I prefer chain quests and epic quests versus bullshit quests. If your quest log is full of quests in 15 mins, the game has too many bullshit quests. Quests should be interesting events that send the player on a journey, not just running door to door picking up grocery store errands. They need to take time and have multiple stages, in other words be meaningful.
It isn't so much the quantity as it is quality. You can have a million quests if they are mostly of high quality writing/lore/engagement, but if the opposite were true then there would be about a million quests too many.
EQ had a lot of really good quests. They often had unique rewards and equally often required dedication to complete instead of being quests you can finish easily nearby just by doing normal leveling activities. The level 30ish class armor quests were awesome and required a lot of investment specifically toward completing them as you had to travel all over the world to various places/dungeons/camps for each piece, but the reward was worth taking the time away from focusing on leveling.
Iksar said:EQ had a lot of really good quests. They often had unique rewards and equally often required dedication to complete instead of being quests you can finish easily nearby just by doing normal leveling activities. The level 30ish class armor quests were awesome and required a lot of investment specifically toward completing them as you had to travel all over the world to various places/dungeons/camps for each piece, but the reward was worth taking the time away from focusing on leveling.
Those are my kind of quests! Love it
LOVED many of the armour quests in EQ and I really hope Pantheon has epic quests. One of the most memorable moments in my EQ and MMO playing career was completing my cleric's 1.0. <3
Iksar said:EQ had a lot of really good quests. They often had unique rewards and equally often required dedication to complete instead of being quests you can finish easily nearby just by doing normal leveling activities. The level 30ish class armor quests were awesome and required a lot of investment specifically toward completing them as you had to travel all over the world to various places/dungeons/camps for each piece, but the reward was worth taking the time away from focusing on leveling.
Yes!!
I think that if by quest you refer to a meaningful, engaging, well thought out activity that rewards according to the difficulty required, I have no real limit on number. As others have shared, tasks that require tedious repetition are not quests. Difficulty, for me, does not mean a 24 hour camp for a respawn. That falls under tedium.
I don't like a ton of quests. Waters down the content and lore. Hate the kill 10 rats quests. I view those more as tedious tasks. Quests need to be a lot more meaningful. EQ had a ton of quests that made you figure out and go to many places to complete. Getting tash for your enchanter, or the ghoulbane quest for the Paladin that turned to even a greater quest later on for the soulfire. I love quests like that. Make them interesting and intricate in the world. Please don't do a sloppy job by putting in a bunch of kill 10 of this and 10 of that. Also, the collect 15 of this that drops off these mobs are annoying. I am not opposed to those in the beginning, but they shouldn't be useful once your like lvl 11-15.
Nephretiti said:The thing about a quest log is that you do not have to accept the quest if you don't want it. Don't want to quest? Don't. Free to play YOUR way!
To be honest, this.
VR just needs to make sure that they balance the XP rewards from quests to align with XP from (*shudder*) grinding, so that neither one becomes the only way to level. If a player doesn't want to quest (or just doesn't want to do a particular quest), then there'd be nothing forcing them to pick them up.
Numbers doesn't matter.
I really wish more games embraced Amazing, awesome, voice acted deep story telling cinematic CLASS SPECIFIC quest like Star Wars: The Old Republic.
I LOVED how rich and deep each story was and how the story would have you go to a task, but it was on an epic scale. No "kill ten rats" type stuff.
it was investigate the sith lords in balmora. etc.
These quest could be something like Talk to Fion in BRK to find the "insert anything here", she was the last to know of it. when you "beat" her, she yields, curses you and talks to you about the quest that you are on, at the end of the diolgue, she dies and boom, everyone loots. That would be an easy way to take a Class quest and tie in needing a group to fulfill the quest requirements.
As a class type, she could hand each class a piece of paper specific to that class to take them elsewhere to do something else.
IN other words. the quest should be Deep, full of Lore, Meaningful, lengthy with some SOLO sections, and some group sections.
Instead of kill "TEN" ghasts, have an NPC instruct you to kill Undead in Halnir Cave until you find the "Hand of Vekna" (whatever you wanna make them get). Then present the hand to The King of liches in the East.... blah blah etc etc.
SWTOR did these types of Quests in "chapters" like a book. It would sometimes take Weeks to complete the "chapter" (quest line/story) but it was nothing short of awesome/epic/amazing and stupid fun.
I know pantheon is not voice acted, not does it have any cinematic cut scenes, but maybe VR can find a way to make quests engaging and dynamic and fun.
So far, I am not sold on the Perception system. I like the "idea" of it, but I will be honest, something as Vague as "The rocks look like they've see many battles" isn't fun. No one is going to know what to do with that info so everyone will just wait until they can look up the answer online. There will be 20 people that scour the world trying to solve these "puzzles" everyone else will just read the answers because they don't get it.
Here is what I see Perceptive Quests being like: https://www.pcgamer.com/how-a-hidden-note-and-a-demonic-baby-goat-sent-wow-players-on-an-epic-secret-quest/
I want some Tomb Raider mystery, some SWTOR storyline type quests. Good stuff. But I also like EQ1 quests where you could turn in Wine to some dude in the library to gain faction, or deathfist belts etc etc
PS: quest can yield very little exps rewards as far as I am concerned as long as they are GOOD quests.
Naunet said: VR just needs to make sure that they balance the XP rewards from quests to align with XP from (*shudder*) grinding, so that neither one becomes the only way to level. If a player doesn't want to quest (or just doesn't want to do a particular quest), then there'd be nothing forcing them to pick them up.
Joppa said in the Early Monk Gameplay (50:57) stream with CohhCarnage:
"So our quest system, perception system is pretty unique. One of the decisions we made was to remove the leveling focus from our quest system, because part of what we are wanting to do is to move away from the 'On the rails' approach, that linear approach to questing. When questing is your primary way to level up then that's all you are really looking for is the next round of quests. So while there will be some quests that provide experience, the primary way you will level up in Pantheon is through combat, through vanquishing enemies. There will probably be some experience gains tied into certain, when your character gains skills in certain ways as you are progressing through the perception system for example or crafting system. We are open to the idea of tying some of those advancements into your adventuring experience. What you will not see is quest hub after quest hub filled with quests and then working through your quest journal as the fastest way to level."
A little later in Same video (54:01) the question is asked: Is there any reason NOT to become a keeper? (Becoming a keeper is what unlocks the entire perception system).
Joppa responds:
"I will answer that question by saying; Is there any reason not to become a crafter? You can think of perception very much like another sphere of the game just like crafting is. Your decision to become a Keeper is purely one of wanting to have access to that kind of game play. If you are interested in the Lore."
So basically... in Pantheon, questing is meant to be optional.
While I am sure you can have too many or too little quests I think it would be hard for me to define what I would consider ideal amount. What I can say is that exp should not be part of a quest reward. I feel by offering exp it leads players to grind quests just for the exp making the game feel like is on rails.
Having a few long quests that take days, weeks, or even months to complete is how I prefer it. Maybe throw in the rare "collect these items and turn in" type of quests occasionally. Running from place to place doing non-stop questing (Looking at you Elder Scrolls Online), day after day, because it is the best way to get experience is absolutely horrible.
I enjoy quests. Short, medium, long, especially not knowing which is which. And i think quests should give both drops and experience. I see no reason why anyone should be forced to quest. The idea that people don’t want quests because then they have to do them is silly in my book. Do what you enjoy.
Kilsin said:Community Debate - How many quests in an MMORPG are too many, in your opinion? #PRF #MMORPG #MMO #communitymatters
this is a very important question.
and the answers is as few as possible, because quests make the MMO world into an online version of "the amazing race" when you or your party run from hub to hub trying to complete tasks as fast as possible and reach the end line to win the prize.
but the most important aspect is that quests should not grant XP at all.
quests should grant currency and reputation, skills, special gear, crafting materials and any other reward except XP.
in a perfect MMO, the only quests are quests granted by trainers to level up or to get new skills.
when you have enough XP to level up, you go to your trainer and in order to level up you have to complete a quest.
first ten levels , these quests are solo quests, next levels to half the max level are duo/trio quests, from half max level and up all quests are group quests involving a dungeon boss, the quest to MAX level is a raid quest.
so the perfect amount of quests in game is the number of classes multiply by the amount of levels.
Questaar said:I enjoy quests. Short, medium, long, especially not knowing which is which. And i think quests should give both drops and experience. I see no reason why anyone should be forced to quest. The idea that people don’t want quests because then they have to do them is silly in my book. Do what you enjoy.
Like you I also enjoy quests of all lengths. Not so sure about knowing which is which... but that is a small thing to me. Over the years as I bounced from mmo to mmo looking for the next EQ I learned that doing what you enjoy is paramount. But at times you see a game guide a player to do exactly the opposite of what at least I find as fun.
So by giving exp for doing quests it can lead to be by far the most rewarding way to level. So at times when leveling was my goal I would find doing all quests I could find no matter if I found them fun or wanted the loot was the best way to achieve my goal. I find this to really be true when leveling an alt. How many times have you played the starter area and take every quest even though you know the loot is not for your class and the quest is boring the first time let alone the 10th time.
I think it is imperative that long quests are not linear as in A->B->C->D->Bingo!. It would generally be better if they were more like A+B+C+D=Bingo!
I say this because Pantheon's focus on grouping will make it difficult for many players to find a suitable band of brothers do to the entire quest from A to D with (although it would a great experience to share). Conversely, if you were dungeon running with a group and saw mob "B", you could tell the group "I need him for a quest", and everybody would feel even more motivated to kill "B". Of course, for narrative reasons some linearity might be required, but it's something to bare in mind, IMO.
Hi
My point on this is to have many quest BUT make them optional. So if you are in a hurry to endgame skip it , but if you whant the experience ,reward and lore do them but do not make them a must. Some Main quest should be a "Must" but keep it on e decent level time wize with minding groupe, hardness and such. Hate to be stuck just for lack of groupe able to handle task or to long so no one whant to help.
I vote for "not a lot".
I think quests should be broken into "Uncommon/Rare", "Crafting" and "Epic".
Uncommon/Rare:
If I come across a quest, I want it to reward something unique/cool (unique looking armour, a fancy spell, etc) and be long and rewarding to achieve. It might take me a full day (12 hours) game time, or a week of playing every night, but by the end it should feel like "Wow, that was worth this cool item!". These would be relatively uncommon, with only maybe a handfull for the entire zone (maximum!).
Crafting:
I'd also like to see crafting quests, but not so many that it disrupts the process of crafting. If I want to craft all day, I should be able to (assuming I have the materials). I don't want it to be like "Oh I crafted two things, now I have to go do a hugely elaborate quest!" over and over again. Maybe have very cool and unique crafted item recipes learnt via long chain quests.
Epic:
You know the ones. Everquest Epic Weapon quests; unique chains per class (possibly per faction) for a HUGE reward!
I actually do as few quests as possible. I'm so glad Pantheon isn't going to be the arbitrary "go to this area and complete all these quests, then go to the next area." I'd much rather group up and grind for XP, gear, and money, but if the quests grants an ability or epic reward, I'd do it.
Fulton said:Not so many that I can spend hours a day doing multiple quests in a single area.
Quests should be just that, quests. Multi-faceted, challenging storylines to acheive something of desire. If that desire is some armor, weapon, faction, etc.
Quests are not Tasks, and vice-versa. A Task is "Collect 10 Orc Scalps And Return Them To Me". A quest is, "I heard rumors of a powerful weapon, people say Dudly Dooright knows how to find it", and you go searching to find out who Dudly Dooright is and where he is, then visit him and he tells you, "Ah, yes, the Sword of the Heavens. Long thought to hve been lost after an epic battle with the Troll King." And he goes on to give you some history and clues of where this battle took place.
There should be enough quests to keep people working on them, some should take multilple levels to accomplish. But there should not be so many that you basically spend all your time collecting and completing quests.
Quests should also be more about the story and reward, than any insignifcant amount of xp you gain from completing them.
I agree completely!
Quest should involve things like... working to get your epic weapons and gear with help from friends spanning over several character levels or raising and training your griffon to fly you to you next adventure. Tasks should help you build favor with certain communities and yield you leveling experience, gold, gear, consumables, faction etc.