As long as you make sure that my toggle which turns off other player's cosmetic items also turns off the cosmetic pets, I'm fine with it (though I'll probably never engage in that content except incidentally, when following a quest for other rewards).
As for those who say "it's a waste of resources": If a significant number of players want to spend time collecting cosmetic items in whichever way, then it's just as valuable a resource for VR as any combat or crafting content. For the simple reason that it brings paying customers while being content that the rest of us can easily turn off and never have to encounter or even think about.
Fascinating that you start this Post after i write this :-)
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/11932/3-questions-and-1-idea
Have Fun
MfG Viennacowboy
Sarim said:That said, I wouldn't want the Pantheon devs to invest any development time into such fluff, to the detriment of more vital systems.
I see this a lot and it is a big misunderstanding amongst many of the community and wider gaming community in general, cosmetics are purely art-related with minimal input from the devs that build the core game systems. Cosmetics are quick and easy side projects usually done during downtime or while waiting for other departments to add their work to bigger projects.
It is not "wasting" time or resources, many devs enjoy having free creative control over fun cosmetic items such as pets, clothing, auras etc. whether or not they make it into the overall game is another story but there is no harm or wasted effort in creating them.
This is a general message to everyone, not solely directed at you either mate, I just see this a lot and wanted to clear it up.
Kilsin said:Sarim said:
... a big misunderstanding amongst many of the community and wider gaming community in general, cosmetics are purely art-related with minimal input from the devs that build the core game systems. Cosmetics are quick and easy side projects usually done during downtime or while waiting for other departments to add their work to bigger projects.
It is not "wasting" time or resources, many devs enjoy having free creative control over fun cosmetic items such as pets, clothing, auras etc. whether or not they make it into the overall game is another story but there is no harm or wasted effort in creating them.
O_o Orly?
That changes my POV a bit, if it makes the devs happy...and if we ARE in their world...
I could see a compromise being pets only allowed to be seen cavorting or whatever in cities and instead of world events, City/ town events where something comes in and could destroy all the pets unless they are cared for or pocketed, otherwise players have to go out and get new pets. Players able to keep "original" or first generation pets the longest (like first edition comics or cards) would be awe inspiriing. Plus it would allow the creative teams to showcase all their private beastiary over time.
Maybe that could be the benefit and the danger of having a pet?. The pet coming out on its own volition would be the queue that the area you are in is relatively safe like a campsite, however that gypsy camptsite may also be the home of a tomcat that will hunt and kill your pet.
Kilsin said:Sarim said:That said, I wouldn't want the Pantheon devs to invest any development time into such fluff, to the detriment of more vital systems.
I see this a lot and it is a big misunderstanding amongst many of the community and wider gaming community in general, cosmetics are purely art-related with minimal input from the devs that build the core game systems. Cosmetics are quick and easy side projects usually done during downtime or while waiting for other departments to add their work to bigger projects.
It is not "wasting" time or resources, many devs enjoy having free creative control over fun cosmetic items such as pets, clothing, auras etc. whether or not they make it into the overall game is another story but there is no harm or wasted effort in creating them.
This is a general message to everyone, not solely directed at you either mate, I just see this a lot and wanted to clear it up.
Oh oh... I'm going to challenge Kilsin... Be brave, Dispo... Here goes...
I think when people say "wasted effort" (and, yes, I hear that a lot in the community when talking about cosmetics and the like) they aren't just talking about the time to create it.
Whilst I don't doubt that the arty folks could, and do, produce cosmetics (and all sorts of stuff/fluff) in their spare time and with minimal input from other devs, it is surely something that undergoes the same review, checks and fixes as everything else if it gets into the game? I would hope so! And, if so, then it will inevitably take time away from checking/testing/reporting/fixing other stuff.
It's interesting you imply things that might make it into the game as cosmetics could be stuff where devs were having fun expressing their creative freedom, but it didn't make it into the overall game. Surely, there's a good reason that stuff didn't make it into the game? I would think that reason doesn't disappear just because you could throw that thing in game as a 'cosmetic'.
I think that is actually a large reason why a lot of people don't like cosmetics. They are, by their nature, things that didn't make it into the 'real' game. They are the outlandish, the over-the-top, the frivolous, the inappropriate, the superfluous, etc. It's that stuff that a lot of folks don't like to see in an atmospheric, immersive world, even in towns or taverns.
And, to be honest, even if they were somehow utterly 'for free', they would still be unwanted by a lot of folks. They most often detract from the game, not add to it.
It's 'wasted effort', even if it's for free, because we don't just "not *want* it", we actively "*don't* want it".
And, even if kept to private instances, or if toggle-able, it is *still* all stuff that will need checking/testing/reporting/fixing...
disposalist said:Kilsin said:Sarim said:That said, I wouldn't want the Pantheon devs to invest any development time into such fluff, to the detriment of more vital systems.
I see this a lot and it is a big misunderstanding amongst many of the community and wider gaming community in general, cosmetics are purely art-related with minimal input from the devs that build the core game systems. Cosmetics are quick and easy side projects usually done during downtime or while waiting for other departments to add their work to bigger projects.
It is not "wasting" time or resources, many devs enjoy having free creative control over fun cosmetic items such as pets, clothing, auras etc. whether or not they make it into the overall game is another story but there is no harm or wasted effort in creating them.
This is a general message to everyone, not solely directed at you either mate, I just see this a lot and wanted to clear it up.Oh oh... I'm going to challenge Kilsin... Be brave, Dispo... Here goes...
I think when people say "wasted effort" (and, yes, I hear that a lot in the community when talking about cosmetics and the like) they aren't just talking about the time to create it.
Whilst I don't doubt that the arty folks could, and do, produce cosmetics (and all sorts of stuff/fluff) in their spare time and with minimal input from other devs, it is surely something that undergoes the same review, checks and fixes as everything else if it gets into the game? I would hope so! And, if so, then it will inevitably take time away from checking/testing/reporting/fixing other stuff.
It's interesting you imply things that might make it into the game as cosmetics could be stuff where devs were having fun expressing their creative freedom, but it didn't make it into the overall game. Surely, there's a good reason that stuff didn't make it into the game? I would think that reason doesn't disappear just because you could throw that thing in game as a 'cosmetic'.
I think that is actually a large reason why a lot of people don't like cosmetics. They are, by their nature, things that didn't make it into the 'real' game. They are the outlandish, the over-the-top, the frivolous, the inappropriate, the superfluous, etc. It's that stuff that a lot of folks don't like to see in an atmospheric, immersive world, even in towns or taverns.
And, to be honest, even if they were somehow utterly 'for free', they would still be unwanted by a lot of folks. They most often detract from the game, not add to it.
It's 'wasted effort', even if it's for free, because we don't just "not *want* it", we actively "*don't* want it".
And, even if kept to private instances, or if toggle-able, it is *still* all stuff that will need checking/testing/reporting/fixing...
I'm going to challange this a bit as well, but to add to disposalists reasoning. Wasent the reason for normalizing all the Charractor models, reducing the spikes off the Skar, Loosing the fins off the Dark Myr and generally making them all the same model with differant skin's due to the ART team not having enough time?
Now we have then sitting arround with nothing to do so there making annimated puff balls and the like?
News flash, devs are humans too. Also tonight, no one does any non work related tasks at work, ever.
Hokanu said:News flash, devs are humans too. Also tonight, no one does any non work related tasks at work, ever.
I didn't mean to imply that art devs are doing 'fluff' rubbish when they could/should be 'working'.
They will, no doubt, in the course of their work, end up doing things that don't end up in the game. Those aren't 'wasted' effort, they were practice runs and demos and alternatives etc. Some of what is not used might well have an application later...
BUT just because someone designed a panther that ended up looking too much like a house cat so didn't get used, that doesn't mean you throw it in as a cosmetic house cat later for fun.
Equally just because someone designed a fantastic umbrella while practicing or having fun doesn't mean it should get thrown in as a cosmetic sun parasol for characters to parade around with.
Nay. A source of significant raid lag in other games I've played. If you have them...let them be optionally hidden by the observer, not the owner.
But...yay to cosmetic options for functional extensions of the player, e.g. mounts, summoned functional pets.
And...yay to cosmetic options for pets in personal instances, e.g. personal estate, guild estate
Yay, but conditionally. I thought Classic WoW handled this fine, so something along those lines. A modern game like Elder Scrolls Online handles this very badly due to the cosmetic overload in an attempt to make money, especially in terms of pets.
Absolutely agree with the people that say "Yay" but only in instanced housing. Instanced housing is the ideal place to allow pets, outfits, and all the other fluff that people will pay extra for.
Leibnitz said:Nay. A source of significant raid lag in other games I've played. If you have them...let them be optionally hidden by the observer, not the owner.
But...yay to cosmetic options for functional extensions of the player, e.g. mounts, summoned functional pets.
And...yay to cosmetic options for pets in personal instances, e.g. personal estate, guild estate
There wouldn't be raid lag if there was an option to turn cosmetic features (on off) on your end would there?
like.... see cosmetic pets On Off
As big a "Nay" from me as I can assert. Sure, as a completionist, if there are pets in the game I will spend stupid amounts of time and resources gathering all of them. But they're utterly useless, smell like an anime MMOs and just clutter up immersion and the environment.
If the artsy folks need something to do, draw more unique armor pieces and weapons. They don't have to be over the top like in WoW (please don't do that). There is a ton of variety in real-world armor and weapons to draw inspiration from and it would be great to have that in-game, too.
There are other things they could do, too, like creating lots of environmental bits and bobs to make the world seem older and more lived-in. How about damaged plants and trees left as scars after some historical battle? Or random piles of rocks, crumbling rock walls, animal trails, animal carcasses, fossils half-buried in cliffsides, and on and on. The possibilities are limitless. And all more useful than adding pokemon to the game.
My two cents...
1. I love this type of content and fact of the matter this is a mini game for people who love this stuff. My wife goes nuts for this and kept her playing games with me long after she didnt want to play just to finish her pet collection.
2. I think pets should be both earned and sold in a cash shop. If someone want to drop $10 on a cosmetic pet, why should we as fans stop them. More money this game makes, the more we get new content.
3. Some pets should be earned by all sorts of content, harder the content, the cooler the pet.
4. I would like to see cosmetic pets not just be cosmetic. For earned cosmetic pets, I would love to see a pet tree line. No matter the pet, what you have unlocked would apply to all pets. Passives for pets could have things like different emotes, gestures, dances, and other social fluffy stuff. Each could be unlocked by collecting new pets.
5. All pets should be tied into lore and part of the story. Even if its small. Like helping the homeless in a city could earn you a pet rat. Killing all the bosses in a dungeon could earn you a pet that comes from that dungeon. Be it a mob or cosmetic mobs like a sheep or dog that NPCs keep as pets in that area.
I don't really care. I myself normally don't worry about them, but I see other like them and have them following them around.
They usually look fine in game, as long as they don't get in the way when targeting mobs etc. Maybe if they are outside in the world they dissapear when combat it initiated, or even make it possible to disable them in the client, then for people who don't want to see them they can just turn them off and let people who like seeing them have them on.
Could also be a source of some revenue since they don't affect game play. (I don't mind a game store as long as it doesn't sell xp potions, health potions, equipment or boots etc which affects the game play mechanics of adventuring)