can give XP, but not a high ratio to the mobs like wow. Kill 10 tigers for 400xp and get a quest reward of 2000xp, maybe the reward is simular to the xp of killing the mobs, for those sort of quests. Maybe higher for quests where there is more detail and time needed to be spent on it. Or just an item only from doing the quest.

    • 690 posts
    July 20, 2021 11:10 AM PDT

    Killing mobs.

    Quests to kill 15 animals are every bit as repetative as a camp. Atleast the camp has randomness and excitement thrown in like whether or not you spawn the rare mob, or your group dies.

    I personally prefer the idea that the perception quests give lore, money, and cool stuff over experience. I can get my sense of accomplishing a greater purpose just fine from that.

    I'm certainly not against some simple, repeatable quests giving experience, though.

    I highly doubt VR will manage to convince many of their most hardcore uber guilders to not level as fast as they can. Crushbone belts from Everquest 1 are a good example. Possible experience gains from loot gives monetary value, which allows more casual players to get that early income to buy their spells and abilities.

    It also can cause higher levels to go to lower level areas and, so long as there are methods of preventing overcamping, foster positive interaction between higher and lower levels.


    This post was edited by BeaverBiscuit at July 20, 2021 11:14 AM PDT
    • 129 posts
    July 21, 2021 5:45 PM PDT

    Wellspring said:

    How do you like to earn the bulk of your leveling experience -- as a quest reward or from killing mobs?

     

    After recently jumping into New World and hating life...

    I want to travel somewhere, setup a camp, and pull to / around the camp. Much like I do in life when I go climb, we setup a camp, we do things around camp until we pack up and move to another wall. Much as I did in EQ, where I would go to Nro, Oasis, or any other zone. For dungeons, I either want to end up pulling to a camp or crawling through slowly. The days of trying to get to the back of Seb with a full group (or getting a replacement from half way), those were fun days. Real people solving real problems, not relying on mechanics.

    Playing New World the past two days reminded me that I just can't play a game without the above circumstances. The idea of doing quest rewards, running to a quest location, killing a few things, running back... Ugh. I want to travel with adventure and socialization, not run grocery trips.


    This post was edited by Rogue at July 21, 2021 5:46 PM PDT
    • 454 posts
    July 21, 2021 9:49 PM PDT

    I suppose with my name being Questaar it would be obvious, but I love questing.  I love going from place to place talking to people, finding clues, yes, killing mobs, building things, making things.

    • 9115 posts
    July 22, 2021 3:33 AM PDT

    This topic has been promoted for my CM content, please continue the discussion and have fun! :)

    "Hot Topic - How do you like to earn experience? Join in the community discussion via this link: https://seforums.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/13102/how-do-you-like-to-earn-experience #MMORPG #CommunityMatters"

    • 49 posts
    July 22, 2021 4:05 AM PDT

    Killing mobs, some camps but lotsa dungeon runs.

    • 48 posts
    July 22, 2021 5:40 AM PDT

    Rogue said:

    Wellspring said:

    How do you like to earn the bulk of your leveling experience -- as a quest reward or from killing mobs?

     

    want to travel with adventure and socialization, not run grocery trips.

     

    Perfect analogy for me. I am not a delivery service. I like meaningful quests. Epic quests. I want the exp to be meaningful for those quests as well, but I really just want to camp or dungeon delve for that sweet sweet exp and loot. 

    • 26 posts
    July 22, 2021 7:04 AM PDT

    quests first, then mobs.

    • 13 posts
    July 22, 2021 8:12 AM PDT

    60% from grouping

    20% from solo killing

    20% from Questing

     

    It's important to have soloability until you can get a group then that will speed up the experience you gain, so yea thats my prefered spread.

    • 123 posts
    July 22, 2021 9:31 AM PDT

    Killing mobs mainly, but also exploring and discovering the world, there should be an exp bonus for the first 100, 200 or + mobs you kill in a zone and also when you discover new zones or points of interests.

    • 220 posts
    July 24, 2021 6:54 PM PDT
    Having quest reward EXP encourages solo gameplay quest grinding game design which I believe Pantheon is not design for.
    I prefer the bulk of my EXP from defeating mob either by solo grind or group party which encourage me to interact with other people and behave myself.
    • 72 posts
    July 25, 2021 3:53 AM PDT

    Killing mobs, preferably mobs with crafting supplies, faction points, or good loot drops.
    I don't want quests to be a significant source of leveling experience at all.

    Linking level progression to quest progression is, I think, a terrible and lazy design choice made by modern MMO developers that just copy what WoW started. It incentivizes antisocial play over that of social play. It detracts from the core gameplay of MMOs if the very design of the MMO makes the social experiences worse for most players. It says a lot when I'd rather quest alongside an enemy player in WoW than a player on my own faction. The enemy players are usually more friendly, and--even if they aren't--I can at least get some fun out of the two of us killing eachother relentlessly.

    There are a few benefits to questing based level progression, but thanks to common UI elements in modern MMOs they rarely outweigh the negatives. The game designers get to use quests to direct player movements, reduce congestion, and promote exploration on players that wouldn't choose to do it otherwise. However, modern theme-park MMOs direct you exactly where to go, and never give you a reason to stop staring at quest markers and enjoy the game world for what it is. FFXIV is terrible for this. The majority of the gameplay is just so, so dull and mundane. "Go here, kill this, interract with that" for hours upon hours. The game basically plays itself 90% of the time, and you as the player are just there to run where the UI tells you to run and use the abilities that the UI tells you to use. Outside of the instanced content and social elements, the majority of the actual hands-on gameplay is simply horrid. (Story is nice tho)

    There's no reason not to have quests in MMOs since they can add a lot to the game in the right places, but I think the rewards from quests should be pretty much anything besides experience. Faction gain, consumables, keys, gear, crafting items, whatever. Just not experience.


    This post was edited by Turnip at July 25, 2021 7:28 AM PDT
    • 119 posts
    July 25, 2021 4:40 PM PDT

    I think only quest to give XP should be something that acts as a psedo skip for first 10 levels for an experianced player when playing a second character (expensive gems?)

     

    Quests should add other things like faction / gear / buffs and consumables. They should (in paralell with crafting) be a main source to get OK to Good gear at a level. Excellent gear should always be from named/random drops.

    • 138 posts
    July 27, 2021 11:59 AM PDT

    I prefer gaining exp from killing mobs. Although, I don't mind having a quest send me somewhere to set up camp for a rare drop or to gather a few things. If a quest can provide some direction for a potential new place to go camp or explore then great, but the idea that I would be "grinding" quests concerns me to my core. That is one my personal "cardinal sins" in modern MMORPG design that primarily came from WoW's quest hub model. 


    This post was edited by Katalyzt at July 27, 2021 8:23 PM PDT
    • 4 posts
    July 27, 2021 6:58 PM PDT

     

    Hi all. This is my first time posting something. I played EQ and Vanguard growing up. The idea of having both is great but I cannot resist a good group and camping in a spot for a while to try to get a specific item for yourself, friends, or guildmates or just to level up while chatting with your group mates. I believe there is a value to killing mobs to gain exp as it can bring people together to form a community and you get to meet new people through your adventures, maybe even make a new friend out of it. That being said, I do think there should be a mix of both. I do tend to hate the generic kill 15 mobs or collect 10 apples or whatever for 10 copper reward and exp. I will do some of them and I do think they can be a good way to help people to explore different parts of a world but as you get higher in level I think the quests should be less and more meaningful.  Now if it's a huge quest line that leads to an epic weapon or some item that you really want, awesome. I am down for those quests.

    Zhium

    • 99 posts
    July 28, 2021 8:57 AM PDT

    By defeating mobs preferably named ones with good drops. Eq s named mobs have been one of the reasons the game was so enjoyable and long lasting. (paired with AA exp)

    After all quests are just a way to distribute the same gear to everyone and often times prevents grouping up because others dont get a benefit in doing your quests.

    • 520 posts
    July 28, 2021 12:17 PM PDT

    Definitely by grinding/killing mobs - i wouldn't mind quests that gave xp, but no more than 25% of overall amount. 

    • 13 posts
    August 4, 2021 9:47 AM PDT

    All ways should be viable for earning experince. I don't understand the reason for putting limits on the way people like to play. Long gone are the days of a game dictating how someone should play, people just wont play your game. The goal of any game but specifically a group centric game should be to have as many people as possible playing the game. As dev's you want people to experince your world, see all the hard work and cool features you have built. Then why limit game play in a way that will have people not play your game. We have all been around long enough to know that a game based on groups and using the trinity will require a tank and healer. Log into any any MMO with those requirements and you will find 20 DPS LFG but no tank or healer. Most people don't want to waste time sitting around LFG. Even with a perfect LFG tool, that tool can't make tanks or healers login. So you need as many people as possible to even out the probablility of getting the most groups as possible. 

    For me personally I like to earn exp both through quest and grinding. I equate this to real life in that almost everything you do can be a learning experince or give you some insight, some new experince no matter how small that can be used later in life.  

    I'm seeing a lot post talking about quest should only give x or less percent than grinding or ginding should be less or solo less way less than a group. What the game should strve to do is figure out what it wants its leveling curve to be. What is the ideal time to spent to get from level 1 to max. Then have all of the ways to get XP be broken down into an XP per hour ratio. The allows for adjustments across the entire system by changing the formula whithout adjust individual quest or mobs. Sure there are variables that will make it not perfectly even but the idea is its close and allows people to play their way. 

    I see a fai amount of I like to solo grind or solo something in this thread. While I agree with the basis of game being group centric I'm a firm believer in the carrot vs the stick approach. Give people an incentive to group but don't penialize them for not grouping. We need as many people as possible playing this game even if they solo during the week and only group on the weekends or only group 1 out of every 50 play sessions. I spent my waining days in EQ with a raid guild that couldn't raid because guilds couldn't backfil attrition fast enough. The problem was getting new people or even returning people to max level and gear needed was a daunting task takings months without just spending weeks of power leveling and old raid zone runs. I don't want to see that in this game 2 years after launch. Back then EQ had limited competition that is not the case with new MMO's people have lots of choices. Old school is good as long as you have learned from prior mistakes. Those that fail to remember history are doomed to repeat it.  

     


    This post was edited by Aneadorn at August 4, 2021 1:08 PM PDT
    • 690 posts
    August 4, 2021 1:40 PM PDT

    Aneadorn said:

    All ways should be viable for earning experince. I don't understand the reason for putting limits on the way people like to play. Long gone are the days of a game dictating how someone should play, people just wont play your game. The goal of any game but specifically a group centric game should be to have as many people as possible playing the game. As dev's you want people to experince your world, see all the hard work and cool features you have built. Then why limit game play in a way that will have people not play your game. We have all been around long enough to know that a game based on groups and using the trinity will require a tank and healer. Log into any any MMO with those requirements and you will find 20 DPS LFG but no tank or healer. Most people don't want to waste time sitting around LFG. Even with a perfect LFG tool, that tool can't make tanks or healers login. So you need as many people as possible to even out the probablility of getting the most groups as possible. 

    For me personally I like to earn exp both through quest and grinding. I equate this to real life in that almost everything you do can be a learning experince or give you some insight, some new experince no matter how small that can be used later in life.  

    I'm seeing a lot post talking about quest should only give x or less percent than grinding or ginding should be less or solo less way less than a group. What the game should strve to do is figure out what it wants its leveling curve to be. What is the ideal time to spent to get from level 1 to max. Then have all of the ways to get XP be broken down into an XP per hour ratio. The allows for adjustments across the entire system by changing the formula whithout adjust individual quest or mobs. Sure there are variables that will make it not perfectly even but the idea is its close and allows people to play their way. 

    I see a fai amount of I like to solo grind or solo something in this thread. While I agree with the basis of game being group centric I'm a firm believer in the carrot vs the stick approach. Give people an incentive to group but don't penialize them for not grouping. We need as many people as possible playing this game even if they solo during the week and only group on the weekends or only group 1 out of every 50 play sessions. I spent my waining days in EQ with a raid guild that couldn't raid because guilds couldn't backfil attrition fast enough. The problem was getting new people or even returning people to max level and gear needed was a daunting task takings months without just spending weeks of power leveling and old raid zone runs. I don't want to see that in this game 2 years after launch. Back then EQ had limited competition that is not the case with new MMO's people have lots of choices. Old school is good as long as you have learned from prior mistakes. Those that fail to remember history are doomed to repeat it. 

    The trouble with giving people options is, often times the best option will win out. Most people choose the path of least resistance, or in other words the easiest and most efficient path. 

    So, for example, if you can either kill mobs for experience, or kill mobs and then use your mount or teleports to quickly turn in your quest for experience, there's a good chance that the quest and mob killing combo will win out.

    More experience tends to come from multiple sources you can even just sort of do at the same time.  Thus anyone who prefers the easier or more efficient path, must, must, must do quests and kill mobs at the same time if both offer valuable experience.

    So I do agree that Pantheon should put in options, but they should of course weigh those options, and try to figure out if they are giving an option, or if they are giving a newer and brighter path of least resistance.

    I personally do agree that there should be inefficient soloing options.

    What's more, if you must take out options for the sake of the game that's ok. Often times if you stick to your guns in a respectful and playful manner, customers respect you back. Sometimes they even try your product, or advertise your product to their friends they think it is a fit for. Sometimes potential customers who really like you even try to conform to your product. 

    At the end of the day, all competition truly means is you're looking where the money is. If you can do the best at giving everyone everything like WoW, that's great.

    There's also the option of targeting a niche of people within the whole and earning their unwavering loyalty. Less customers, but longer term customers who are willing to pay you more money and explore more of your game. I believe this is VR's current aim.


    This post was edited by BeaverBiscuit at August 4, 2021 1:44 PM PDT