Personal play? not really necessary.
Raid play? absolutely useable by leadership.
It is hard to design raids for all players to be engaged, in a raid one player cannot win the raid.
It is easy in current raid design for one player to wipe the raid, in a raid some players may not fully participate and you can tell- the event takes a bit longer and the next attempt things go smoothly.
Parsing helps identify where the gaps are- in a raid situation. I have also seen parsing improve player game play- no seriously. A "wow I never knew I could do that" kind of stuff which is also cool and gives a next level feeling to game play.
Personally I dont like using them but I do like hearing soandso did 2X dps and I did 1X dps and I know soandso and I have the same gear- I am going to be curious how soandso did twice as much dps as I did.
Coincidentally, I have been on the otherside, too. Soandso and I are in a group and things go south- but I am familiar with not this exact scenario but similar and I keep my wits and start to use my tricks. He freaks and dies, I live and buy time- group recovers albeit tattered for wear. My DPS was low, but my tactics in that situation were apropos.
Let's stick to team work not epeening. "Yes, your the rogue with the epic ... yes we're all shocked that you were able to 'steal' agro away from the tank. You're dead now, congrats, the cleric will Res you in 5 minutes." Actually, the impaired might need a DPS meter afterwall. ;-)
Yes, but individual only, that way you know your dps, but not anyone elses, so you can see how well your doing, but can't use it to tell someone else if they are playing badly or not, that way the people who dont want it won't be affected by it and the one that that do want it they can use as a tool to see what works and what doesnt.
Sam will be laying on the ground dead from aoe 2 minutes 3 seconds into the fight aka 123 seconds. He will use the combat log in game to add up his damage, and depending on how long the fight goes on while he's laying there he may add up everyone's damage until the point he died, divide by 123 and post the dps with or without the meter. So as I said : inevitable, enough said, no further posts necessary. Might as well give the meter to make it easier for Sam.
TLogan said:Sam will be laying on the ground dead from aoe 2 minutes 3 seconds into the fight aka 123 seconds. He will use the combat log in game to add up his damage, and depending on how long the fight goes on while he's laying there he may add up everyone's damage until the point he died, divide by 123 and post the dps with or without the meter. So as I said : inevitable, enough said, no further posts necessary. Might as well give the meter to make it easier for Sam.
Sam's toon took 1500 steps between his respawn point and the location of his corpse. Sam also knew that it took ten minutes (600 seconds) for the journey. Sam divided his number of steps by the time it took him to locate his corpse and realised he takes 2.5 steps per second.
Sam will always count his steps, so give Sam a step counter, it's easier for him.
Also, now that we have the power of step counter, we can check the duration of everyone's journey from one point to another whilst we're waiting for them to ascertain whether they stopped for a few minutes along the way.. They better be serious about joining your group, eh? Yeah, check those steps, make sure they didn't dilly dally along the way! And if they did, you now have 'hard evidence' to kick them from the group!
Step counter! Make sure they're running, all day, every day! Get yours today from w w w . regimental_gameplay.abcdefg
Neutral
People will find ways to measure it with or without meters, and I have obviously seen the detriment of them, but the bigger issue is not the meters, but how content has been dumbed down into DPS burns vs. strategic combat including crowd control techniques etc. where DPS may not be king.
Iksar said:Misused
This...
I've seen DPS meters be useful in situations but I've mostly seen it take over certain games. You don't see anyone in WoW playing WITHOUT a dps meter attached to their UI somewhere. And other games also have mods or addons.
Why do they do this? Because there is a DPS burn phase and an "Enrage Timer" within these raids. DPS is everything. This itself is restricting but the DPS meter is very helpful in this sense. You can find out who's slacking in their role, and give them pointers on how to improve.
-OR-
It can be used to talk down to others and call them trash in a video game. It's a way to make people feel insignficant or not good enough to be part of something simply because they haven't spent as much time figuring out and mastering their class to the fullest extent.
People have been kicked from guilds and raids for not doing enough DPS. And then people also think that just because they can quickly put out a ton of DPS this means they are allowed to die and then crap on people's parades for not doing more DPS while said person was dead.
DPS isn't everything in a game. Coordination and teamwork is. However, with that being said, DPS is still very important. You can't have a group of newbies who still don't know how their class operates head into end game content and just win. Your tank needs to know how to tank, your healers need to know their role, and DPS need to put out decent DPS so you're not in one encounter for 2 hours.
Someone else mentioned a good word; Inevitable. It will probably happen anyways. Just make it so there are no enrage timers and no DPS "burn phases" that = death if not met. If you can do this, then DPS won't matter AS much. People will still have that thought process when coming into Pantheon. And we can let them, because it doesn't matter near as much as they think it does. Instead, a DPS meter can be used as a tool to measure one's input of DPS and compare skill trees/abilities used with other classes/the same class to figure out what they offer. Like: "These" abilities for this class offer the most DPS but 0 utility to help your team; a glass cannon. While "this" one offers still a large amount of DPS with HOTS but also provides utility in case of these situations where "this" is needed to help your raid.
Shadowbound said:TLogan said:Sam will be laying on the ground dead from aoe 2 minutes 3 seconds into the fight aka 123 seconds. He will use the combat log in game to add up his damage, and depending on how long the fight goes on while he's laying there he may add up everyone's damage until the point he died, divide by 123 and post the dps with or without the meter. So as I said : inevitable, enough said, no further posts necessary. Might as well give the meter to make it easier for Sam.
Sam's toon took 1500 steps between his respawn point and the location of his corpse. Sam also knew that it took ten minutes (600 seconds) for the journey. Sam divided his number of steps by the time it took him to locate his corpse and realised he takes 2.5 steps per second.
Sam will always count his steps, so give Sam a step counter, it's easier for him.
Also, now that we have the power of step counter, we can check the duration of everyone's journey from one point to another whilst we're waiting for them to ascertain whether they stopped for a few minutes along the way.. They better be serious about joining your group, eh? Yeah, check those steps, make sure they didn't dilly dally along the way! And if they did, you now have 'hard evidence' to kick them from the group!
Step counter! Make sure they're running, all day, every day! Get yours today from w w w . regimental_gameplay.abcdefg
Why did this make me LMAO? I guess because everyone at my work feels the need to count their steps and share with everyone that nurses do in fact do more than just play cards. They also have perfected the art of discreetly tricking the counter that they're taking steps by shaking their leg under the table while playing cards. Great post, enjoyed it.
I fear having dps meters will create damage meta's which im extremely not on board with. Meaning some class will be highest possible dps, and others will whine that their class is the lowest dps and making the devs patch in different tweaks to the certain classes. In one word though =P
Valorous1 said:I fear having dps meters will create damage meta's which im extremely not on board with. Meaning some class will be highest possible dps, and others will whine that their class is the lowest dps and making the devs patch in different tweaks to the certain classes. In one word though =P
That is very well said. I couldn’t agree more. Let the classes be very different with skills in different areas. Let players get creative with group play and solo play. Classes aren’t supposed to be equal. They aren’t supposed to be of equal value in same scenarios etc.
Here is the enchanter; learn it, get creative with it. But do not whine for universal changes of the class. We have already seen such whining ruin what led up to be “mainstream.”
Raidan said:Neutral
People will find ways to measure it with or without meters, and I have obviously seen the detriment of them, but the bigger issue is not the meters, but how content has been dumbed down into DPS burns vs. strategic combat including crowd control techniques etc. where DPS may not be king.
This, so much this. If successs at the fight is just about not standing in bad while applying maximum damage then the meters will primarily determine who gets to play with a number of people losing at the class creation screen unless VR manages something that no MMO ever has achieved-perfectly balanced in all respects while also different classes (that whole shortest path between two points thing is very real). The players WILL figure out if class or classes have a real advantage in any area and the meta will be determined...
Toxic.
1. Simming and DPS meters make rise of cookie cutter "builds" or skill setups.
2. People use it to exclude people NOT following the cookie cutter because their DPS is lower
The community should be the DPS meter. If Player X is notorious for low damage, bad healing, not keeping aggro, etc. that will become quickly known to the server community and hopefully they're helped (or worst case, just not invited).
I'd prefer that more natural approach as opposed to DPS meters.
