Porygon said:Wow had disenchanting. It was always a greed roll. Noone ever had problems with it.
EQ2 had transmuting. Same deal ... always a greed roll.
Porygon said:Wow had disenchanting. It was always a greed roll. Noone ever had problems with it.
Indeed. WildStar has salvaging as well (and though the crafting mats aren't super useful at this point, the chance of rune set foci is) and I've never encountered anyone trying to need things over other people just for salvaging.
It also helps that in both games, the only people who can need on a piece are those whose class uses that armor type.
I don't see salvaging as anti-social. I see it as another way players can immerse themselves into the game. Of course there will always be the unrepentant greedy players around, but estabished communities, especially those with an older player base, tend to weed out the greedy ones. They eventually find themsellves constantly lfg, but never recieving invites. I believe these types of conflicts help to establish community norms and values more quickly. Salvaging, and the possibilities it creates, actually seems pro-social to me.
Naunet said:Indeed. WildStar has salvaging as well (and though the crafting mats aren't super useful at this point, the chance of rune set foci is) and I've never encountered anyone trying to need things over other people just for salvaging.
It also helps that in both games, the only people who can need on a piece are those whose class uses that armor type.
As well as SWTOR, which had a salvage mechanic that unlocked recipes for reverse engineering items. Still, for most groups we rolled greed on items. I just see it as basic etiquette on my end that you need simply means an item that will be used and upgraded by the character you're using in the group. Otherwise it's generally greed. Groups may vary, but that's usually how I prefer to do it.
The other concept to keep in mind is that “Need Rolls” are really only for when grouping with friends and guild members. Otherwise all trade-able items can and will be liquefied eventually. The biggest issue with Need rolling in a pick up group is that several of the group members could not have anything for their class drop in the area. Are those group members just out of luck? If nothing for a healer drops in an area with “needed” dps items how are you going to fairly reward the healers for joining your group?
Bind on pickup or No drop items are easy to roll need on as they have no real market value except as salvage and likely salvage value will be relatively low compared to a good no-drop item if it is needed by someone.
I would basically put forward that the least stressful and least anti-social mindset is that all trade-able items in groups are always greed rolls. A group can choose to gift an item to a character that could really benefit from the item but it should be the exception not the norm in a pick up group. The second you are in a long term adventuring group, clan, or guild where the team members have a vested interest in you getting stronger then things can change but in a way that still a sort of greed roll as the other players want it for their “henchman”.
Porygon said:Wow had disenchanting. It was always a greed roll. Noone ever had problems with it.
Forgive me if I am incorrect in this, as I haven't played WoW since BC. But in WoW, magic items were pretty common, yes some more rare that others, but new weapons and gear drop pretty regularly as I recall. Unlike in EQ1 where true upgrades were several levels in not 10's of levels appart, and much more rare to come across much less get to drop?
And I thought PRoTF was going more the loot route of EQ than WoW, meaning those items people actually equip will be much more rare.
It was not uncommon to see someone in thier late 40's still wearing pieces of their levels 30's gear.
Fulton said:Porygon said:Wow had disenchanting. It was always a greed roll. Noone ever had problems with it.
Forgive me if I am incorrect in this, as I haven't played WoW since BC. But in WoW, magic items were pretty common, yes some more rare that others, but new weapons and gear drop pretty regularly as I recall. Unlike in EQ1 where true upgrades were several levels in not 10's of levels appart, and much more rare to come across much less get to drop?
And I thought PRoTF was going more the loot route of EQ than WoW, meaning those items people actually equip will be much more rare.
It was not uncommon to see someone in thier late 40's still wearing pieces of their levels 30's gear.
You're not wrong, but when it comes to salvaging and disenchanting the most valuable and rare items came from the gear that required a group to farm etc.
Also, in not sure in agree with the statement that pantheon will be more like eq than wow. I think you'll see it somewhere in the middle. I mean theres already a full set of gear available from BRK for tanks. And that's just 1 dungeon.
IMHO, need should only be for those that will use the ACTUAL item on the character that earns it. Anything less, alts/scavenging/sacrificing, etc., is greed.
However, that’s the best part of a social game. Each group can create their own loot rules. Always check loot rules before you join a party. Know what you are getting into. If you want something for an alt and they don’t agree, leave the group or dont join it, well before You get anywhere near the item. If you are hunting a specific item for an alt, negotiate that before hand.
I can’t count the number of times that I have put together or been a part of a group attempting to get a specific item for a specific character (even one that is not in the group). Usually, the group is made up of guildies or friends. But, the purpose is decided in advance and all are in agreement. Sometimes, you add a few PUGs in to fill the group, but you always let the PUGs know up front what the plans are.
Every group can be different. That’s the great part. The rules are what the party agrees To. You don’t like the rules, don't join the party.