Have you ever been playing an MMO and you find a cave so remote or a quest npc or item so tucked away, you wonder if anyone else playing has ever found it.
Obviously its silly to think you're the first person to discover something, but i get these moments sometimes when playing MMOs.
However in modern MMO these feelings are rarer and rarer as world maps are so small and maps so detailed.
It would be great to be able find things so remote that its likely you are the first person to find them.
World maps so big that you get lost.
I don't want to find a mine or man made tunnel, kill adds until i reach a boss and kill them, then im done with this cave.
Why was this tunnel made, what is it used for, who lives there now, if i dont stop the potential evil in the tunnel, will it affect the world around me.
As for natural caves, there doesnt have to be anything inside, not all the time, it can be empty, it can have monsters.
I would love some enemies to be gone forever once killed and replaced with new enemies.
But i want these enemies to actually pose a threat to the world, if they just pace around in a cave all day theyr're a threat to no one.
What are some of yours hopes for exploration?
IIRC EQ2 had a feature where if you were the first person to find a "thing" you'd get your name on it. It was neat the first two days the game came out.
Honestly with data mining nothing is going to be a surprise unless you intentionally stay off the forums and fan sites. There really isn't a way around that anymore.
I like so many different hidden things, hidden walls, hidden switches, hidden quests, and hidden bosses! Even though its probably completely unrealistic, I always thought it would be cool if you hired real people to play gods, special NPCs, and give one time quests to random people for stuff no one else has. Like someone might get a quest to transport a Dragon Egg and end up with a pet that no one else has or maybe a special skill or weapon! It might unbalance some people and make a lot of people jealous but it would create special moments for players that no one else would of experienced. Plus if you do it completely randomly through actual people its not a thing people can datamine or just high level players can take advantage of. I always thought forced events kind of sucked and never worked out but something random for lucky indivduals could be so awesome haha. But in the end just another personal dream of mine that no one else would share or think could work!
Everquest was full of those moments. There were parts of certain zones that were so huge that it seemed unlikely that anyone else had bothered to travel there. West Karana and and Ocean of Tears come to mind, personally. To this day I never truly fully explored either of them. Who knows what kind of secrets were left unfound? I bet there are quests and items in classic EQ that still haven't been found. I'm sure almost every area was physically visited, but I'm sure there are some secrets to be found. I think part of what I love about Everquest is that I felt like there were so many things that I didn't fully discover. I felt like there was so much mystery in the world.
The Michael's "Everquest Mysteries" videos on Youtube are a strong testament to that feeling among many players. Even if it was fully explored, it certainly felt like it was not. What the heck was down all of those scary hallways in the depths of Kedge Keep? Were there any secrets in Castle Mistmoore that I didn't find? Did I even see everything in lower guk? What the heck was at the bottom of the cliff in East Karana? What secrets did Splitpaw have (I rarely went there). I always felt like so much care went into the design of the zones. I felt like secrets were everywhere. Modern MMOs almost feel like they were designed by robots. It's hard to put my finger on the reason for that.
I think Joppa mentioned something he experienced in a game, forget which one, but it was in a Bazgrim interview where he looked up and saw a beautiful area design that normally would have gone overlooked had ne not stopped and looked up. Also I think in one of the newsletters Joppa or one of the devs mentioned the hermits hut in South Karana and the mystery behind the story behind it. Basd on these feelings I think there will be many places in terminius like the ones you hope for.
For me, its not so much undiscovered places partly because they might not be sustainable, but rather unique places that retain their visual impact on repeated visits- like the "club med" in timorous deep where one of the cleric epic fights was. The opposite of this is the Mage ostuary in Oblivion, I think I got the name right. The game said it was there, but it was never there. The designers received much feedback and I think a player developed a mod to create the ostuary that became one of the most downloaded mods. It had no benefit, it just- was.
After a while I think it would be hard to discover new places, but it would be always cool to go back to cool places or hear of people seeing the cool places for the first time. It's just a bridge heading to North Karana, but- what a bridge. Knowing frostone is at the bottom of crystal caverns is like knowing there is an oasis.
Manouk said:Also I think in one of the newsletters Joppa or one of the devs mentioned the hermits hut in South Karana and the mystery behind the story behind it. Basd on these feelings I think there will be many places in terminius like the ones you hope for.
I found the Hermit and, much to my chagrin, realized that it was quite easy to target him and cast upon him without being hurt. After a few cycles of this...and much soul searching...I reported it to the devs. Could have made many levels quite easily that way.
Damacon said:I like so many different hidden things, hidden walls, hidden switches, hidden quests, and hidden bosses! Even though its probably completely unrealistic, I always thought it would be cool if you hired real people to play gods, special NPCs, and give one time quests to random people for stuff no one else has. Like someone might get a quest to transport a Dragon Egg and end up with a pet that no one else has or maybe a special skill or weapon! It might unbalance some people and make a lot of people jealous but it would create special moments for players that no one else would of experienced. Plus if you do it completely randomly through actual people its not a thing people can datamine or just high level players can take advantage of. I always thought forced events kind of sucked and never worked out but something random for lucky indivduals could be so awesome haha. But in the end just another personal dream of mine that no one else would share or think could work!
Nice idea, but the thought of people getting quests and items and dragon eggs that i can never get myself would be maddening.
I can never condone exclusive items, id rather every one be able to earn everything, as long as theyre willing to put the effort in.
Grimseethe said:Nice idea, but the thought of people getting quests and items and dragon eggs that i can never get myself would be maddening.
I can never condone exclusive items, id rather every one be able to earn everything, as long as theyre willing to put the effort in.
Yep it would make you jealous unless you were the one who had that item/skill/pet then you would probably play that game for life haha. I know I would, if I had some special skill or pet or whatever that made me feel like a truly unique hero.
I mentioned this in some other post something else I would love is if everyone got a random passive skill out of a large pool of them depending on what class you picked, what god you worship, and a few questions you awnsered. As long as you made it so people can't just constantly remake the class until they get what they want it would really make people feel unique and add some extra spice to the game.
That unexplained mystery is (I think) the biggest part of this magical experience.
I want to see things that are just there. I don't want to know why. I want to wonder. I want to speculate. I want to guess....and be wrong. I just want mystery.
EQ was built upon this concept. It wasn't just a place here or there (yes there were plenty of those) but it was everything. A broken wagon wheel next to the road in the middle of the forest. It's just there. It doesn't need a reason. Games today are so dumb, every time you see *ANYTHING* you automatically know it's a quest item or something. EQ had mysteries everywhere, including places. It's not enough to just make hidden locations like caves, or little plateaus way up high, etc. It has to embody everything.
If you can do that, then data mining won't ruin it. If your approach is "we will sprinkle 47 hidden little locations throughout the world", well these will all be on a web-based reference atlas the next day.
If your approach is " the entire world is full of mystery and 200,000 items in the world are just there without explanation", then the secrets (including found locations) are just part of the fabric of the world.
(I'm not explaining that well)
Manouk said:I think Joppa mentioned something he experienced in a game, forget which one, but it was in a Bazgrim interview where he looked up and saw a beautiful area design that normally would have gone overlooked had ne not stopped and looked up.
Yeah, he was talking about Guild Wars 2, in the human city of Divinity's Reach. A mechanical, astrological thing moving overhead near the throneroom.
maelfyn said:... I always felt like so much care went into the design of the zones. I felt like secrets were everywhere. Modern MMOs almost feel like they were designed by robots. It's hard to put my finger on the reason for that.
I have noticed over the years, that many dungeons in newer games are peices. By that I mean, if you look, you will notice that much of a dungeon is made of peices, and those peices are used over and over, all throughout the worlds, some are so similar, you can hardly tell which one you are in. Very few dungeons are designed start to finish with uniqueness.
In EQ, the dungeons were unique. Each had it's own environment, it's own feel. Each had unique halls, caves and rooms. They were often a reflection of the inhabitants. It seemed as if great care was taken in creating them to ensure an adventurous experience.
Damacon said:Yep it would make you jealous unless you were the one who had that item/skill/pet then you would probably play that game for life haha. I know I would, if I had some special skill or pet or whatever that made me feel like a truly unique hero.
I mentioned this in some other post something else I would love is if everyone got a random passive skill out of a large pool of them depending on what class you picked, what god you worship, and a few questions you awnsered. As long as you made it so people can't just constantly remake the class until they get what they want it would really make people feel unique and add some extra spice to the game.
This is a good idea on concept but a poor idea in execution. "Random" is only so random. Hardcore players who log more house and more kills will always have an advantage over casual players based on sheer RNG. And all this would do is create a larger gap between the elite and the casual, which is not always a good thing.
Porygon said:Damacon said:Yep it would make you jealous unless you were the one who had that item/skill/pet then you would probably play that game for life haha. I know I would, if I had some special skill or pet or whatever that made me feel like a truly unique hero.
I mentioned this in some other post something else I would love is if everyone got a random passive skill out of a large pool of them depending on what class you picked, what god you worship, and a few questions you awnsered. As long as you made it so people can't just constantly remake the class until they get what they want it would really make people feel unique and add some extra spice to the game.
This is a good idea on concept but a poor idea in execution. "Random" is only so random. Hardcore players who log more house and more kills will always have an advantage over casual players based on sheer RNG. And all this would do is create a larger gap between the elite and the casual, which is not always a good thing.
Yep in the end I agree, I would love any type of system that would give you something unique to you that would better connect you to your character and keep you playing the game. But as you said be it completely random or somewhat random its still going to create bigger gaps between casual and hardcore players. But in the end if it was my game I rather try something like this and fix it later if it doesn't work then just make my game the same as everyone elses. Maybe the best way to go about it is give characters a unique passive that they don't even know about on creation and at some point you may figure out what it is haha. Or better yet mutiple random passives that you unlock every 10 levels that are somewhat dependant on what kind of player you are through triggers. Like if you die a lot cause you suck maybe you get a passive that lowers your exp loss and res effects time as a off the top of mind crappy example.