This will most likely get somne push back. What if to keep Mudflation and RMT down they limit coin to x coin per level? Keep it on the lower side I know people can still stock pile gold bars are what ever the rare resorce is but that will devalue with gear as the game ages. Keep any thing you can buy in mass form the vendor at a very low sell back to prevent storing store bought items in mass to just sell back. In lore kings with castles and gaurds have great wealth not the adventures or the tradesmans running around the kingdoms. This would also keep the game more accessible years down the line.
That goes directly counter to their desire to have players enjoy the leveling process, rather than race to the top. If you limit the amount of coin a player may have based on their level, how many will power thru the levels just to have access to more coin?
And it doesn't really impact mudflation much, if at all. Just because a character can only have X coin doesn't mean that their other characters can't store what they need. This system almost ensures that players have multiple mule characters just to store wealth. And even if they didn't there would be players that served as brokers to buy high price items and hand them off to lower level players that werent allowed to hold that much coin at once. Particularly if you're part of a guild this would happen with regularity. The items would still get bought and sold, and you've forced an emergent behavior that's open to exploitation by dishonest people for little if any benefits.
Vixx said:This will most likely get somne push back. What if to keep Mudflation and RMT down they limit coin to x coin per level? Keep it on the lower side I know people can still stock pile gold bars are what ever the rare resorce is but that will devalue with gear as the game ages. Keep any thing you can buy in mass form the vendor at a very low sell back to prevent storing store bought items in mass to just sell back. In lore kings with castles and gaurds have great wealth not the adventures or the tradesmans running around the kingdoms. This would also keep the game more accessible years down the line.
At one time, a long time ago, they mentioned that they had worked with an "actual economist" on the world economy. I can't vouch for what that means in the post-Brad era.
The limit could be per account. but agian this was a thought on keeping the RMT and the Cheesretos away. i have been in 3 DKP guilds in games that cap dkp, added caps or reset. When new content was comming so people would spend on gear and not just hold them waiting for the new stuff. I was thinking level as in when they move the level cap up they could increese the cap slightly maybe you can get a new coin purse or something.
This sounds like an awful limitation to place upon all players in the name of fighting RMT. I'd rather have RMT than a ceiling on how much currency one can have. This wouldn't even stop RMT either it would just shift how the business is done similar to games in the past, likely to specific valuable items. Diablo 2 comes to mind with a Stone of Jordan used as currency.
Vandraad said:That is a terrible idea. It's bad for everyone all around and would do nothing to solve mudlfation which, if monitored properly, is actually healthy for the game.
Its health for a game when low level gear is selling to twinks for greater prices than near end game gear. When max level players are farming low level named to sell the twink items taking up low level camping spots.
unlimited coin is centralized digital banking in a fantasy game.
Its not limiting what you can do with your coin it forces you to spend it inject in to the game level crafting ect.
i dont know if this was a suggestion brought up or not but How about make currency non transferable to other players. You can only transfer currency account bound. Meaning i cant transfer $$$ to anyone with a different acct#.
So if you dual box then you're soL. i can transfer $$$ to my mule b/c its on the same acct as my main. And same thing applies to item and gear. Done problem solve. But i know this wont happen you will have "those" i want to give my friend my old gear protest crowd, so we're stuck with RMT deal with it.
AbsoluteTerror said:i dont know if this was a suggestion brought up or not but How about make currency non transferable to other players. You can only transfer currency account bound. Meaning i cant transfer $$$ to anyone with a different acct#.
So if you dual box then you're soL. i can transfer $$$ to my mule b/c its on the same acct as my main. And same thing applies to item and gear. Done problem solve. But i know this wont happen you will have "those" i want to give my friend my old gear protest crowd, so we're stuck with RMT deal with it.
Equally bad idea to limiting max coin. And the most likely result would be that players would collectively decide on a standard thing as the defacto "coin". LIke, pearls or gems. Something of value that's stackable and light weight. Now you havent solved the problem. You've just made the players create a system that should have already been in the game, and you've lost the ability to easily monitor and adjust the economy. You've also probably screwed any tradeskills that need gems, but that's beside the point.
AbsoluteTerror said:i dont know if this was a suggestion brought up or not but How about make currency non transferable to other players. You can only transfer currency account bound. Meaning i cant transfer $$$ to anyone with a different acct#.
So if you dual box then you're soL. i can transfer $$$ to my mule b/c its on the same acct as my main. And same thing applies to item and gear. Done problem solve. But i know this wont happen you will have "those" i want to give my friend my old gear protest crowd, so we're stuck with RMT deal with it.
Which means you can't buy/sell anything to anybody..or did you not think about that at all. You would kill any possibility for a player economy based on coin.
Currency caps are, in some games, a device imposed on free players to make their lives so miserable that they become willing to subscribe or otherwise spend real money.
I don't think we want to torture subscribers to encourage them to unsubscribe. That doesn't have *quite* the benefit for the game as doing it the other way around.
Oh, if only there was a potentially better way.. ;)
It's also possible to utilize the same design philosophy in a hybrid or pure coin implementation, with varying degrees of convenience, success, and restrictions.
vjek said:Oh, if only there was a potentially better way.. ;)
It's also possible to utilize the same design philosophy in a hybrid or pure coin implementation, with varying degrees of convenience, success, and restrictions.
I like the look of that it does not look to limit players that play longer hours been playing longer but keeps the game accessable for new players who may not have friends to help them at the start.
vjek said:I can't say I'm a huge fan of the idea. but that's mainly because I'm a much more casual player these days. The write up says right up front that it's not convenient, and for those with limited playtime trying to find others that have something of roughly equal value to trade for what I want would be problematic.Oh, if only there was a potentially better way.. ;)
It's also possible to utilize the same design philosophy in a hybrid or pure coin implementation, with varying degrees of convenience, success, and restrictions.
But then again I'm not a fan of auction houses and prefer the EC tunnel method. So....
This comes from a place of concern for the game and getting new players to join over the Years or decades that it will hopefully remain online.
I loved EQ2 maybe even more than EQ or Vangaurd but at one point the guild I was in people i was playing with started to sell updates and loot rights this was at first away to Not just always give away are time or have 100 people asking if they could fill spots to get a mythic update. but it turned to every one wanting to run this or that to farm platium most of us had no use for nothing to spend it on.
When krono was added this got much worse and I stopped playing At this point I had over 60 krono on my account over a year of game time. I will admit i spent all that krono over the years in TLPs mostly to get items from camps that are now perma camped from people selling the loot rights.
but it was not worth the cost of what it did to the game we went from giving away loot filling spots with people we met in pick up groups to help them out. To just selling what would go wasted to farming for profit all before Krono even became a thing.
I dont think I will have any trouble with being coin short in pantheon. I am retired with to much time on my hands I would just like the game to be welcoming and helpful to new players an escape from the Real World where the all mighty dollar is all that matters at the end of the day.
Vixx said:but it turned to every one wanting to run this or that to farm platium most of us had no use for nothing to spend it on.
When krono was added this got much worse and I stopped playing At this point I had over 60 krono on my account over a year of game time. I will admit i spent all that krono over the years in TLPs mostly to get items from camps that are now perma camped from people selling the loot rights.
These issues can be mitigated with good design choices. There should always be things at max-level for spending decent amounts of money on. Currency-sinks are important to prevent inflation. There should also be mechanisms in place to make sure there is almost always a use for gear drops: whether that's personally using, selling, or even breaking down for materials.
Common currency-sinks are things like gear reparing (which could be expanded to require broken-down components of other gear drops), the need for buying consumables (arrows/potions/food&drink/powders for spells/etc), housing upkeep, and broker fees. Currency-sinks could also be expanded to include things like having to pay upkeep fees for keeping multiple bank tabs open or for use in RP-oriented activities, like purchasing drinks at the tavern.
Regarding perma-camps, perma-camps especially happen when a) rare/important drops come from unique mobs that are easy to kill solo, b) overpowered characters of any level can return to lower-level content to get full rewards without any challenge, and c) when multi-boxing is allowed (especially prevalent in EQ/EQ2 where you'll find a multi-boxer camping rare named with a full group of boxed characters).
To help dissuade perma-camps, make rare drops be possible in multiple locations and/or have those rare drops come from challenging content that can't be soloed/boxed (i.e. requires a full group of active players). Also make sure that there are multiple avenues for wealth-generation throughout all levels of the game, perma-camps especially become bad when those items are the best way to make money easily.
Limiting currency isn't the answer, but proper design choices in other areas of the game can help address the concerns you're raising.
@Sicario - Agree.
Also methods to mitigate issues that VR has talked about include named spawns with good loot drops being dynamic spawns with unpredictable timing and location. They have also discussed that they desire there to be multiple mobs in multiple zones that drop comparable loot. These would reduce the single location BIS/perma-camp issues that we've seen in past titles.
Adding money sinks does not change the game from for the coin to for the Adventure
Fido did not begin his jorney to become rich the others did not join him to become rich they did it to save the world for the adventure to help one another thats what i want to see return to MMOs.
It just makes coin more needed and pushes players more to the EVER ONE NEEDS MONEY meme we see in games today.
MMOs or how I feel where a Large DnD adventure in Brads world back in eq early eq2 we where there to help each other and have a good time not farm 1million gold worthless mounts or what have you every thing you wanted was looted you could go camp it.
The fellowship were 9 heroes. There were thousands of others highly motivated by wealth.
Limiting coin doesn't really alter the way the economy works. It just forces alternatives for values above that cap. If I can only hold 1000 platinum pieces, but the Sword of Badass I want is worth more than that to the seller, he's just going to say I need to pay him 1000 plat + 10 gold bars. And now I'm out of plat and.... NEED MORE PLAT!!!
It would also introduce an ironic wrinkle for higher value items. I have 850 out of the 1000 coin limit. I want to sell a thing that commonly goes for 200 coin. Now what? I have to go dump 50 coin into something so I can make a sale at market value? Or worse, I am at the 1000 coin limit; Now I can't sell anything, even to a vendor? Unless I first buy up something I don't even want to make coin room?
Again this doesn't actually alter the way the game economy operates. It just puts a hassle tax on anyone that actually has coin. Which would eventually be most players anyway, as you pointed out from your past experiences.
Vixx said:back in eq early eq2 we where there to help each other and have a good time not farm 1million gold worthless mounts or what have you every thing you wanted was looted you could go camp it.
That was not my experience in early EQ. I could camp a great many things, but not all the things and not all the time. But what I did do for the camps I couldn't get into (or wasn't interested in spending the time camping) was farm other items to sell/trade to get them. Player trading was a massive part of my EQ experience. I'd bet the majority of items I ever had in the game were bought/sold/traded for across all my characters.
Maybe thats Just it when EQ released we all wanted to be Heroes. I think that every one had centi longswords rotting in banks on alts and we gave them away was a good thing coin was worthless to alot of player.
You want to make a game that should be fun work, lets make it fun the NPCs can be the motivated by wealth not the PC Hereos we should be thriving to be.
I think am looking For something that will never be agian The Rathe from what i was told was a Unique server with a large set of like minded players that was like winning the lotto in the gaming world and it only moved to early EQ2 becuase so many went to the same server.
Feyshtey said:The fellowship were 9 heroes. There were thousands of others highly motivated by wealth.
Limiting coin doesn't really alter the way the economy works. It just forces alternatives for values above that cap. If I can only hold 1000 platinum pieces, but the Sword of Badass I want is worth more than that to the seller, he's just going to say I need to pay him 1000 plat + 10 gold bars. And now I'm out of plat and.... NEED MORE PLAT!!!
It would also introduce an ironic wrinkle for higher value items. I have 850 out of the 1000 coin limit. I want to sell a thing that commonly goes for 200 coin. Now what? I have to go dump 50 coin into something so I can make a sale at market value? Or worse, I am at the 1000 coin limit; Now I can't sell anything, even to a vendor? Unless I first buy up something I don't even want to make coin room?
Again this doesn't actually alter the way the game economy operates. It just puts a hassle tax on anyone that actually has coin. Which would eventually be most players anyway, as you pointed out from your past experiences.
Agreed, and if anything this type of system would just encourage more RMT since it'd be less hassle, and give much more market power to those who go through an effort to create alts and guilds to bank plat for purchasing power.