Matrulak said:So, is there any issue using Unity assets in a productive environment? Im not familiar with the Unity license agreements. If it is legal to use the assets, and they look good, is thee any other issue?
I'm not sure if you are aware, but the developers of Everquest used many sound effects from a third party sound library.
The reason why they stopped using Unity assets is because they wouldn't blend with custom assets and also caused performance issues (mainly shader related I think).
Jimmy "Tourke" Lane talked all about it in his environmental segment during a newsletter.
I think I was most surprised that a Cash Shop is on the table. The demo was unimpressive.
"Will there be a Cash Shop", is a pretty straightforward question and I was surprised the answer wasn't an unequivocal no. I thought VR has a hard stance on Cash Shops, but apparently not. Apprently they are reserving the right to install a cash shop when it suits them, which is no different than any other developer or publisher.
I stopped watching the stream at that point and decided I would check it out later on YouTube. I checked it out later and can't say I'm optimistic this demo will land VR an investor.
Best case scenario, it looks like this game is heading towards a cash shop to keep the lights on for VR. Free piece of advice for VR, you should embrace this reality and get your marketing and community management communications aligned. You have a Public Relations / Marketing Director making comments about a cash shop on the one hand, and then you have a Community Manager locking posts on your forum discussing those very same comments.
It's a really bad look for your company, and you really can't afford to look worse.
Olympeus said:I think I was most surprised that a Cash Shop is on the table. The demo was unimpressive.
"Will there be a Cash Shop", is a pretty straightforward question and I was surprised the answer wasn't an unequivocal no. I thought VR has a hard stance on Cash Shops, but apparently not. Apprently they are reserving the right to install a cash shop when it suits them, which is no different than any other developer or publisher.
I stopped watching the stream at that point and decided I would check it out later on YouTube. I checked it out later and can't say I'm optimistic this demo will land VR an investor.
Best case scenario, it looks like this game is heading towards a cash shop to keep the lights on for VR. Free piece of advice for VR, you should embrace this reality and get your marketing and community management communications aligned. You have a Public Relations / Marketing Director making comments about a cash shop on the one hand, and then you have a Community Manager locking posts on your forum discussing those very same comments.
It's a really bad look for your company, and you really can't afford to look worse.
Cash shop is certainly a concern for me. They say it'll be cosmetic only, but this doesn't mean it wont turn to p2w over time. Even if it's only cosmetic, it's still something I do not want to see. Ashes of Creation is offering cosmetic character creation options and cycling them monthly. Seems like a huge cash grab when the game isn't even close to releasing yet.
Olympeus said:I think I was most surprised that a Cash Shop is on the table. The demo was unimpressive.
"Will there be a Cash Shop", is a pretty straightforward question and I was surprised the answer wasn't an unequivocal no. I thought VR has a hard stance on Cash Shops, but apparently not. Apprently they are reserving the right to install a cash shop when it suits them, which is no different than any other developer or publisher.
I stopped watching the stream at that point and decided I would check it out later on YouTube. I checked it out later and can't say I'm optimistic this demo will land VR an investor.
Best case scenario, it looks like this game is heading towards a cash shop to keep the lights on for VR. Free piece of advice for VR, you should embrace this reality and get your marketing and community management communications aligned. You have a Public Relations / Marketing Director making comments about a cash shop on the one hand, and then you have a Community Manager locking posts on your forum discussing those very same comments.
It's a really bad look for your company, and you really can't afford to look worse.
Please see my post from the cash shop thread for the answer. There is a big IF as well, so just because it was stated that we may, doesn't mean it will definitely happen, we can't predict the future or how revenue will go, if we need a cosmetic store for more revenue then we will address that at that time. We are just being transparent and saying it could be a possibility.
https://seforums.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/12596/a-cash-shop-is-being-considered/view/post_id/245147
"This is not correct at all mate. A lot of things happens behind the scenes that we don't bring to the public for privacy and legal reasons. In this day and age though, to survive with enough revenue to keep the server hampsters fed and watered plus enough staff to manage and maintain the game for years to come and all of the overheads that come with such a big game, some kind of cosmetic shop is almost expected, yet we are completely against any kind of pay to win system.
I know other games have stated this in the past and lied, I've been personally affected too and my trust levels diminished severely after companies say one thing, hook you in and then go back on their word but that is not what Visionary Realms is about, we're gamers that have been hit by this and are completely against that type of behaviour and we also know our community a lot better than most other companies and know that if we pulled a stunt like that it would most likely cripple us.
We continue to view a subscription model as the best option for us and our community, IF we need to implement a cosmetic shop we will do so with it being as unintrusive as possible but still enabling people who really enjoy fashion in their MMORPG experience to support the game while the rest of our player base can pay their sub and play the game their way without utilising the cosmetic store.
This has come up a few times now so I wanted to address it, it was just brushed over quickly because we have no hard set plans for one but we need to keep our options open if we lack the subscription revenue to survive, it will be an option to keep the game alive for you all to play.
On that note, I'm going to close this down as it's all speculation and assumptions at this point, we are a long way off even considering this."
So I was very happy with the stream. If VR had said "we're giving you a peek of what opening day will look like" then sure, I'd join in on various complaints. But for what I expected, it was great. I saw a lot of game functions that I had not seen before and I saw game systems that I have seen before and they all worked quite well. I even learned a bunch of things about a class that I plan to play.
Most importantly to me, I saw clear progress. That is the only standard that I believe counts in watching others creating something as complex as a world.
Nanfoodle said:I loved what I saw, my big problem is the great story/dialog in the middle of the dungeon. I have yet to play an MMO where my team takes time to let you enjoy story. Its all rush rush rush. Are there any tools that can be added to let you enjoy story if your team makes you rush? Other then dropping your team and being stranded in the middle of the dungeon?
I was thinking the same thing
Aethor said:@Kilsin: Considering that it's approximately 7 years into the game development, can you please post here an official confirmation or denial regarding whether what we saw in the stream were Unity resources or not?
A simple "Yes, it was Unity resources" or "No, it wasn't, it's our own work" would do.
If there is no response, that will tell us something.
If there is a response, and it was Unity resources, it means the game is still years from being released.
Yes Kilsin - tell us your guity, otherwise we can only assume you are guity. :P
vjek said:Agree with Vandraads assessment, with the following additions:
Everything is too dark, everywhere, all the time. I mean, really.. there's many many times where the screen is basically pitch black. If he is supposed to be carrying a torch for 99% of the demo? Tell him to equip a freaking torch!Crafting is in place? Uh.. what? Nephele just said the underlying systems had to be built, still? Are they built, then, or is this more or leftover hardcoding, or what?
And yeah, this is all default unity assets, or if it's not, it strongly appears to be. It's very strange to see default Unity assets, or a reasonable hand-drawn facsimile of default Unity assets, especially in the cave areas, almost 7 years in. Most of the Rogue abilities continue down the path of being overpowered, so I offer my condolences to the Rogues on the inevitable future nerfs. :) I played an EQ1 and EQ2 Rogue/Brigand, so I feel your future pain.
Having said all that, if the intent is to release this demo environment to the public as a free self contained experience, I'm 100% in favor of such a plan.
I like the darkness. I will be awesome to have races that can see in the dark. It's part of the enviorment. If you need to carry torches that's cool. Or if you have a wizard who can provide a light spell would be awsome. Or a "See in the dark" spell. I think the aggro range should increase when you do have a torch. It definately adds to inter-class dependabilty. it's like, finally a developer that finds the darkness important.
Kilsin said:Olympeus said:I think I was most surprised that a Cash Shop is on the table. The demo was unimpressive.
"Will there be a Cash Shop", is a pretty straightforward question and I was surprised the answer wasn't an unequivocal no. I thought VR has a hard stance on Cash Shops, but apparently not. Apprently they are reserving the right to install a cash shop when it suits them, which is no different than any other developer or publisher.
I stopped watching the stream at that point and decided I would check it out later on YouTube. I checked it out later and can't say I'm optimistic this demo will land VR an investor.
Best case scenario, it looks like this game is heading towards a cash shop to keep the lights on for VR. Free piece of advice for VR, you should embrace this reality and get your marketing and community management communications aligned. You have a Public Relations / Marketing Director making comments about a cash shop on the one hand, and then you have a Community Manager locking posts on your forum discussing those very same comments.
It's a really bad look for your company, and you really can't afford to look worse.
Please see my post from the cash shop thread for the answer. There is a big IF as well, so just because it was stated that we may, doesn't mean it will definitely happen, we can't predict the future or how revenue will go, if we need a cosmetic store for more revenue then we will address that at that time. We are just being transparent and saying it could be a possibility.
https://seforums.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/12596/a-cash-shop-is-being-considered/view/post_id/245147
"This is not correct at all mate. A lot of things happens behind the scenes that we don't bring to the public for privacy and legal reasons. In this day and age though, to survive with enough revenue to keep the server hampsters fed and watered plus enough staff to manage and maintain the game for years to come and all of the overheads that come with such a big game, some kind of cosmetic shop is almost expected, yet we are completely against any kind of pay to win system.
I know other games have stated this in the past and lied, I've been personally affected too and my trust levels diminished severely after companies say one thing, hook you in and then go back on their word but that is not what Visionary Realms is about, we're gamers that have been hit by this and are completely against that type of behaviour and we also know our community a lot better than most other companies and know that if we pulled a stunt like that it would most likely cripple us.We continue to view a subscription model as the best option for us and our community, IF we need to implement a cosmetic shop we will do so with it being as unintrusive as possible but still enabling people who really enjoy fashion in their MMORPG experience to support the game while the rest of our player base can pay their sub and play the game their way without utilising the cosmetic store.
This has come up a few times now so I wanted to address it, it was just brushed over quickly because we have no hard set plans for one but we need to keep our options open if we lack the subscription revenue to survive, it will be an option to keep the game alive for you all to play.
On that note, I'm going to close this down as it's all speculation and assumptions at this point, we are a long way off even considering this."
If it is added , all the items in the shop need to be able to be earned in game.
Nekentros said:Matrulak said:So, is there any issue using Unity assets in a productive environment? Im not familiar with the Unity license agreements. If it is legal to use the assets, and they look good, is thee any other issue?
I'm not sure if you are aware, but the developers of Everquest used many sound effects from a third party sound library.
I was not aware of this, but its pretty interesting. Thanks for sharing ;)
But that is basically my point: Some previous posts sound like it is a really bad thing to use these assets. For me, if there are no legal issues, its a good idea to use what is there, if it fits my requirements. Fragile already mentioned some issues with these assets though.
I still dont think its such a big issue as some posts here suggest ;) But maybe i just read them too dramatically?!
What i did not like was the quest mechanics: where he had to bring that npc a fish and despite already having one he had to fetch another one just to trigger the next step of the quest.
Early Everquest handled it better, you could simply give the npcs items you already have.
Whilst I like seeing Cohh's genuinely reaction to the game, I still would prefer to see a dev-lead, concise, explained and presented walk-through.
Waiting for Cohh to stumble over 'stuff' can be teeth-grindingly painful sometimes.
I appreciate the game is supposed to be experienced, to a good extent, as an unfolding discovery with little hand-holding, but, when it's not you doing that discovering, it can be quite tedious and frustrating.
The exploration aspect is a big one, sure, but when you are wanting to show off all the game's features in an entertaining way, I think getting someone who knows what they are doing to 'present' them is probably better.
Like when you go to a tourist destination, it is often better to use a guide, else you will miss stuff and run out of time.
Maybe do both ways?
Alexander said: But will we see many players floating around radiating ethereal energy from their hearts after theyve found that artifact? Im slightly wary of vfx promulgation.
This was my thought on seeing that effect too.
Honestly, I'm not really sure how to respond to the demo as a whole. Mostly because I'm uncertain of how much of this is just a quick mash-up of the systems just to show how they work, and to prove that they are fully implemented and functioning, or how much of it is reflective of what actual gameplay might be like, including if this is a good representation of how they're imagining starting a new character in Pantheon is going to be.
I really liked the amount of detail in the perception system and lore. The thief skills were looking like a lot of fun, too, both in and out of combat. And since it's been brought up, I'm also personally a fan of real darkness and needing to accomodate for it, I think it fits nicely with the overall idea of putting the Environment back in PvE, alongside the climbing and acclimation systems.
Other than that, though, I was generally underwhelmed. Part of it could be that I'm already familiar with most of the mechanics and have seen them at play in much more interesting environments (like Amberfaet, which is simply stunning). Part of it though is that it starts off in an incredibly generic way. Fresh off the boat, follow instructions, get herded into a dungeon. It came off as very linear, but it was also kind of hard to tell since at times they just told Cohh were to go, and at one point straight-up gave him the key he needed. Would he have had to have kept searching around until he found that key in order to progress otherwise? Was there even a reason for him to want to get through the door other than general curiosity, or would he have eventually just realized there was simply no other path forward? Would it have been possible for him to just never find the key and leave another way, having never encountered the caves? Maybe not since this is supposed to be a contained experience, but then it's not really giving a clear idea of how open-ended the actual game is going to be in that case. If this is just meant to be a technical proof of concept, then that's not a problem, but I don't really know if that's the full intent, which is why I feel like I'm not entirely sure how to respond.
If it is meant to represent a typical player starting experience, and we should expect all new players in an area to get funneled into the same dungeon and get the same floaty effect artifact leading to every newb floating around town like that, then I basically hate it. I'm hoping that it's not, however, so I won't harp on about it too much until we have more information, but I do want to give one last critique regarding the random items lying around that none of the NPCs seemed to care about. It was really odd that Cohh was running around picking up random fish and other things, but then for a quest he had to go and get a fish from the storeroom and now there suddenly needs to be a guard protecting THESE fish, so there was this weird disconnect where there were some things that were super protected and other, completely identical things, that no one cared that he was just stuffing his pockets full of. It doesn't seem like it was really thought out, and extra junk was just thrown in there for no real reason other than it would be generally neat to be able to loot crates and pick stuff up or something. I can think of no interesting in-world or gameplay reason for it to be this way. Being able to *steal* various items placed in the world? That's great! Having items that are explicitly stated to be there for the player or for common use is also just fine! But random stuff that doesn't seem to belong to anyone or exist for any sensible in-world reason? No thanks. This leads to exactly the kind of gameplay that we saw Cohh engaged in, where he was just grabbing anything not nailed down, with no real reason for doing so other than that he could. And that's not to criticize him, that's exctly what this kind of design encourages players to do, regardless of whether or not it makes sense from a character perspective. This is the first time we're really seeing this system (unless I've missed it), so again, maybe stuff was just randomly scattered around as a proof of concept, but as presented it can definitely use some refinement in the way it's currently being used in the level design.
mrsanders said: "What i did not like was the quest mechanics: where he had to bring that npc a fish and despite already having one he had to fetch another one just to trigger the next step of the quest. Early Everquest handled it better, you could simply give the npcs items you already have."
I do agree with this. This is all based on the way the quest requirements are designed. In this case the quest Cohh was given had two requirements:
1) Obtain Avendyr Trout from Store Room
2) Bring Trout to Mazrik
So with the requirements made in this way, if you already had the fish when you got the quest, you would still need to go loot another one in order to trigger completion of the first requirement.
Ideally the first requirement should not be there. The quest should simply be 'Bring Trout to Mazrik' and the quest directions could then explain that the Trout could be found in the Store Room. There is no reason that 'Obtaining' should ever be part of any quest requirement. If a quest requires you to bring something to the quest giver, 'Obtaining it' is implied and shouldn't be something that needs to be implicitly required as a step.
So without this as a Required step, if the player found the Store Room first and obtained a Trout, he could accept the quest and immediately complete the quest by handing over the Trout.
This would be more in line with VR's desire for players to be motivated to explore on their own rather than wait until you have a quest that tells you what to do before you do it. If they instead force you to only obtain items after you've picked up the quest, this would incentivise players to ignore anything they don't yet have a quest for.
mrsanders said:What i did not like was the quest mechanics: where he had to bring that npc a fish and despite already having one he had to fetch another one just to trigger the next step of the quest.
Early Everquest handled it better, you could simply give the npcs items you already have.
I also noticed that about the fish quest, and hope it will be fixed later.
As somebody else mentioned I also did not care for the rummaging around in random boxes and finding random crap. I would rather have a container or cabinet here and there that is "clickable" and have something that is a bit more valuable or useful. It is fun to explore but that is a pain if you have to smash open every box and barrel in the game so as not to miss something you need. You open three barrels and five boxes in some random room with armor in it and get a Rutabaga and a Trout, come on man that is so Eso. At least put that stuff in the Kitchen.
One thing that stuck with me was the under tuned for gaming writers they should be above the avrage player in skill this is there job lets not make playing one character in Pantheon a Job it should be something you can do with your freinds after a hard day at work. EQ and vangaurd where relaxing to play just about any group that got togeather could complete the encounters we dont need a gamed tunned for the 10% that have to be max level in full BiS. I want a game NOT a ESPORT Bar softball teams dont play the MLB.