streeg said:Progeny. An interesting concept but I don't really see a lot of interest from the community so it seems like it would be a waste of dev time.
I find it odd that you say you don't see a lot of interest. There have been many multiple threads over the years filled with mostly speculation.
VR has made it very clear that any conversation about it without more concrete info is unwanted. Kils has closed down at least a half dozen progeny threads that get to long and filled with what is likely misinformation and misunderstanding.
This ^ is why I think you don't see more conversation about it.
What little we know has been discussed to death. Though CP has hinted about progeny a few times in the last year so maybe there is something being planned? Hard to say.
I know there are people who want to see progeny info more than anything else. If you aren't into progeny VR has made it clear that, like the perception system, it will be completely optional...;P It's really only designed for those who run out of content anyway.
I really can't say.
I think this is kind of a back-handed question, kind of like, "have you stopped cheating at cards?".. Yes, I mean No!, I mean Yes! but.....yes I've stopped cheating at cards and no because I've never cheated at cards!
It would really depend on how a feature is defined, and the biggest feature that comes to mind are the doozy's that have been well discussed enough to cross the developers and coders eyes. (in the words of "if I were a rich man" from Fiddler on the roof "posing questions that would cross a rabbi's eyes!") like death and selling so I wont mention them here; friends, romans and countrymen.
Tbh there is not enough I have seen to be able to answer. I imagine there are many PA testers that have already provided fodder for just this sort of thing and have provided conundrums for the like of Zoeii and Jason that I am not aware of due to the NDA.
What I do know, I recall from history and the criticism that was applied to one game over another and how a newer game was said to have fixed all the problems from an older, 21 year old game. these "problems" or features only discovered by players, playing after some years and then becoming a vocal minority and complaining, with idle threats like "me and my X number of subscribers will leave if you dont make class Y like this or change this mechanic to that". Not to say that some were legitimate, but I think an earnest effort is being made to sift out those issues in pre alhpa so that they dont snowball when the game is live. But I dont know for sure.
2 cents about progeny: it is an opportunity to give the budget conscious that may not be able to afford alts, to be able to play alts on one account, through progeny.
haha yeah, that agro sound and the last representation of health bars and status effects are my least fav things
I think about 6 months ago a lot of people might have been saying climbing, but now we see how VR are really using the system i dont think it would be on anyones radar any more as a bad feature. Maybe more of our gripes dissapear as the reasons for these systems starts to be further defined
I am going to go with:
- Slot based inventory systems.
Mass/Volume inventory systems are much more flexible on the UI and viability of a crafting system with many unique or semi unique optional ingredients. Mass/volume systems can be sortable lists and can have just as much customization if not more than prime inventory slots to be filled with bags.
(Also could do away with any form of player controlled long distance teleportation magic. Makes the world much smaller)
I don't think there's anything that VR is doing that is 'bad', though there are a few I will assess in testing, like LAS, for how it feels.
VR already acknowledge that those kind of things are open to tweaks and changes.
*shrug* I think the concept of wanting to 'remove' features is a bit odd and pointlessly negative.
If there is anything I suppose I could do without it's PvP, but even that, since VR have promised it won't effect PvE and PvE is still the overwhelming focus, there's no harm in it really.
Progeny is about the only reason im still pretty hyped about Pantheon. If it gets removed thats a biiiig letdown unless they add alternate advancement, but i hope it will be added in some way or form anyway later.
Im usualy getting bored if my character cant progress anymore. Progression to me means making a character stronger without better gear.
I kinda would like to play Pantheon aloooong time but if thoose features are left out it prolly will be more like 2 months or unless max lvl however long that is.
MedawkyVR said:Thanks
You and Kils are better off not responding to that type of criticism. I think it's fair to say CS has had some hiccups, I had a very frustrating experience I'm still not thrilled about, but at least you guys worked with me a little bit to make it tolerable, assuming you followed through. Not sure what Vandraad has dealt with, but even if you do a great job, there will always be some unhappy customers that want heads on pikes. Just do your best and treat people fairly. And, unless the criticism is constructive, completely ignore it.
We haven't even gotten to play the game, so I don't think it is fair to speculate on what would be good to be removed at this point. Except maybe for PA testers, at which point it shouldn't be about "removing" features, though, and more about providing feedback so that the features can be tweaked.
There have been plenty of features in an up-coming game that I thought I would hate, which I ended up loving after actually trying. And vice-versa. We don't really know how everything is going to work together to materialize the Pantheon vision yet. Perhaps LAS will work really well for group dynamics, the perception system will make the lore side of questing much more fun, and unique combat resources will provide class identity without being a burden on players. Maybe they will need tweaking. But removal... this early? No.
This question just bates the same crowd of naysayers in here that always show up shouting "Not hardcore enough!" or "Not EQ enough!" or "Too much like WoW!" anytime the devs release new information about the game. And I have already seen all regulars show up and do just that.
snocap said:We haven't even gotten to play the game, so I don't think it is fair to speculate on what would be good to be removed at this point. Except maybe for PA testers, at which point it shouldn't be about "removing" features, though, and more about providing feedback so that the features can be tweaked.
There have been plenty of features in an up-coming game that I thought I would hate, which I ended up loving after actually trying. And vice-versa. We don't really know how everything is going to work together to materialize the Pantheon vision yet. Perhaps LAS will work really well for group dynamics, the perception system will make the lore side of questing much more fun, and unique combat resources will provide class identity without being a burden on players. Maybe they will need tweaking. But removal... this early? No.
This question just bates the same crowd of naysayers in here that always show up shouting "Not hardcore enough!" or "Not EQ enough!" or "Too much like WoW!" anytime the devs release new information about the game. And I have already seen all regulars show up and do just that.
Honestly, I figure now is the only time to naysay because it's the only time there's a tiny(yes, I know it is very tiny) chance, while money/time is crunched, that VR might decide to not include something.
I just don't see us in beta and VR suddenly removing their nearly completed perception system even if we complain about it. Just how much time, effort, and love will they have sunk into it by then?
How much time will VR have to replace any removed system with something more fitting, that late in development?
DISCLAIMER: I don't personally mind the perception system despite it's remarkable similarities to exclamation points floating over heads. I was only using it as an example. Please let me quest between keeper hubs happily.
Jobeson said: @Trasak I too am a big fan of filling up the bag/box rather than slot based inventory when it comes to RP and just making sense, but if they did that then I would be begging for wagons and the like for transportation. I am happy enough with magic bags for the sake of having fewer things to create. An inventory system for a game like Eve will always be my ideal. Logistics as part of the game world is the only game is what made the pvp work. They did so many things right with that game.
I never really got into Eve but I have heard good things, I'm not a huge pvp guy. The Tradeskill/Non-Combat crowd is already asking for wagons and pack mules as a way to make harvesting more meaningful and possible opening up an entire shipping/trading play style similar to resource haulers in Elite Dangerous. The idea being that rock, clay and timber are big and heavy. Hides and textile harvests are bulky and time consuming to collect. By adding a moving inventory system around collecting large and or heavy resources you can make bulk raw materials more available on need without just flooding the market like very fast nodes would.
@Everyone wanting to remove Acclimation, Perception and Progeny
Do you really just want a class based game where you go out and kill stuff as the only way to gain Exp to raise your class level then sit at cap with nothing to do? Those systems are very important to the lifecycle of the game and having depth. If anything I think those three systems are what will make Pantheon far superior to EQ or WoW. I would say that the Perception system we have seen hints of is not going far enough. Treat it as a combination of leveling your sensory perceptions (sight, sound, touch, smell and taste) and have a whole library of lore knowledge. When you come across something it checks against your senses and your lores to see if you know the details. From there you can get a great deal of exploration and investigation to find and solve "quests".
I am not saying these are planned, I just want them removed before they ever are.
Flight - unless there is real danger and exploration in the air.
Too many porting points and short cuts
Making skills redundant - (e.g. aquiring via progression or quests, a skill/buff/advantage only to have it made available to every character on a shop (pay to win) a year later.
Making epics obsolete.
Trasak said:@Everyone wanting to remove Acclimation, Perception and Progeny
Do you really just want a class based game where you go out and kill stuff as the only way to gain Exp to raise your class level then sit at cap with nothing to do? Those systems are very important to the lifecycle of the game and having depth. If anything I think those three systems are what will make Pantheon far superior to EQ or WoW. I would say that the Perception system we have seen hints of is not going far enough. Treat it as a combination of leveling your sensory perceptions (sight, sound, touch, smell and taste) and have a whole library of lore knowledge. When you come across something it checks against your senses and your lores to see if you know the details. From there you can get a great deal of exploration and investigation to find and solve "quests".
There are people here that legitimately just want a carbon copy of EverQuest with modern graphics.
We can only hope those people lose interest and peter out during Alpha/Beta.
Just want to come in and show support to the perception system after noticing some opinions to suggest removing it! For myself and I believe a large number of gamers without a story it just is not a RPG. I am someone who always reads the quest text and I enjoy both local stories as well as the famous world/epic quests. Without some form of questing system I personally would not play the game.
eunichron said:There are people here that legitimately just want a carbon copy of EverQuest with modern graphics.
While I have little doubt that there are probably some here that would like Pantheon to be a carbon copy of Everquest, I think I could come up with just as many things that I want removed/changed/added from/to Everquest that would likely draw contempt from those people.
Responding to this thread in the way that it was framed was not my preferred way of approaching this sort of topic, as I would prefer to add, change and remove certain things rather than just doing it in a cut and run fashion, but if I were to stay true to the constraints of this thread while at the same time look at Pantheon's development strictly from a prioritization of resources standpoint, then I think there are certain things on my list that would allow them to focus their limited resources on the types of features they are creating that are likely to attract the largest number of people.
That's not to say there aren’t other things on my list that don't seem to fit that category, but those by and large are driven by aesthetic preferences.
Adrenicus said:Just want to come in and show support to the perception system after noticing some opinions to suggest removing it! For myself and I believe a large number of gamers without a story it just is not a RPG. I am someone who always reads the quest text and I enjoy both local stories as well as the famous world/epic quests. Without some form of questing system I personally would not play the game.
Do you understand that there is a questing system that is completely separate from the perception system? All perception is there for is added lore. Not questing. We have been told that participating in the perception system will be completely optional.
The examples you give makes me wonder? From what we have been told both standard "quests" and "epic quests" would not require participation in the perception system.
Acclimation
* You need someone to craft some form of "enchantment" for EACH item slot. I expect (could be wrong) that it will take a lot of time/money to gather the ingredients.
* When you switch from one set (say frost to poison), you'll need to replace each "enchantment", forever losing the frost enchantments.
* Get new gear ? Going to need to "enchant" that too.
Sounds like a kick in the nuts to me.
I'm confused OP. Did you make a thread for people to complain about what they don't like about a game they havent played or about other games? If the former I'm not sure why Kilsin has allowed it to go on so long. In before the thread gets locked from needless and baseless negativity.
Nuggie said:I'm confused OP. Did you make a thread for people to complain about what they don't like about a game they havent played or about other games? If the former I'm not sure why Kilsin has allowed it to go on so long. In before the thread gets locked from needless and baseless negativity.
Arguments against things you like are not automatically needless/baseless complaints.
Customers stating what they don't want in a product is far from needless.
I don't think imagination is always baseless. If I offer you a mixture of 1 part oranges and 3 parts gasoline do you need to try it before you can tell if it is tasty or not? How is it that you feel safe assuming that I can't look at various Pantheon systems and guess, based on circumstances like what Pantheon aims to be, what is realistic in a game creation sense, what we've seen of different systems so far, and who the VR team are, what those systems turn out like?
Your comment is the most negative one here.