I thoroughly enjoyed the old-school Sullon Zek deity team-based PVP server on Everquest. Strategy, geography, races, classes, factions, and deities all mattered. Where communication and guild alliances on your team were critical at times. So many things in a world that could make a big difference. And the zone control maps, and daily guild and player rankings where the 3 deity-based teams competed (evil, neutral, and good). I was thrilled to learn that Joppa also played on Sullon Zek.
#communitymatters #makenightmatteragain
I'm PvE all the way. Apart from the excessive competition and toxicity that can sometimes (not always, but sometimes) rear its head in a PvP environment, I also just prefer the whole experience of PvE. I play mmos for the magic of the game world much more than for the thrill of combat, and I can take in that magic much better in a PvE setting.
Kilsin said:Community Debate - PvE vs PvP, which play-style do you like best and why? #MMORPG #communitymatters
PvE. It is more interesting, more enjoyable and gives me a greater sense of satisfaction.
While I've enjoyed PvP in other games, most notably EVE Online, one thing stuck out most to me. The average player only likes to fight when they know they are going to win. Why fight even odds when, if you brought a few more people, it could vastly increase your odds of winning? Nobody wants to go into a fight knowing they will, or very well might, lose. So fights, especially in EVE Online, were quite usually one-sided. I even saw this back in the EQ days on Rallos Zek and in Ultima Online. When I was in DAoC, Midgard would go out and capture a bunch of Albion keeps, nearly none which were defended by players. After most of our people would log for the night, Albion would come in and retake the keeps with few Midgard defending...then go take our keeps the same way. Rinse and repeat.
In the end, PvP become boring. Fights were either one-sided victories that were boring or huge losses that were frustrating.
I've never played PvP, I've only played PvE style. My thinking is the world is hard enough, why should I decide who is good or evil an kill them.
With Karma being so popular on places like reddit, surely the zeitgeist is to allow "karma" to decide and let the evil befall their own fate. Shadenfrued would want me to watch them internally suffer, but woudnt that be the same as judging what is good and evil? as above?
The game world is hard enough, I need help. To those socopathically minded, surely a game like an MMO that has addictive qualities can change their thinking.
PvE with the PvP-designated arenas is a great way to go. While I enjoy PvE most of the time, PvP can sometimes be fun. With an opt-in mechanic, I think we could get the best of both worlds. Of course having alternate ruleset servers for PvP play would be fun to dip into every once in a while just to see how bananas it can get.
PVE.
Honestly, PVE allows me to relax (odd in a combat oriented game I know), take my time and enjoy the community. I engage with the content and the game itself much more. PVP shifts my focus way too much into one specific goal and I don't care about anything else. Also, I don't want to feel like I'm constantly looking over my shoulder when I'm trying to progress only to get ganked.
With that said, I occasionally enjoy limited pvp in areas like the Arena or guild vs guild pvp for a short time frame. But ultimately I would rather play another game for my pvp needs.
PvE but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy PvP. DAoC was one of my favorite MMO's of all time. I don't enjoy PvP tacked onto a PvE game, as such I never enjoyed it in WoW. You need to design PvP from the ground up simultaneously with every other aspect of the game if you're going to implement it.
Also, again with the exception of DAoC, most MMO's aren't what I would consider PvP. To me PvP is people of aproximate equal power fighting and killing each other. Most MMOs that allow PvP it ends up being high or max level characters going to low level areas and killing players who have no ability to defend themselves.
I still want areas, like the Rathe Arena, on a PvE server and I'm still for having PvP servers. I just wont play on them.
PvE - because that is what your developement team is designing the game around. Thats why I am here (was here. I think). Unique classes and stuff.
If you focus on PvP when developing the game, then all the classes will be more or less the same. PvP should just be an after thought.
Kilsin said:Community Debate - PvE vs PvP, which play-style do you like best and why? #MMORPG #communitymatters
Used to play on a Perm-Death MUD back in the early 90's, played various multiplayer early PvP games, and then on to UO, Shadowbane, Warhammer, Rift, WoW, etc... (also played Doom, Quake, UT and Counterstrike) Did "some" PvP in EQ, but was mainly PvE. I do enjoy PvP, but it is a different style of play and different focus in play that when having to choose, I prefer the PvE systems over. I am a huge cRPG fan and PvP often overshadows the ability to get into that focus of the game.
Many of my guild mates on Stormhammer had left the PvP servers specifically because PvP while fun, got old and gimmicky on the servers (The Legends server was the only server that allowed PvPers to transfer off a PvP server to a PvE one). That is, getting raids done was near impossible with most constantly dealing with a small group wiping a large groups raid easily (EQ raids were long, no error type of fights and while some of the content was simple "tank and spank", all it took was attacking one key player in the raid and it was a wipe and this became more of an issue as the fights in EQ became more dynamic over expansions). So naturally raid progress was extremely slow and gearing up was far beyond risk/reward balance.
Point is, PvP is a completely different focus style of game and requires completely different development attention and design. It is why every game that is a hybrid really ends up being a PvP game where PvE suffers to the requirements of PvP balancing and focus in goals. It is why in WoW, the classes are hemogenized, leveling is easy, gear is easy to gain due to instances, etc..
PvP is its own beast and while I respect it, I also realize it can not coexist with PvE, that PvE becomes a side note to the PvP focus of the game with all elements of play, design and function centering around PvP. So, when I want to PvP, I PvP, and likewise, when I want to PvE, I PvE, but this decision is not an individual choice on a PvP server as what you are really doing is trying to get some PvE in between your constant unchosen PvP. That is, PvP drives the game, not PvE. This is why I am adamant about not playing a game that claims it can balance both. It can not, this has been proven over and over again, PvP drives a PvE game if it is allowed (other than in the case EQ or VR is applying by having PvP servers where the game is about PvE, but they "allow" people to PvP). That is the point of PvP though and I think those specifically choose PvP do so for that very reason, that PvP is the point and the added risk and sense of urgency is a part of the appeal in play (among many other freedoms).
While I respect that, having played such games over the decades, I have noticed a shift in the player base. While there are always bad apples, players today tend to be... well... less couth. Griefing happend even back in the text based MUDs (more easily controlled due to MUDs not generally being as large as MMOs, nor were Wizs, aka developers worrying about legal or publicity when they dealt with getting rid of someone), but... the general attitude of most players back then was different. The game was the point, personal affronts were not (personal insults in good fun aside). Back then we had opposing guilds that lived in the same town and it was not uncommon after one side raided a guild hall, destroyed it, and sent everyone back to start over, to all meet up and drink and laugh at the local bar.
These days, I find many of my opponets to be people I wouldn't even want to be in the same room with, much less share a drink with. Their attitudes are childish, selfish, lacking in integrity and disregarding of the entire point of such play. Because of this, I don't play PvP much anymore (other than in limited games where the populaiton is small and controlled). I know not all PvPers are such, and I am not attempting to with a broad stroke define all as such, but I am saying that there is an increase in the bad apples over the years, to a point where I would rather avoid the experience all together.
So, long story short. I prefer PvE gaming in "Massive" multiplayer settings, as it allows a bit more control in terms of dealing with the unsavory types. While in PvP, you have much more power to inflict punishment on a griefer, I have found that the damage they can do and the amount of justice you can exact from these types is limited. My idea of fun is not perma-camping some griefer, rather it is to focus on the cRPG aspect of game play itself.
I think for story and world building PVE tends to work better for long term goals. I enjoy open world PVP rule set servers as long as there are "safe zones" so younger players are not griefed ... i think as one levels it makes it easier to compete in PVP. The korean version of Archage had a good system of pvp in place. With that said ... PVE over PVP
Vandraad said:Kilsin said:Community Debate - PvE vs PvP, which play-style do you like best and why? #MMORPG #communitymatters
PvE. It is more interesting, more enjoyable and gives me a greater sense of satisfaction.
While I've enjoyed PvP in other games, most notably EVE Online, one thing stuck out most to me. The average player only likes to fight when they know they are going to win. Why fight even odds when, if you brought a few more people, it could vastly increase your odds of winning? Nobody wants to go into a fight knowing they will, or very well might, lose. So fights, especially in EVE Online, were quite usually one-sided. I even saw this back in the EQ days on Rallos Zek and in Ultima Online. When I was in DAoC, Midgard would go out and capture a bunch of Albion keeps, nearly none which were defended by players. After most of our people would log for the night, Albion would come in and retake the keeps with few Midgard defending...then go take our keeps the same way. Rinse and repeat.
In the end, PvP become boring. Fights were either one-sided victories that were boring or huge losses that were frustrating.
Good point. That is, people stopped playing a game for the concept of a game, and merely wanted to be entertained with a "win".
Some of my most enjoyable PvP fights were where it was all out war and the stakes were high, with nobody getting out without losing something even in their gain.
I prefer PVE over PVP right now. I liked PVP in WoW because it wasn't a big deal to die in that game, but in a game like this, I would rather not have to deal with PVPers. That said, I am all for Arenas with PVP, like EQ had. That was fun for a few guilds to get together and kill each other.
Tanix said:Kilsin said:Community Debate - PvE vs PvP, which play-style do you like best and why? #MMORPG #communitymatters
Point is, PvP is a completely different focus style of game and requires completely different development attention and design. It is why every game that is a hybrid really ends up being a PvP game where PvE suffers to the requirements of PvP balancing and focus in goals. It is why in WoW, the classes are hemogenized, leveling is easy, gear is easy to gain due to instances, etc..
Yeah I think Kilsin is just trying to make time go by faster by this question. But your either going to make a great PvE game, or PvP game. Not both. because you will please no one.
PVE but only because of the killing people just to be killing people that happens in PVP.
I long for a server where PVP was available but discouraged, much like it is in real life. We are all capable, but we don't, unless of course there is someone that comes along and needs it.
EDIT: available but discouraged, a bounty system,if you kill a non-pk'er you get a negative mark on player faction. If you kill a pk'er (someone that has negative player faction, then you get +player faction
While I actually don't spend most of my time in an MMO taking part in PvP itself and I'm not fond of 'full loot' experiences that make everything expendable, the existence of unpredictable player-controlled threats that PvP servers bring is appealing to me. When conflicts can be resolved through combat there's greater accountability than if the only way to 'punish' others for their wrongdoings is through words (usually slander). It makes having friendships and dependable allies more important, and player/guild feuds are generally more meaningful and dangerous than NPC enemies that exist to be beaten.