I dont really see a problem with selling items online, or even your characters, afterall in games like these its alot of money, however i do think VR should be ready to ban several guilds if they attempt to control the game IE monks FD training groups that zone into a game, eq had a HUGE problem with this, but as far as selling things you have worked for let them, if someone wants to waste money on it then let them, it wont be hard to find out who actually does this as im sure character reputations will be a big thing. And also the reason its a problem in other games is because the GMs dont want to be bothered handling all the situations that occur, if VR is strict on the big guilds controlling content i dont see it being an issue, its all in logs.
Riqq said:I dont really see a problem with selling items online, or even your characters
I do.
Scenario: Initially, six characters are played 24/7 by a few underpaid dudes rotting in a chinese sweatshop with absolutely no interest in socializing. They find a way to block certain content from others so they can grind XP day and night. When reaching max level, the characters are sold for real money by their employer. After the transfers, level 50 characters are frequently invited into guilds or pick-up groups without even the most basic knowledge of how to play.
On top of that, it's cheating. Personally, I don't get my kicks from competing with other players, but I still want to know that when I see a high level character with outstanding gear, it's someone who has worked hard to get there.
yeah but VR can handle this, its simple, top guilds do this sort of thing, lots of peoples eyes are on top guilds, if VR bans top guilds for doing this it will stop, now you might say well you cant ban a whole guild thats not fair, if it takes more than 1 person to aquire the item then more than 1 person are guilty of any actions taken to require such items, and if the guild condones such activities from there members then they are guilty of all the actions required to obtain the items, and it truly is simple, you just pay someone 15 dollars an hour for 8 hours to answer tickets, 3 shifts, offer premiums for weekend workers, if tickets arent getting answered then maybe try paying or offering free subs to the player base to handle it if interested, and have all tickets goto an overhead to review, so start with immediate temp bans which in a week if found to be legit result in permabans. im certain they will make more than enough money to employ such a system, this game is going to be THE GAME to play when it releases.
Why can people buy digital stuff from a company but not another player as well, if its taxed i think its ok. im not really for the dudes farming it like corn, im just saying if i dump 10 years into something and want a throw back when im ready to move on i think that was earned and should be let go without any consequences.
Asbo said:TIME to stop this BS of selling items for RMT it should be outlawed full stop it's a scam and con.
It's neither a scam nor a con. They really do farm gold and they really do sell it. What it is is a blight on the game world that needs to end. Somehow.
Asbo said:It's real easy to stop gold sellers on trail accounts. Do not allow them to use global chat and anything they get in game to be made none tradeable until they upgrade their account to paid version then they can do as they please. Whilst I am against none drop items this is the only time I'd support none drop to prevent abuse and attempts to sell items for RMT.
This now brings out another of my PET HATES, we get to ignore RMT spamming in games but only the character toon we just ignored they can log and delete/create another toon on the same account and rinse and repeat and I have to ignore every toon on that account... PLEASE when I ignore in Panthoen make it so it's account wide not just that toon.
Preventing trial/free players from trading is one thing (and a good one). But preventing them from communicating with other players is a problem for people legitimately using trial accounts to try out a game before buying, particularly in a game that requires social interaction. If VR were to disable communication for trial accounts then they may as well not provide trial accounts at all. I'm not sure they going to allow them in the first place though. This may all be moot.
Count my vote in favor of ignoring entire accounts based on ignoring a single character on that account. This should have been done from the beginning of MMOs.
And don't allow emoji in communications. At all. Only the spammers use them and they crap up the chat instantly.
Preventing trial/free players from trading is one thing (and a good one). But preventing them from communicating with other players is a problem for people legitimately using trial accounts to try out a game before buying, particularly in a game that requires social interaction. If VR were to disable communication for trial accounts then they may as well not provide trial accounts at all. I'm not sure they going to allow them in the first place though. This may all be moot.
Count my vote in favor of ignoring entire accounts based on ignoring a single character on that account. This should have been done from the beginning of MMOs.
And don't allow emoji in communications. At all. Only the spammers use them and they crap up the chat instantly.
I dont think they should do trial accounts tbh, offer refunds instead. Steam does this well with the 2 hour rule, although i would say that for an mmo it needs to be more like a 1 week rule.
Real World TRading and buying accounts, gold, boosting services will be strictly against our ToS and appropriate action would be taken if we can catch them, this is where you guys come in to help too by reporting them and not partaking in these services.
The more people that buy their gold, services and give them money, the bigger they will get and the more they will spread in our game.
So....
I'm going to raid and I'm going to do it at a high level. I also know that I will sell raid spots. (I've done it before) If I'm not breaking any of the EULA, and not abusing any systems in the game and have a market for people who want to pay me/my guild, whats the issue?
Plus, if the game is successful enough and good enough to create a true market IRL then thats a very good sign of the games stenght, depth and future.
Kittik said:So....
I'm going to raid and I'm going to do it at a high level. I also know that I will sell raid spots. (I've done it before) If I'm not breaking any of the EULA, and not abusing any systems in the game and have a market for people who want to pay me/my guild, whats the issue?
Plus, if the game is successful enough and good enough to create a true market IRL then thats a very good sign of the games stenght, depth and future.
Kilsin has already stated that you would be violating it.
Kalok said:Kittik said:So....
I'm going to raid and I'm going to do it at a high level. I also know that I will sell raid spots. (I've done it before) If I'm not breaking any of the EULA, and not abusing any systems in the game and have a market for people who want to pay me/my guild, whats the issue?
Plus, if the game is successful enough and good enough to create a true market IRL then thats a very good sign of the games stenght, depth and future.
Kilsin has already stated that you would be violating it.
No he hasn't. I won't sell money, I won't sell loot, I won't sell anything in game nor will I ask them to give me anything in game. I will sell my knowledge of the game to make money outside of the game. People pay to progress their character. I do nothing inside the game in violation of any rules. It's no different than if I have my friend sit down next to me, we log into our seperate accounts and I give him a raid spot in my raid. For this he hands me $50. This is essentally what I'm doing. Just online, via PayPal or Venmo or any other number of pay sites. No one here is crying foul to any of the streamers who make money from Pantheon already. Beleive it or not streamers get paid the more people that view their channels. So if they have Pantheon on, and it brings in viewers, they make money....from Pantheon...and it's not a bad thing for VR to have a game that is that good that people are willing to do that, or pledge to higher tiers, or donate to YouTube Channel, or FanSites etc. Nor is it a bad thing to think your product is so good it creates jobs.
Kittik said:Kalok said:Kittik said:So....
I'm going to raid and I'm going to do it at a high level. I also know that I will sell raid spots. (I've done it before) If I'm not breaking any of the EULA, and not abusing any systems in the game and have a market for people who want to pay me/my guild, whats the issue?
Plus, if the game is successful enough and good enough to create a true market IRL then thats a very good sign of the games stenght, depth and future.
Kilsin has already stated that you would be violating it.
No he hasn't. I won't sell money, I won't sell loot, I won't sell anything in game nor will I ask them to give me anything in game. I will sell my knowledge of the game to make money outside of the game. People pay to progress their character. I do nothing inside the game in violation of any rules. It's no different than if I have my friend sit down next to me, we log into our seperate accounts and I give him a raid spot in my raid. For this he hands me $50. This is essentally what I'm doing. Just online, via PayPal or Venmo or any other number of pay sites. No one here is crying foul to any of the streamers who make money from Pantheon already. Beleive it or not streamers get paid the more people that view their channels. So if they have Pantheon on, and it brings in viewers, they make money....from Pantheon...and it's not a bad thing for VR to have a game that is that good that people are willing to do that, or pledge to higher tiers, or donate to YouTube Channel, or FanSites etc. Nor is it a bad thing to think your product is so good it creates jobs.
Read his post again. He didn't just say loot and money.
Here. I've pasted it below.
Real World TRading and buying accounts, gold, boosting services will be strictly against our ToS and appropriate action would be taken if we can catch them, this is where you guys come in to help too by reporting them and not partaking in these services.
Selling Raid spots is "boosting services".
Kittik said:Kalok said:Kittik said:So....
I'm going to raid and I'm going to do it at a high level. I also know that I will sell raid spots. (I've done it before) If I'm not breaking any of the EULA, and not abusing any systems in the game and have a market for people who want to pay me/my guild, whats the issue?
Plus, if the game is successful enough and good enough to create a true market IRL then thats a very good sign of the games stenght, depth and future.
Kilsin has already stated that you would be violating it.
No he hasn't. I won't sell money, I won't sell loot, I won't sell anything in game nor will I ask them to give me anything in game. I will sell my knowledge of the game to make money outside of the game. People pay to progress their character. I do nothing inside the game in violation of any rules. It's no different than if I have my friend sit down next to me, we log into our seperate accounts and I give him a raid spot in my raid. For this he hands me $50. This is essentally what I'm doing. Just online, via PayPal or Venmo or any other number of pay sites. No one here is crying foul to any of the streamers who make money from Pantheon already. Beleive it or not streamers get paid the more people that view their channels. So if they have Pantheon on, and it brings in viewers, they make money....from Pantheon...and it's not a bad thing for VR to have a game that is that good that people are willing to do that, or pledge to higher tiers, or donate to YouTube Channel, or FanSites etc. Nor is it a bad thing to think your product is so good it creates jobs.
Selling anything within our IP would be a direct violation of our ToS and appropriate action would be taken. If you sell raid spots with our own in-game currency, that is a different story altogether but any form of RWT (Real World Trading) will result in action being taken against the person(s) violating our ToS.
Kilsin said:Real World TRading and buying accounts, gold, boosting services will be strictly against our ToS and appropriate action would be taken if we can catch them, this is where you guys come in to help too by reporting them and not partaking in these services.
The more people that buy their gold, services and give them money, the bigger they will get and the more they will spread in our game.
you could take a big chunk of this out of the picture by NOT doing trials, it makes sense, the gold farmers would have to buy an account for full price, which would jack the currency to real world currency to a value that someone would be getting divorced if the significant other noticed a whole paychecks worth of money is "missing", seems harsh? nah seems honest to me just saying...
BamBam said: @Kalok Streamers are marketing Pantheon, you are not, by selling a raid spot. Like YouTube are a marketing tool for VR. sure other ppl make their content, and earn some scraps from each view. But pantheon is getting more attention, this way. So it's worth it for VR also. You selling a few raid spots to provide for you self alone? And to market to whom? Seems not worth it form a marketing standpoint. And what about your guild, they also get paid? I for one would not want to carry ppl through content each week to provide loot and sell it, and our guild master takes the cash :) If you want to live from gaming, do it by streaming or make a YouTube channel with a focus on raid guideing - it seems like your great at that, maybe ppl will like and you earn up 50$ that way?
You are yelling at the wrong person. *I* am *NOT* the person advocating for that. How about you read next time, beccause your reading comprehension failed.
*I* am the one telling the other guy that he is VIOLATING the terms of service.
BamBam said:I am curious what are the oppinion from VR on this issue?
Its a bigger problem then ever before, people want to progress and have some money to spare. So they use them to get raid drops, level an alt, buy ingame gold, max out profession skills and so on.
In some of the most popular mmos right now, its is very commen that some guilds sell off some raid spots to random strangers, that pay through a 3th site for this service.
I hope VR got a Hammer and is not afraid to swing it :)
Hoping this will be a hard no. Exp potions were used a lot by guildmates, I ended up using them and we would do 4 to 8 hour grind blocks churning out massive amounts of exp to hit new raid levels, clear expansion levels (50 to 60 in one weekend at launch of Kunark in Agnarr), etc. Yes, cash shop would bring in extra money for the game, I'd rather we not have pay to win items in game. Exp pots, clarity pots, speed pots, sow pots, for sale imo count as pay to win. I will use them for a competitive advantage and each time I do so my resentment for the game will grow until I become disenchanted with the game and not want to play.
If you disagree with me, you are wrong, that is all. :)
In terms of the black market... Good luck catching it. :/
Hoping this will be a hard no. Exp potions were used a lot by guildmates, I ended up using them and we would do 4 to 8 hour grind blocks churning out massive amounts of exp to hit new raid levels, clear expansion levels (50 to 60 in one weekend at launch of Kunark in Agnarr), etc. Yes, cash shop would bring in extra money for the game, I'd rather we not have pay to win items in game. Exp pots, clarity pots, speed pots, sow pots, for sale imo count as pay to win. I will use them for a competitive advantage and each time I do so my resentment for the game will grow until I become disenchanted with the game and not want to play.
If you disagree with me, you are wrong, that is all. :)
In terms of the black market... Good luck catching it. :/
You are so right in everything you just said, the world is now more intelligent for everyone who has read this exact reply, I mean that 100% this is not a troll, /cheers to you my good man!
Porygon said:Spluffen said:Let's take the opportunity to make this thread about multiboxing too: boxing is paying money for level boost
Now I run away ;P
You know boxing isnt that easy right ;)
Boxing is easier than having one character (maybe not in execution but these days people dont click their hotbars at 5 apm anymore). Of course its harder than having a group of real players but that comparison is kinda irrelevant to boxing being p2w or not.