There was a thread for this a while ago here after it was first noticed on a stream.
Level indicator in NPC nameplates - Pantheon Forums (pantheonmmo.com)
I'm in the same boat that I'd rather have a danger indicator even if its shown in the UI rather then the actual number.
Gintoki88 said:There was a thread for this a while ago here after it was first noticed on a stream.
Level indicator in NPC nameplates - Pantheon Forums (pantheonmmo.com)
I'm in the same boat that I'd rather have a danger indicator even if its shown in the UI rather then the actual number.
Agreed 100%
I don't like the actual number of the mob's level shown, either. To use a Brad quote, it feels less like "world" and more like "game".
But in the real *world* we generally know what is dangerous and what isn't - particularly if we spend our lives mostly outdoors in undeveloped areas or as mercenaries or other fighters. Experienced people can look at a potential enemy (person or animal) and often get a fair idea what level of threat it represents. Size is far from the only factor - some small things are deadly and some large things are not.
Showing the level of what we look at is an approximation of this real world situation. Yes it goes a bit further since it is more exact but giving *no* idea is less realistic than giving a number, or a number range (the traditional blue, greem white etc. for example).
There is functionally no difference between a color-coded con system and level indicators. They serve the same purpose as a gauge of relative power between the player and the mob.
We don't know exaclty how power scaling works in Pantheon, but it's probably a safe bet that a mob at or near your player level will not be a pushover. If I'm level 32 and I see a mob that is in a range of 31-33, I will more than likely know that I will need to either find a group to kill it, or find a way around it. It's no different than if I saw that mob and it had a yellow nameplate, or if I had to hit a macro to see some yellow text.
Syrif said:Gintoki88 said:Its one thing to walk into a zone and see the first group of mobs show level 40 and be like "welp guess I wont be back here for a while"
Vs seeing them all con red and going "I'll be back in a few levels to see how they con later"
Exactly! There is more to test, explore, and learn with the color system than with stamped numbers that are just given. There are more possibilities and things to try out because the color range keeps an element of the unknown. It’s one thing to see a mob with the #31 or #43 on them, but it’s clearly another to perceive a range of the potential strength of the mobs in the zones and regions of Terminus with the color system.In Pantheon, you venture and learn along the way. You also collaborate with your peers about what is discovered. That is key to exploration. Contrarily in WoW, it’s just given to you. “Look at that wolf! He has a #5 on him! No wait, look at this creature in this cave over here! What could it be.. it’s Sabertooth.. I mean, it’s a #18!”
Taken from the thread I linked previously.
I'm honestly fine with numbers being displayed especially if it's only within a specific range of the character. Knowing the number doesn't automatically equate to knowing if i'll be able to kill the creature in my mind. I also don't think it would break my immersion anymore than the con system, names over the npc, or any other information being delivered to the player in this kind of way.
EQOA (and similarly, EQ I believe) just used a color system (which has been referenced above). I would prefer something like this as well. I would not like to see the level of the NPC and would rather leave it to my imagination to decide whether or not I should attack ("okay, yeah he's conned red, but is he only 3 levels higher than me or is he 10 levels higher than me..? Guess I'll whack him with my sword and find out!") I realize that in EQ (and potentially Pantheon as well) that the con system also gave a bit more information in the form of an RP response in the text chat that helped you figure out how difficult an NPC/enemy was, and although I'm not use to this, this would not bother me since it is not immersion breaking (in my opinion).
The color con system is not akin to showing levels, because color cons allow for sneaky under/over cons that can influence game play to spurising ends.
One example I remember is the Tae Ew in Temple of Cazic thule. DB cons they said, really cool dungeon they said. You get in there and the fight is like cuttting steak with a butter knife. Fire resists iirc and ice resists, most resists really and if maloed things hit, but not as hard, probably due to their thick lizard skin. and the AC, must have had outreageous AC as even the warrriors were getting nervous. A well oiled team would wipe on two, with the first one already half dead. Even in panic mode you could not get the first one dead fast enough.
It's things like that, that I think are fair play froma dev standpoint. Even or higher cons cautiously approached and conquered can be a kind of psychological war-fare(game-fare?) to give a false sense of secuirity, just like DB cons being perceived as doable from the temptations of riches deeper in yet humbled because they are clearly under-cons.
Im not saying everywhere, but enough to keep players on their toes: all that glitters is not gold, and; all looks golden to the jaundiced eye.
Hey guys, there's an orc up here, looks like he's a lvl 32, melee, with an armor buff, hp buff and damage shield, his proficiency is with a 2 hander, but he's carrying a mace and shield. He's married, 2 kids, 2bdrm 1 bath stone hut with a pond. Works for the city guard, has a pension plan and early retirement options.
Should I pull him?
There is a compelling reason why many of us feel strongly about the need for /con or some similar mechanic. Every good RPG has a strong story and any good story teller will tell you that what makes for a great story is the feelings it evokes in its audience. Of the many emotions EQ was able to create in its player base, there are two that few other games have been able to achieve and they are a sense of mystery and a feeling of fear. Along with being very hard to achieve, these two emotions are especially important because they heighten every other emotion, making them stronger and more meaningful. In essence they drive a great story and a meaningful RPG. While there is no single mechanic that EQ had that helped to achieve this, it was a blend of several that helped to create this sense of mystery and fear, the /con system is a major part. With mob levels listed right on the name plate the sense of mystery and fear are removed from the world. At a glance a player can tell what they will be facing, where the danger lies, and how easily to avoid it. It surprises me that VR is even considering having numbers on the nameplates since they have been pushing this idea of putting the E back into PVE. They have worked hard to come up with some fantastic systems like atmospheres and climates to make the environment more meaningful. And yet they seem to be overlooking the fact that a major part of the environment is the NPC’s that inhabit it. Why work so hard to have players engage with the environment and then remove a very meaningful way to make players engage with it via a /con system? This is one area I hope that VR will reexamine its reasoning and even if they don’t use the EQ /con system, that they will come up with some system that forces players to do something to determine a mobs relative strength in comparison to the player and not give a detailed number. It adds a very real level of strategy and engagement with the world that cannot be achieved any other way.