Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

How do you like to earn experience?

    • 318 posts
    July 16, 2021 4:32 AM PDT

    How do you like to earn the bulk of your leveling experience -- as a quest reward or from killing mobs?


    This post was edited by Wellspring at July 16, 2021 6:23 AM PDT
    • 1860 posts
    July 16, 2021 6:13 AM PDT

    I'm looking forward to grinding exp by camping mobs.  It's been awhile

    • 94 posts
    July 16, 2021 6:22 AM PDT

    Definitely killing mobs. I prefer to have quests be more meaningful than just simple experience.

    • 3852 posts
    July 16, 2021 6:29 AM PDT

    I suspect I am in the minority - but it isn't the first time and assuredly will not be the last.

    I find pure grinding by killing hundreds and thousands and tens of thousands of mobs mind numbing, boring, meaningless and one of the worst of all of the many MMO time sinks.

    I far prefer to have a *reason* for what I am doing. Even if 90% of my experience from killing 50 wolves is the per-wolf kill experience and only 10% is the quest reward I am much happier killing wolves for a reason. Not just personal greed.

    Where I am very much in the mainstream here is not wanting my character to be the center of attention and the linchpin of story arcs as in most MMOs. In not wanting to be able to level *rapidly* doing quest after quest. In not wanting the game to focus on a "golden path" from quest hub to quest hub to quest hub.

    But I *do* want there to be many quests and for most of my time to be spent doing quests if I wish - and I will so wish. Even though the quests should not be "save the world and defeat yet another Dark Lord" quests but rather to help people out for the satisfaction of it or for profit as I journey.


    This post was edited by dorotea at July 16, 2021 6:31 AM PDT
    • 2419 posts
    July 16, 2021 7:06 AM PDT

    Wellspring said:

    How do you like to earn the bulk of your leveling experience -- as a quest reward or from killing mobs?

    Oh, definitely by killing mobs.

    • 37 posts
    July 16, 2021 7:40 AM PDT

    Killing mobs.  I had 2 near max leveled EQ characters and almost never quested.  Exploring and finding groups of mobs to camp and then finding how to efficiently kill those mobs and wait/hope for a decent drop.  Exploring and killing are the entire fun of the game.  Questing is nice when it happens to match up with what I'm currently doing, but I want to play not work.  I don't need someone to tell me to go get this and do this and I don't want to spend my time clicking things to craft.

    • 810 posts
    July 16, 2021 8:32 AM PDT

    I love quests but hate the xp reward in quests that turn questing into a leveling system.  Remove xp from quests for a better system.  Quest says to go here and help people for an item or gold or simply to be nice, the XP is from the journey of carrying it out.  Don't make questing simply the thing you do for speed leveling.  Grey quests

    Because I love quests I tend to earn most experience from quests, but I obviously think the only XP I should get while questing are from the fights I win while questing.

    • 1281 posts
    July 16, 2021 9:29 AM PDT

    Killing mobs.

    I do like questing though.

    The reason I don't care for questing for XP is that means the game likely has a combat system I don't care for, like fast kill/action oriented, or just a weak group requirement. If a game focuses on quests then it has to be solo friendly. And walking up and clicking a mouse on an emimy a few times until it falls over is not interesting/challenging to me.


    This post was edited by bigdogchris at July 16, 2021 2:43 PM PDT
    • 2752 posts
    July 16, 2021 10:07 AM PDT

    Killing mobs. Absolutely tired of quest grinding for experience, quests are better left as something done for specific rewards that are not experience but rather reputation/coin/items/etc. 

    • 318 posts
    July 16, 2021 10:20 AM PDT

    dorotea said:

    I suspect I am in the minority - but it isn't the first time and assuredly will not be the last.

    I find pure grinding by killing hundreds and thousands and tens of thousands of mobs mind numbing, boring, meaningless and one of the worst of all of the many MMO time sinks.

    I far prefer to have a *reason* for what I am doing. Even if 90% of my experience from killing 50 wolves is the per-wolf kill experience and only 10% is the quest reward I am much happier killing wolves for a reason. Not just personal greed.

    Where I am very much in the mainstream here is not wanting my character to be the center of attention and the linchpin of story arcs as in most MMOs. In not wanting to be able to level *rapidly* doing quest after quest. In not wanting the game to focus on a "golden path" from quest hub to quest hub to quest hub.

    But I *do* want there to be many quests and for most of my time to be spent doing quests if I wish - and I will so wish. Even though the quests should not be "save the world and defeat yet another Dark Lord" quests but rather to help people out for the satisfaction of it or for profit as I journey.

    You bring up a great point. Killing mobs SOLELY for exp is not fun.

    I remember times in EQ1 progression servers where all the "good" exp loot spots were taken, so I would grind mobs that had no drops, but decent exp. That got boring REAL quick.

    It helps to have some kind of reward for killing mobs besides just exp. The rewards don't have to be tied to a in-game quest though. Maybe they drop money, crafting materials, rare items, etc. And perhaps you have your own personal goals for killing the mobs (in addition to exp), that are kind of like a pseudo quest in your mind. For example, I'm going to go grind exp on Skeletons so that I can also gather bone chips to sell to a necromancer player.

    • 2138 posts
    July 16, 2021 11:58 AM PDT

    If I do not have a plan, like a quest to direct a general way to go, I prefer to let the "grind" come from exploration. It could start as simply as, being in the city, venturing out a little, testing yourself against what gets agry at you, learning what you can do and then...there's a gateway or arch into the next zone, or you have a map piece that says there is a town located... "north". I would want to get some people together to head "north" and if we get distracted along the way, fine. But I would learn the area and see whats around and exp as I go.  

    Of course it might get too hard and we would have to rethink things but that's how it goes.

    Thing is with a quest, you may not finish it right away you may get sidetracked or meet others that are doing something else. You may not finish it until weeks later. What I mean is, The quest may say, you need to get something from a corrupted goblin in this haunted estate. But when you get to the estate- which is across a neat area with an underwater dungeon you have heard people talk about that is too high for you right now-you realize the garden maze area is about your speed, but the back area is too tough. And people are inside the house and thats tougher, and some are in the basement and thats tougher still- impossible at your level. So you stay there, or head back and forth to areas more your speed and "take in the air" there and find POI's or look at the land maybe pick up another quest or two.

    MoB's get in the way of the exploration or sidetrack to a PoI, and from those that get in the way- is the "grind" but you get past them on your way and learn that this particular kind of MoB hangs out, here.


    This post was edited by Manouk at July 17, 2021 7:55 PM PDT
    • 2001 posts
    July 16, 2021 12:05 PM PDT

    I prefer the bulk of XP to come from combat. That's the 'bread and butter' of leveling, to me.

    Getting only XP from a quest feels like a letdown. Quests are the treats that one finds sprinkled across the world. I want a different reward from them. Whether that is getting exposed to an area I didn't know about previously, learning new lore - or game mechanics, getting a unique named piece of gear that might have special affects, a title, a cosmetic item, or occasionaly a nice gear upgrade. As long as I get something along these lines, no XP is needed for me to be happy with that Quest.

     

    • 392 posts
    July 16, 2021 12:58 PM PDT

    I just leach off of everyone else, like some kind of psychic vampire.

    That reminds me of an old story......

    • 209 posts
    July 16, 2021 1:13 PM PDT

    When I played EQOA, I had loads of fun, but often wished there were more quests to break up the "grind" of grinding xp. Then when I played WoW, I was blown away by the number of quests. (Literally little golden exclamation points as far as the eye could see! Paradise!) At first, leveling by going from quest to quest to quest seemed like lots of fun. I even got the Loremaster Achievement for doing a number of quests no sane person would ever attempt. But eventually, once we all became savvy to how we were being led from quest hub to quest hub on invisible rails, questing itself began to seem like more of a grind than camping and killing mobs. At least with that, you were free to roam the world looking for camps instead of following a pre-determined path from quest hub to quest hub where the goal was to make sure you didn't miss any of those (by now hated) little golden exclamation points. I started to long for the old days of settling down and killing mobs with a group. Sure, it may not have been the most excitement I've ever had playing a game, but just sitting back and chilling with friends (or maybe strangers) while grinding on mobs was actually kind of fun in a laid-back, mellow, lazy kind of way. How could I have ever wanted more quests??

    I think after seeing both sides, I have to conclude that it is more than simple nostalgia making me wish for a return to camping. Even when it was slow, for me it was far preferable to endless meaningless quests for xp. I would like to see a decent number of quests in the world -- more than in EQOA but far less than in WoW. They should be plentiful enough to make up a decent part of the game, but still scarce enough and out-of-the-way enough that they feel meaningful to find and complete. I also think quests should be primarily associated with special gear, abilities, faction, etc. as far as rewards go. It's ok with me if I get a good chunk of xp for completing the quest too...but I would like to see quests be sparse enough -- and also long and involved enough -- that camping and grinding remains the primary means of leveling.

    And I'd better not ever see another little golden exclamation point.


    This post was edited by Gyldervane at July 16, 2021 1:25 PM PDT
    • 10 posts
    July 16, 2021 2:11 PM PDT

    Questing seems to always be the backbone of experience gain. It provides the player with an avenue to explore the world and learn about the lore, in the process of gaining experience and undergoing character progression. Killing mobs and running dungeons can be repetitive. Where on the other hand; questlines take you from place to place, introducing you to new characters, new adventures, and new environments.

    Realistically, I think a combination of quests, mob grinding, dungeons, exploration, solo content, and group content, all work best in concert. You should do a little bit of everything while leveling up. Leveling is learning in a way, and it's best to get a little taste of everything on your way up.

    However, everyone is different. It's nice to have a choice in the path you wish to take to level up, even if some methods are more efficient than others.

    • 1479 posts
    July 16, 2021 3:19 PM PDT

    Learning to advance in battle skills should only come from battling. Getting some flour for the baker isn't going to make you a better swordsman, but should reward you with a few coins and reputation.

     

    That's what quests are for : Rewards

     

    That's what's mob are for : Experience

     

     

    Mixing both makes an awfull dough where gathering crap and doing chores do improve unrelated things which are combat performances.

    • 10 posts
    July 16, 2021 3:55 PM PDT

    MauvaisOeil said:

    Learning to advance in battle skills should only come from battling. Getting some flour for the baker isn't going to make you a better swordsman, but should reward you with a few coins and reputation.

    Mixing both makes an awfull dough where gathering crap and doing chores do improve unrelated things which are combat performances.



    That's a really good point. Experience shouldn't be given lightly.

    Primary questlines and difficult tasks can however improve valuable qualities that make you a stronger character.
    e.g. Wisdom, cunning, composure, bravery, tactics, diplomacy and many others.

    Gaining a level can't be confined to combat experience. It is an integral part, but there are may valuable qualities that make an experienced player outside of combat. World experiences and education are a huge part of getting stronger. It's called 'experience' for a reason, you're accumulating experiences, which doing quests is a huge part of.

    • 521 posts
    July 17, 2021 1:11 AM PDT

    Killing mobs is fun. Questing is not fun.

    • 256 posts
    July 17, 2021 2:21 AM PDT

    I prefer grouping up to level. Typically, what this means for me in modern MMOs, is running dungeons to level because of the solo nature world content has. As long as grouping up is involved, I don't really care if I'm completing quests or trying to clear areas.

    I do have a slight preference towards killing mobs over questing, though. I think this is partly because of my history with running dungeons to level; and partly because of how quests can start feeling superficial.

    Like a few people have stated above, I would like quests to feel meaningful and impactful. I feel like there is a fundamental difference between a task and a quest. I feel like tasks involve more mundane concepts, contain common mobs, and have trivial outcomes. On the other hand, quests involve more exciting concepts, contain more challenging mobs, and have meaningful outcomes. My issue with a lot of games is a good portion of their "quests" end up being superficial tasks. 

    • 627 posts
    July 17, 2021 3:13 AM PDT
    15% from Quest and 80% from grouping killing and camping an area. And 5% from explorering and achivements.
    • 28 posts
    July 17, 2021 3:49 AM PDT

    Neither? Or better it depends on the design and so far I haven't seen a good one. Killing mobs gets boring and mind numbing. Questing tends to be the same, unfortunately, as quests are just used as placeholders for killing mobs and to be really annoying they send you out for the same stuff over and over. Like, hey can you go and kill 10 wolfes for me? Ok, if I have too... coming back the same NPC tells you: Great, can you go and kill 10 more for me? Umh, can I kill you instead?

    I don't want a game that gives me the feeling that the designers try to keep me occupied with the least possible input on their side. I want to be involved, excited, investigating, exploring and feeling rewarded not only through xp, but through having things happening, discover, successes on every turn. I want to be a kid, that explores a world full of amazing wonders and not an assembly line worker.


    This post was edited by Fiall at July 18, 2021 1:21 AM PDT
    • 1281 posts
    July 17, 2021 12:04 PM PDT

    BamBam said: 15% from Quest and 80% from grouping killing and camping an area. And 5% from explorering and achivements.

    I like this. I do think it could be better than EQ (og EQ had great lower level questing but only low/moderate higher level).

    • 326 posts
    July 17, 2021 4:35 PM PDT

     

    Organic.

    Experience from advancing Lore/perception/exploration.

    An XP curve increase for completing higher difficuly quest lines and for culling more difficult mob areas without dying x# of times. 

    Faction work of all kinds.

    Milestones reached in regard to an amount of orcs killed or resources harvested, et al.

    Experience rewards for grouping...

    And ya, grinding is here but last on my list

     

    • 560 posts
    July 17, 2021 4:44 PM PDT

    Edaemus said:

    Definitely killing mobs. I prefer to have quests be more meaningful than just simple experience.

    Completly agree.

    • 1019 posts
    July 19, 2021 6:37 AM PDT

    Killing mobs while making my way towards the namer for good loot.  Rince and repeat as nessisary or until I out level that few nameds that I'd been chaseing, and then move on to the next teir and repeat the process.