Forums » Crafting and Gathering

Unofficial Ask Neph anything thread

    • 11 posts
    April 7, 2022 4:57 PM PDT

    From a metallurgical standpoint, while there was such a thing as open ore nodes for a lot of human history, the ones in the more accessible areas have all been depleted.  To me, it would make sense to confine a lot of the lower level nodes to 'mine' areas, while more wild/high level areas would have them distributed in a more traditional manner.  It doesn't make sense for there to be copper nodes close to the city gates - the expansion of the city would have necessitated removing and using those. (Of course, I'm not a huge fan of 'copper' being the first tier of metal worked with, either.  It makes sense in Civ, but less sense in an RPG)

     

    You could even incorporate this into a crafting faction system, too - access to the mines are granted to players who have earned enough Journeymen faction, for example.  Or, players who haven't gotten that faction could brave an abandoned mine, taken over by bandits or giant spiders, for instance.  The tradeoff would be facing danger while mining, in comparison to the relatively cushy use of the miner's guild property. 

     

    That being said, I have a few questions:  Are crafting materials intended to be just raw upgrades to each other, as in, starting with Bronze, moving to Iron, then Steel, or are a lot of materials going to be sidegrades?  For instance, Steel might be your standard crafting material that just produces an all around balanced item, but Iron might be more effective against Fey creatures, with Mythril being lighter/faster attack.  I'm happy to see alloys in the game! Will players need to get access to other crafting stations, for instance, like a cementation furnace to produce blister steel?  Perhaps that could be locked behind some sort of guild faction standing, too.  Also, are any crafting processes going to take a measure of time?  Farming comes to mind, of course, but things along the lines of, say, refining your iron in a bloomery could take time before you have a usable product, too.  Finally, what about crafting in the field?  I imagine a lot of cooking will involve producing field food and rations to take with you, but will players be able to, say, have a campfire and some degree of limited crafting there?  Maybe the ability to make a shared meal while sitting around the fire, with different stat bonuses than your homemade rations, or, perhaps, the ability to (with a nice animation) sharpen your weapons to maintain some of their durability.  Anything to break up the monotony of waiting for mobs to spawn if you're camping a particular area.

     


    This post was edited by Lunacea at April 7, 2022 5:01 PM PDT
    • 612 posts
    April 9, 2022 5:03 PM PDT

    Lunacea said:

    That being said, I have a few questions:  Are crafting materials intended to be just raw upgrades to each other, as in, starting with Bronze, moving to Iron, then Steel, or are a lot of materials going to be sidegrades?  For instance, Steel might be your standard crafting material that just produces an all around balanced item, but Iron might be more effective against Fey creatures, with Mythril being lighter/faster attack.  I'm happy to see alloys in the game!

    Obviously Nephele can give a much more accurate answer, but from what I can remember of what he has said in the past it will be a little of both.

    The crafting system works by letting you choose a Schematic (ie Mold or Pattern) and then you choose which Materials to use for that Schematic. Which Materials you use will change the stats that are found on that item once it's finished.

    The types of Metals could expand or limit what type of stats or what your total stat cap is for specific types. So just spitballing some ideas:

    Harder Metals may allow for higher AC on armors but will be Heavier.
    Harder Metals may allow for higher Str, Dex, Agi to be applied and yet be limited on how much Int, Wis, Cha that can be added.
    Softer Metals may allow for higher Int, Wis, Cha to be applied and yet be limited on how much Str, Dex, Agi that can be added.
    Some Metals may allow you to add more Magical Gems but be limited to smaller Gem types.
    Other Metals may allow for Larger Magical Gems but can't hold very many total Gems.
    Heavy Metals may allow for higher Damage on weapons but will be slower.
    Light metals may allow for Higher attack speeds but will not hit for as much Damage.

    You may also be able to combine various Metal types for your final product. For example a Sword may have a Steel Blade but with a Silver Edge. Or perhaps you want a Silver Blade with an Electrum Tip.

    Each part of the Sword also can have various combinations. The Hilt could have an Iron Core, but an Oak Wood grip. Or perhaps it has a Bronze Core with a Leather Grip with Gold Studs.

    This means that even at low level you can choose from a variety of different Metals within the low level Metals Tier, each with their own pro's and cons.

    As you advance, more superiour Metal types might become available to you. These higher Tier Metals may have increased stat caps, or perhaps allow for alternative stats to be added, such as Haste or Regen.

    This doesn't automatically mean you stop using the older Metals but instead may just open up other Combinations. Now you might be able to make a Steel Blade with a Titanium Edge with Platinum Hooks, and Gold Plated Glyphs. Each of these Metals add their own statistics. This is all using the same Sword Schematic you were using before.


    *** Edit: Just thought I would add this video link for you in case you havn't had a chance to watch it: Crafting & Gathering Introduction


    This post was edited by GoofyWarriorGuy at April 9, 2022 5:15 PM PDT
    • 1785 posts
    April 11, 2022 9:32 AM PDT

    Thanks Goofy!  It won't be quite as complex as what you outlined but your example is spot on in terms of the intent of the system :)

    • 11 posts
    April 11, 2022 4:45 PM PDT

    Thanks for explaining that part of my question :)

    • 4 posts
    April 28, 2022 7:03 AM PDT

    Thanks for the post, Goofy.  Very informative.

    • 2000 posts
    January 2, 2023 6:35 PM PST

    Assuming we get Bards (either at release or later), will Crafters be able to make any Bard instruments?

    Both woodworking and metalworking could be involved.

    • 141 posts
    January 3, 2023 3:17 AM PST

    Hello,

    I mentioned it in some other post but since this one seems to be the place to be...

    One thing that in my opinion would make Crafting meaningful and rewarding is if it was somewhat/substantially different from adventuring in terms of what you can do.

    One example I like is if you could craft specialized gear that you wouldn't naturally find in, say, a chest, like gauntlets with bonuses for climbing, swimming suits (I mean, who in Feerott's name would go out swimming in full plate ?), ropes, torches, food of course (except if you really want to steal from those orc pots), poisons, ... and all that comes with enhancing objects. 

    I personally like the idea of using crafts to prolong/diversify/add_utility to the life of dropped items. This can be used very early one, by for instance, using leather strips to add a grip to this rusty sword, and later on add this fabled gem to your sword. This would also be a way to alleviate the need to constantly change gear in order to feel some sense of accomplishment. Gear being somewhat rarer, you would want to get it repaired/enhanced until you get a hand on your next armor/sword/casting_rod.

     


    This post was edited by Grobobos at January 3, 2023 3:19 AM PST
    • 1785 posts
    January 3, 2023 8:13 AM PST

    Jothany said:

    Assuming we get Bards (either at release or later), will Crafters be able to make any Bard instruments?

    Both woodworking and metalworking could be involved.

    Assuming that bard instruments are a tool/weapon item, then I think it would be safe to assume that they might be able to be crafted just like other sorts of tools/weapons that players use :)

    However, this is all just hypothetical since while we all love bards, we don't have any sort of ETA to share on when they might appear in Terminus :)

    • 1785 posts
    January 3, 2023 8:16 AM PST

    Grobobos said:

    One thing that in my opinion would make Crafting meaningful and rewarding is if it was somewhat/substantially different from adventuring in terms of what you can do.

    Without going into details and spoiling the fun, I think you'll be pleased with the different types of things you'll be able to craft in Pantheon. I look forward to your feedback once we get into Alpha/Beta :)

    • 337 posts
    January 19, 2023 6:45 AM PST

    Hmmm... Steve Clover and Nephele have some upcoming crafting news that Joppa doesn't want to spoil?  Don't know why but I'm getting a strong EQ2/Vanguard-esque crafting vibe from this matchup.  But tell me this, Neph, has the overall design for materials # = end item changed from a couple years ago when you laid out the direction you wanted to go?  We've heard a little about possibly taking away some of the grind literally at the forge and making it revolve more around grinding the items to bring to the forge.  Is that still the case?

    • 1785 posts
    January 19, 2023 10:48 AM PST

    Benonai said:

    Hmmm... Steve Clover and Nephele have some upcoming crafting news that Joppa doesn't want to spoil?  Don't know why but I'm getting a strong EQ2/Vanguard-esque crafting vibe from this matchup.  But tell me this, Neph, has the overall design for materials # = end item changed from a couple years ago when you laid out the direction you wanted to go?  We've heard a little about possibly taking away some of the grind literally at the forge and making it revolve more around grinding the items to bring to the forge.  Is that still the case?

    High-level, we're still headed in the same direction that I outlined in the Dev Roundtables a couple of years ago. Obviously, a lot of that comes down to implementation, and the devil there is in the details. But the goals remain the same.

    I don't want to spoil the specific surprises (and there's a big one that I think you all will love), but what I can say right now is that Steve and I have been really focused these past couple of months on getting gathering to a state where we feel it is mechanically ready for Alpha. That doesn't mean finished with all the depth we eventually want to have, but it does mean that it's solid, it works, and the core of it is there and (hopefully) fun for players, even if it's not in its final form. A big amount of that is supporting work on the UI so that you as a player can know what's going on in the process and control/manage it appropriately. Once we get gathering to that Alpha-ready state, we'll be working next on crafting.

    You'll absolutely hear more about this as we progress through the year. We actually have a pretty major feature working now that I am very excited about and that I think you all will really love, but again I don't want to spoil that surprise just yet :)

    • 724 posts
    March 15, 2023 8:11 AM PDT

    I am excited to hear some of the progress made in the crafting and gathering sphere.  This upcoming (march2023) information will be a joy to hear about.

    Is there any area/zone in the game that you have particular enthusiasm for ?  Is it Wilds End and the surrounding areas?  Is there something wonderful and special about that area being superior to the other places? Is it because of the mushrooms? Do the mushrooms increase your ability to see pink elephants?  I eagerly await the update on pink elephant sightings.  

    • 2000 posts
    March 15, 2023 5:56 PM PDT

    StoneFish said:

    Is there any area/zone in the game that you have particular enthusiasm for ?  Is it Wilds End and the surrounding areas?  Is there something wonderful and special about that area being superior to the other places? Is it because of the mushrooms? Do the mushrooms increase your ability to see pink elephants?  I eagerly await the update on pink elephant sightings. 

    I really figured you were joking about falling down and hitting your head in that other thread. Now however......

    • 1785 posts
    March 17, 2023 8:21 AM PDT

    Stonefish is just going to have to roll up a halfling when the time comes and see the pink elephants for himself :)

    • 13 posts
    April 7, 2023 11:16 AM PDT

    Stonefish is just going to have to roll up a halfling when the time comes and see the pink elephants for himself :)

     

    ^^ thaaaat's exciting!

     

    Neph! I've got 4 in-depth questions (and one bonus) for ya!

     

    1. How will Quality crafting experiences vs Quantity of crafting experiences be balanced in the big picture?

    Some potential considerations on that question: Will the player be able to choose which type of crafting experience they prefer? How will player skill and/or preparation relate to each type of experience, and how strongly? How will these decisions and skills be incentivized?

    2. Will the keeper system be integrated with crafting and provide opportunities for crafters to become experience leaders (of other crafters and/or adventurers) in Pantheon? 

    3. Group crafting. Will this be a thing? Potential consideration: How will it relate to solo crafting, regarding rewards and game play loop? Will it be transactional ie you make this for me so i can make this other thing, or will group crafting be more like a crafting version of a group adventure experience, where expertise, role playing and collaboration matter? If so, is there a 'crafting quaternity', or will it be a different sort of group structure/experience?

    4. How will "horizontal" development in crafting look? Potential consideration: how might things balance between a maximally-realized-for-their-level crafter, compare to someone who raced through crafting levels? Will this show up in 'notoriety at their level'?

    Bonus: if ship building were the most fun thing ever for a vanguard crafter, and it (sounds like) it involved woodcrafting, how might an experience like this be realized for other professions?

    <3

    • 1785 posts
    April 9, 2023 5:14 PM PDT

    Libwick said:

    1. How will Quality crafting experiences vs Quantity of crafting experiences be balanced in the big picture?

    Some potential considerations on that question: Will the player be able to choose which type of crafting experience they prefer? How will player skill and/or preparation relate to each type of experience, and how strongly? How will these decisions and skills be incentivized?

    There are many different considerations here - for example, what are you crafting, what's your intent in crafting it, and what stage of the game are you at?

    Let's start with what you're crafting. If you're making weapons or armor, odds are, you're going to find yourself spending more time on individual items than you are going to be making many things. A lot of that will be in material selection - you'll be thinking about who you're making the item for (even if it's you) and how you want the item to come out as a result. On the flip side, if you're making consumables like food or potions, you might be making greater quantities. However, ingredient selection will still be important, so the expectation is that you'll probably spend some time hunting down the specific ingredients you want or working with other players to get them.

    Then there's intent. Are you making items to sell? Just for yourself and your friends/guild? Or are you potentially even just crafting to do some of the content that we'll have and seeing the impact of those efforts on the world? (which will be a valid way to play as well). Depending on your answer, you may find your focus shifting.

    Finally, the stage of the game is really important. Early on, crafting helps players get geared up at a basic level and gives them small boosts here and there to help them overcome challenges. In the mid-levels, crafting becomes about optimizing the potential of your equipment and giving you the toolkit to take on more dangerous and exotic locations. Finally, at high levels, crafting also becomes a way to create some really amazingly distinct and unique items, and complete some of the toughest challenges and content out there (which may or may not involve combat). So again, your focus will shift depending on what you're trying to accomplish.

    I've mentioned before that mass production is something that we don't really want players to do too much of, because when you get hundreds of players all grinding out hundreds of items for any reason, that can rapidly lead to economic problems with an oversupply of many items. So, once everything is in place (probably around beta) you're going to find a few differences between Pantheon's crafting and that of most games:

    1) We have a greater emphasis on choosing the right ingredients/materials and components to customize your result slightly, and you'll have different options available to you fairly early on that will only increase as you progress.

    2) You'll get some progression from creating items, but the emphasis will probably be on creating new and different items and not just grinding out the same things.

    3) Content will be a big deal for our crafting system, both in terms of progression and in terms of what you get out of it. That's not to say you'll have to do it, but you won't be forced into grinding.

    4) For items that you might truly need to create in bulk (for example, refined materials), you'll find options that make doing that easier via the specialization system and general progression.

     

    Libwick said:

    2. Will the keeper system be integrated with crafting and provide opportunities for crafters to become experience leaders (of other crafters and/or adventurers) in Pantheon? 

    The two systems won't be directly linked, as we don't want anyone to feel like they have to be a Keeper in order to be an effective crafter. However, Keepers will be able to do some things that might be very interesting or useful for crafters in general, just as they will for adventurers. Our goal with Keepers is really to make it something that has its own sphere of gameplay, but provides a lot of social value to other players through uncovering secrets and information.

    You'll have to wait until the time is right to hear more specifics on Keeper/Crafter interactions though :)  Sorry!

     

    Libwick said:

    3. Group crafting. Will this be a thing? Potential consideration: How will it relate to solo crafting, regarding rewards and game play loop? Will it be transactional ie you make this for me so i can make this other thing, or will group crafting be more like a crafting version of a group adventure experience, where expertise, role playing and collaboration matter? If so, is there a 'crafting quaternity', or will it be a different sort of group structure/experience?

    There will be projects that multiple crafters can participate in together to construct larger/more complicated things. Shipbuilding is a good example of project crafting (that involves contributions from multiple different crafters), but we're planning for a variety of different kinds of projects to be available. Some projects will be player-initiated, while others may be related to content or events out in the world.

    Projects will work a little differently from normal crafting, although normal crafting will likely be a part of projects to help create the materials that are used in them. In general, I want projects to be things that players can contribute to asynchronously over time in some cases, but I also have plans for some types of projects that may have players working directly together. To what degree that occurs will really depend on the nature of the project in question :)

    Don't expect to see project crafting before beta. I'm excited to get to it, but we have a lot of more fundamental systems we still need to tackle first.

     

    Libwick said:

    4. How will "horizontal" development in crafting look? Potential consideration: how might things balance between a maximally-realized-for-their-level crafter, compare to someone who raced through crafting levels? Will this show up in 'notoriety at their level'?

    Here's a quick list of some things that aren't just vertical progression:

    - Crafting equipment and tools, including things that may not be easily purchased even if you have the money.

    - Faction standings that allow you access to schematics and materials.

    - Specialization choices that grant you bonuses or additional techniques that might be very useful for certain activities.

    - Content in the world that allows you to procure powerful techniques to use while crafting.

     

    Libwick said:

    Bonus: if ship building were the most fun thing ever for a vanguard crafter, and it (sounds like) it involved woodcrafting, how might an experience like this be realized for other professions?

    <3

    See my answer about project crafting above. As for how those spread among professions, building a ship likely would require outfitters and blacksmiths in addition to woodworkers. Now think about all the different kinds of projects that could potentially happen, either initiated by players or via content. For example, what if there was a project you could do to furnish a dining hall and prepare a feast for other players? How might that involve different kinds of crafters working together?


    This post was edited by Nephele at April 9, 2023 5:15 PM PDT
    • 3852 posts
    April 9, 2023 5:53 PM PDT

    Nephele - I was already looking forward to Pantheon crafting - after reading all these details I am *really* looking forward to it.

    An expansion or two in - Gods willing - building houses may join building ships. Vangaurd had that but there is a lot of room for improvement over Vanguard housing.

    • 13 posts
    April 16, 2023 4:27 PM PDT

    Omg. Reading this I was modulating from hooting/hollering to peeps/eeks by myself, my neighbors are probably like wtf is going on over there?? If only they knew! I'm so giddy for this baby of yours Nephele! #pantheonpatient <3