Please no artificial limits like this - people will just work around with alts or trading in high value vendor items.
If the goal is to tackle mudflation ,
This is just a function of progression. VR need to make sure that items are not immediatly obsolete each expansion. Also some very rare items should remain special and offer something unique that is never superceded.
e.g. good example of inflation as follows.
Best raid item in base game = Good Raid item in expansion 1 = Best group item in expansion 2 = Good group item in expansion 3
Bad example of mudflation is:
Best raid item in base game = Good Group item in expansion 1= vendor trash in expansion 2
If the goal is to tackle twinking
Lets not forget twinking only really takes place majorly on mature servers where lower level zones are near empty anyhow.
Plus its fun for those whom have already played out lower levels.
Being rejected from groups because you are not a twink is bogus - I have seen more people farming for twinks invite genuine newbies and let them loot everything they dont want.
Ifgoal is to tackle gold sellers
Limit valuable resellable drops by not being relootable by anaccount within a time limit and have equivilent drops as nodrop in a higher teir of content.
Doesnt stop the problem , but means farmers will need lots of accounts (greater cost) and genuine players can attain equivilent without paying for it.
Vixx said:Maybe thats Just it when EQ released we all wanted to be Heroes. I think that every one had centi longswords rotting in banks on alts and we gave them away was a good thing coin was worthless to alot of player.
You want to make a game that should be fun work, lets make it fun the NPCs can be the motivated by wealth not the PC Hereos we should be thriving to be.
Coin was far from worthless to most players. I clearly remember the first time I collected my first pp. And I remember why I collected to that point rather than spent it. Hell, early on my guild even provided an escort service from Freeport to Qeynos, specifically to gather pp for guild purposes. We'd waddle back from dungeons loaded to the teeth with anything we could carry and sometimes so encumbered that we could barely move, to maximize the amount of coin we were making on sales to vendors. We'd even use CHA buffs and illusions and sometimes even charm the vendors to increase those profits by tiny increments. It mattered. Hell for years you'd be hard pressed to have enough cash to buy all your spells and skills at appropriate levels. Coin mattered. Sometimes a lot, and in very direct correlation to character capability.
Centi longswords werent a thing until a few years after release. And their value decline was more about the availability of better items in later expansions. Even so, during all this time there were hoards of people that took great care to know what drops were valuable to vendors, stackable and light weight enough that they would prioritize looting those to minimize trips back to the vendors and maximize profit over time. Coin absolutely mattered.
Galden said:Please no artificial limits like this - people will just work around with alts or trading in high value vendor items.
If the goal is to tackle mudflation ,
VR need to make sure that items are not immediatly obsolete each expansion. Also some very rare items should remain special and offer something unique that is never superceded.
e.g. good example of inflation as follows.
Best raid item in base game = Good Raid item in expansion 1 = Best group item in expansion 2 = Good group item in expansion 3
Bad example of mudflation is:
Best raid item in base game = Good Group item in expansion 1= vendor trash in expansion 2
VR, please listen to this recommendation. I completely agree with Galden. There is nothing worse than feeling like you work your a** off for great loot, when in the end, there is just a better weapon at the beginning of a new expansion.
(**cough, cough**... Destiny is a prime example of this issue)
Feyshtey said:AbsoluteTerror said:i dont know if this was a suggestion brought up or not but How about make currency non transferable to other players. You can only transfer currency account bound. Meaning i cant transfer $$$ to anyone with a different acct#.
So if you dual box then you're soL. i can transfer $$$ to my mule b/c its on the same acct as my main. And same thing applies to item and gear. Done problem solve. But i know this wont happen you will have "those" i want to give my friend my old gear protest crowd, so we're stuck with RMT deal with it.
Equally bad idea to limiting max coin. And the most likely result would be that players would collectively decide on a standard thing as the defacto "coin". LIke, pearls or gems. Something of value that's stackable and light weight. Now you havent solved the problem. You've just made the players create a system that should have already been in the game, and you've lost the ability to easily monitor and adjust the economy. You've also probably screwed any tradeskills that need gems, but that's beside the point.
I dont think it kills the economy. Players buy thing from the market or auction houses in their respective city or towns that other player put up for sale. its still being monitor by player to adjust to the price of said item +/-.
the only way RMT would make real money would be to place an item on the market/AH (auction house) and be in contact with said play for that item. They will have to sell it for 1 cent against other player who have a chance to snipe it lol.
Vandraad said:AbsoluteTerror said:i dont know if this was a suggestion brought up or not but How about make currency non transferable to other players. You can only transfer currency account bound. Meaning i cant transfer $$$ to anyone with a different acct#.
So if you dual box then you're soL. i can transfer $$$ to my mule b/c its on the same acct as my main. And same thing applies to item and gear. Done problem solve. But i know this wont happen you will have "those" i want to give my friend my old gear protest crowd, so we're stuck with RMT deal with it.
Which means you can't buy/sell anything to anybody..or did you not think about that at all. You would kill any possibility for a player economy based on coin.
Crafter A makes a shield and put it on the market for sale. i buy it off the market/auction house/bank whatever. how is that destroying the economy? i got the item, the market send him the $$$. we both win.
AbsoluteTerror said:I dont think it kills the economy. Players buy thing from the market or auction houses in their respective city or towns that other player put up for sale. its still being monitor by player to adjust to the price of said item +/-.
the only way RMT would make real money would be to place an item on the market/AH (auction house) and be in contact with said play for that item. They will have to sell it for 1 cent against other player who have a chance to snipe it lol.
You said non-transferrable to other players. If there is an AH then RMT uses the AH, but I have no idea what you are talking about with 1 cent and sniping. You list an item like copper ore for way above normal value and the gold seller/RMT comes in and buys it for the absurd price.
Feyshtey said:Vixx said:Maybe thats Just it when EQ released we all wanted to be Heroes. I think that every one had centi longswords rotting in banks on alts and we gave them away was a good thing coin was worthless to alot of player.
You want to make a game that should be fun work, lets make it fun the NPCs can be the motivated by wealth not the PC Hereos we should be thriving to be.
Coin was far from worthless to most players. I clearly remember the first time I collected my first pp. And I remember why I collected to that point rather than spent it. Hell, early on my guild even provided an escort service from Freeport to Qeynos, specifically to gather pp for guild purposes. We'd waddle back from dungeons loaded to the teeth with anything we could carry and sometimes so encumbered that we could barely move, to maximize the amount of coin we were making on sales to vendors. We'd even use CHA buffs and illusions and sometimes even charm the vendors to increase those profits by tiny increments. It mattered. Hell for years you'd be hard pressed to have enough cash to buy all your spells and skills at appropriate levels. Coin mattered. Sometimes a lot, and in very direct correlation to character capability.
Centi longswords werent a thing until a few years after release. And their value decline was more about the availability of better items in later expansions. Even so, during all this time there were hoards of people that took great care to know what drops were valuable to vendors, stackable and light weight enough that they would prioritize looting those to minimize trips back to the vendors and maximize profit over time. Coin absolutely mattered.
There was a big change for when your leveling and filling out spell books trying to save for that next piece of banded and when your max level filled out spell book and your just logging in to see if a raid target pops and looking for something to pass the time. One you never have a plat to spare so a cap is pointless the other you are just hoarding plat a healthy market says we have to spend it.
This thread has been promoted as part of my CM content, please continue the discussion while abiding by the guidelines. :)
"Hot Topic - Limiting Coin - What are your thoughts on forced coin limits? Have your say here on the official forums: https://seforums.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/12676/limit-coin #MMORPG #CommunityMatters"
Artificial limits on maximum coinage a character can have goes against the concept of Worlds not Games.
On the other hand you could have localized banks for both items and cash with limits on each. Your faction/diplomacy/prestige with said bank will control the limit on how much liquid wealth they will willingly store for you while also charging a scaling fee for it.
The why that is important could be two fold. Coinage can/should have both weight and volume, making coin exchange rates its own mini game. Secondly the death penalty could include an automatic loss of a portion of the coinage on your body.
Between the fees charged on cash in banks and coinage lost due to death or encumbrance you can greatly influence the amount of inflation. If VR got really fancy with it those two rates could fluctuate based on the target server cash balance and where the cash is pooling.
I guess you would need to add in separate mechanics like you cannot teleport in any fashion while encumbered (I think this is a good idea in general) and being over your encumbrance max will root you. For very large cash exchanges that are not practical to transport players could get bank notes or do account transfers from localized banks, again at a fee.
Trasak said:Artificial limits on maximum coinage a character can have goes against the concept of Worlds not Games.
On the other hand you could have localized banks for both items and cash with limits on each. Your faction/diplomacy/prestige with said bank will control the limit on how much liquid wealth they will willingly store for you while also charging a scaling fee for it.
The why that is important could be two fold. Coinage can/should have both weight and volume, making coin exchange rates its own mini game. Secondly the death penalty could include an automatic loss of a portion of the coinage on your body.
Between the fees charged on cash in banks and coinage lost due to death or encumbrance you can greatly influence the amount of inflation. If VR got really fancy with it those two rates could fluctuate based on the target server cash balance and where the cash is pooling.
I guess you would need to add in separate mechanics like you cannot teleport in any fashion while encumbered (I think this is a good idea in general) and being over your encumbrance max will root you. For very large cash exchanges that are not practical to transport players could get bank notes or do account transfers from localized banks, again at a fee.
How is saying you need to put coin in a coin pouch it can only hold x number of coins any diffent than giving it wieght really how many knew wow was capped at just over 21k at release.
Vixx said:How is saying you need to put coin in a coin pouch it can only hold x number of coins any diffent than giving it wieght really how many knew wow was capped at just over 21k at release.
In short you could dedicate more slots of your inventory space to more coin bags rather than items. Each bag having a coin limit and each type of coin having a specific weight based on the material its made from. Its certainly up for debate how much this adds to the game play but it is an option that could drive a greater control on the liquid cash in the game as well as create a game play loop around being a money exchanger out in the field.
Vixx said:There was a big change for when your leveling and filling out spell books trying to save for that next piece of banded and when your max level filled out spell book and your just logging in to see if a raid target pops and looking for something to pass the time. One you never have a plat to spare so a cap is pointless the other you are just hoarding plat a healthy market says we have to spend it.
In one case a limit is pointless (during leveling) and in the other a healthy market says you have to spend it? Fully agree on the former. For the latter... design reasons to spend it. Make the game better by adding content that creates large money sinks in ways that don't impact character power much, if at all. Elaborate cosmetics, from armor to mounts. And no, I'm not talking about anything beyond traditional horses or maybe camels or something. But with garrish tack or loud paint (in horse parlance) coloring. Houses. Furnishings.
You could set up a justice system. Where if a faction dislikes you is able to capture you, you have to pay fines (sliding scale based on your total coin holdings) to be released. And in conjunction a bride system in the game, where if you dump enough cash at a faction you get a temporary boost to your standing.
You could pay for a coach service that moves your character safely through the gameworld at a high fee, and over a slightly shorter time than it would take you to run.
You can add in fees for equipment repair. You could add in taxation for withdrawls over X coin. You could add in taxes on the AH for selling items. You could make banks local only (no withdrawls of coin that was in BankA from BankB) but then add a money transfer fee so that the withdrawl is possible but at a cost.
Any of these are better IMO to artificial caps and invisible walls. They are solutions which would generally have the potential to make the game world more interesting, more enjoyable. more deep, more compelling and more believable. I wish more developers chose to take the hard road knowing that the game would be better rather than the easy way out. Especially when the easy way almost always has a slew of unintended consequences that end up pissing players off constantly. There are ways to solve the "problem" that you're describing that actually make things better, rather than just hit you over the head with illogical and jarring caps.
Feyshtey said:*snip*
You could set up a justice system. Where if a faction dislikes you is able to capture you, you have to pay fines (sliding scale based on your total coin holdings) to be released. And in conjunction a bride system in the game, where if you dump enough cash at a faction you get a temporary boost to your standing.
*snip*
Hilarious typo. Though I do think the idea of basically paying for temporary faction buffs is an interesting idea that could be used as both a cash sink and an item sink.
AbsoluteTerror said:i dont know if this was a suggestion brought up or not but How about make currency non transferable to other players. You can only transfer currency account bound. Meaning i cant transfer $$$ to anyone with a different acct#.
So if you dual box then you're soL. i can transfer $$$ to my mule b/c its on the same acct as my main. And same thing applies to item and gear. Done problem solve. But i know this wont happen you will have "those" i want to give my friend my old gear protest crowd, so we're stuck with RMT deal with it.
Not just folks that want to give items to friends. You do that and you pretty much nuke any kind of ingame economy from orbit. And if you don't nuke it from orbit then all people have to do to circumvent it is to sell themselves a crap item at the price they want to exchange.
All that said, I'm not a big fan of these kind of major restrictions. I like ingame economies. The major issue is staying on top of hackers and dupers before things get too far out of hand. The best way to handle mudflation is fun moneysinks, creative moneysinks, and keeping those less disirable elements from getting too crazy. It's the old eternal vigilance struggle. It's possible in the future with more data for games like these being processed more by cloud servers or whatever the next iteration of that is rather than being heavily client-based, some of the duping and hacking issues that cause ingame economies to go nuts will be dealt with. But you can never fully get rid of that problem without wrecking the fun of the virtual world itself. So again, eternal vigilance.
Feyshtey said:You could add in taxation for withdrawls over X coin. You could add in taxes on the AH for selling items.
Feyshtey I really like these ideas, good way of bleeding currency from the economy, easy to impliment, and easy for the developers to tune.
Other variations on the same theme, not really advocating for any of them just putting it out there: You could add a tax anytime a player trades coin with another player and make the tax higher at the AH, add a tax anytime you withdraw or deposite money into your bank without limitations (Dont do both obviously but pick one), have daily withdraw limits from bank account without tax (pretty much what you said already) to help lower level players gold go farther.
No limit - the limit will be on characters based on their carry weight as coins in Pantheon will have weight as far as we know. When you are 'full' you will have to go sell and bank. That will be when the limit is reached. I don't see a benefit to limiting coin someone can store in their bank.
I think restricting the mere posession of whatever we deem "too much" money is not really going to help with mudflation. That is a much more complex, systemic issue to control.
Separately, I believe focusing security checks on the transfer of money, in real time, from one char to another would be a much better way to target behavior like RMT for gold & items that VR wants to prohibit.