One thing I loved about a certain game (ahem) is the fact that there were quests that would benefit you but were not immediately in your starting area. For example, Crushbone belts were for a quest in Kaladim that benefited you greatly...but if you were a High Elf or a Wood Elf you had to travel all the way to the Dwarf city to turn them in. I loved that! It forced you to travel and explore and ask questions. The idea behind fewer quests that are more meaningful, rather than thousands of quests just to do things, is more appealing to me.
Having a lighter quest log allows the freedom to breathe and explore the world at your own whim, rather than being directed by quests. I'd rather the game be more arbitrarily guided rather than forced on a "questing path" that everyone will experience.
How many babanas in a building are too many? ;-)
Impertinence aside, I like questing and provided none but a few epic ones (how many is a few? I don't know) are mandatory -- in a broad sense -- I suppose there can be as many as the content creators can manage. And by "manage" I don't mean thousands of "Kill 10 rats". :-)
Not so many that I can spend hours a day doing multiple quests in a single area.
Quests should be just that, quests. Multi-faceted, challenging storylines to acheive something of desire. If that desire is some armor, weapon, faction, etc.
Quests are not Tasks, and vice-versa. A Task is "Collect 10 Orc Scalps And Return Them To Me". A quest is, "I heard rumors of a powerful weapon, people say Dudly Dooright knows how to find it", and you go searching to find out who Dudly Dooright is and where he is, then visit him and he tells you, "Ah, yes, the Sword of the Heavens. Long thought to hve been lost after an epic battle with the Troll King." And he goes on to give you some history and clues of where this battle took place.
There should be enough quests to keep people working on them, some should take multilple levels to accomplish. But there should not be so many that you basically spend all your time collecting and completing quests.
Quests should also be more about the story and reward, than any insignifcant amount of xp you gain from completing them.
In a MMORPG, there can never be too many quests! :)
However, in a single zone (or city or outpost), you should be careful not to overwhelm the players. Of course, in a large town there should be more quests than in a small outpost. One thing I hated in many recent MMOs was coming to a rather small outpost and see dozens of shields from far already ("OMG must...talk...to...so...many...NPCs...again!).
And it's very important how you obtain those quests (since there won't be shields above the NPC heads in Pantheon). Imagine coming to a new place, with possibly hundreds of NPCs (welcome to Thronefast!). Do I need to talk to every single one of them to find if they have something for me to do? Or worse, do this repeatedly, in case some NPCs will only talk to me when I gain enough faction? Although there's the perception system in Pantheon, which may change this process totally..
Instead, there should be some starting points. Maybe a notice board, which sends you directly to a few NPCs. Or a tavern/inn where you can talk to the innkeeper. Or the guild master which you talk to first after creating your char :) Here I think it would be great if the devs were thinking from the perspective of an adventurer ("I'm new to this place, noone knows me, who can I talk to for work?"). When you complete their tasks, they can send you to other NPCs that need help. But please avoid quest chains if possible (quest C requires you to first finish quest B, which requires quest A). These are really annoying, especially if they require groups to complete. So the NPCs should only give hints like "If you're looking for more work, talk to XY" when refering you to other NPCs.
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/7101/what-makes-a-good-quest/view/post_id/171076
In the above link I tried to break down quest into Errant Knight Quests, Citizen Tasks, and Commerce Contracts. We tend to bunch them up together under one term but they really each serve a different purpose and if handled correctly could all still be a benefit to Pantheon.
TLDR on the other post
Errant Knight quests:
Longer, lore driven quests that are not repeatable and reward experience and powerful items. Eq Epic quests are a good example of max level Errant Knight Quests.
Citizen Tasks:
Citizen tasks are the horrible, grindy, quests we all love to hate. Rather than have them be a method of leveling have them be the only way to gain faction for the specific groups you are helping/hurting and remove faction gains from killing mobs (though faction hits can still be applied). This will make having a faction mater but also if you dont have a reason to have high faction then never do a single one of these quests.
Commerce Contracts:
Bring me X in exchange for Y. Thats all, no faction, no experience. Just a trade with an NPC for world items. There is a whole Trade Union system that can also tie into crafting class contracts but that's a much bigger discussion.
I would limit the number of Errant Knight Quests in order to keep them significantly long and rewarding as well as being tied to higher quality lore. Citizen Tasks and Commerce Contracts are more based on repeatability to serve their purpose. Each city should have their own set of Citizen Tasks and Commerce Contracts but they should be completely optional and not part of the leveling curve.
If we are primarily using the perception system to start quests I would think that only having 1-2 in a given area would be good. With that said, I am assuming that these quests will have multiple steps, not just "collect 4 belts that don't stack in your inventory (because you can only fit 8 belts in a backpack apparently) and return them to me for an incredible amount of experience"... because nothing teaches you combat and life experiences like handing someone 4 belts. To me, that sounds more like a "task" than a "quest". With that said, you should be able to have as many "tasks" as you like.
Having a Log to track your quest/task progress would be very helpful too. Perhaps have a Log with 3 tabs: Quests, Tasks, Bounties.
A way to break them down could be something like:
Quests - (Only a few in each region that utilize the perception system to include class/race specifc "Quests")
-Quests should have multiple steps to complete and require traveling to more than one region
-Not repeatable -edit: The perception parts of the quest should only repeat if you have not completed that part of the quest or it is no longer in your Log (due to completion or abandonment).
-Should feel challenging and rewarding with a tangible reward (risk vs reward) of item/spell/skill/key as well as experience
---Classic EQ examples of "quests" include Journeyman's boots, Epic weapons, Eyepatch of plunder, Coldain Ring
Task - (As many as you can create) Classic collect X number of items and return them to me / Craft X number of items (moderate monetary reward and/OR experience)
-Repeatable
-Can span multiple regions
---Classic EQ examples of "tasks" include bottle of red wine quest, class specific armor quests from Sol Ro
Bounties - (As many as you can create) Kill X NPC and bring back Y item/bodypart as proof - High monetary reward or items (family heirlooms), no experience (eperience is gained through killing bounty)
-Rare/named spawns should not repeatable to avoid overcamping but trivial bounties can be repeated (orc ears or batwings)
-Target should be in region bounty is obtained -edit: unless it can be explained through story why someone in Europe would place a bounty on a murderer in Canada...
---Classic EQ examples of "bounties" include crushbone belts, bone chips
Kilsin said:Community Debate - How many quests in an MMORPG are too many, in your opinion? #PRF #MMORPG #MMO #communitymatters
I've not encountered a "too many quests" problem in any MMO I've played. So... uh... That number would have to be insanely high. So high that I may as well just say, "Never too many quests!"
I love questing. In addition to the fun stories (anything from minor side stuff to major story quests) and the lore insight, I get an undeniable satisfaction from just completing all these tasks. It's like checking off a to-do list. Perhaps I'm weird, but I love it.
I also despise grinding mobs for XP, so lots of quests is good for my leveling experience, as well.
[edit] On a side note, I'm not a fan of all quests being mandatory (e.g. how it's handled in FFXIV). I do like to have freedom as to when I choose to complete quests. On some of my alts, I don't actually even do much in the way of questing and instead level via dungeons for variety. Variety is the spice of life, after all! So, lots and lots of quests = good. All quests mandatory = bad.
There *is* no limit to the number of quests - the more the better.
Far more important than the number of quests is how quickly they let you gain levels.
The answer to the question "How quickly should you be able to gain levels by doing quests" is identical to the answer to the question "how quickly should you be able to gain levels by grinding".
The correct answer is "slowly".
Some people here have a knee-jerk reaction that quests are bad because they think of games where you can quest your way up far too rapidly. With all due respect, they are wrong. The evil isn't the questing, it is the excessively rapid progress. Gaining levels far too fast by grinding is in no respect whatsoever better than gaining levels too fast by questing. In fact it can be worse depending on how it is done.
If I find a good camp, kill for a day. move to the next zone, find a good camp, kill for a day ...... I probably see a *lot* less of the world the developers poured their hearts into making than if I do every quest in the game to get the identical number of experience points.
Some people dislike quests for a different reason - they view them as "hand-holding" and want to go around with no guidance and direction at all. I feel otherwise but I am not saying *these* people are "wrong" since their preferred way to play is as valid as mine. But I think the game will do far better especially drawing new people in and holding their interest if it has quests and story lines, as long as these operate more like guides than rails - those that like this structure can use them but not to gain experience much faster than the experience others may get by grinding.
Kilsin said:Community Debate - How many quests in an MMORPG are too many, in your opinion? #PRF #MMORPG #MMO #communitymatters
That is an impossible question to answer because there are so many variables involved. First and foremost is the definition of quest. Is an NPC telling you to go kill 5 orc actually a quest? No, it is just a simple task. So a quest, then, needs to be more involved, more complex where it is up to the player not only where to go, but exactly what needs obtained and then what to do with it. The quest giver should never say "go to this zone, kill this specific NPC and obtain this specific item then do exactly this with it." This is still a task.
In addition, there are the differences between what is mundane, what is powerful and what powerful things are tied to the lore, history and myth of a given race. Do you need to quest for a simple steel bracer? No, as any smith could easily make one. Do you need a quest to kill the Kobold King because he wields a powerful hammer you could use? Again, no, because you'd eventually stumble upon the Kobold King, kill it and get his hammer. But, if you remember back to EQ1, the Coldain Prayer Shawl. There is something which is powerful and is wrapped in the lore, history and myth of the Coldain. They wanted you to earn it because of all you've done for their people by killing Kromzek/Kromriff giants, etc.
This isn't a hard number, but as I first said, the question is impossible to answer.
EDIT: More thoughts.
It really comes down to how do you want players to obtain a given piece of gear, an item or a spell? Again, if it is something mundane then just let players buy it or have it just drop somewhere in the world. If it is powerful yet still a simple stand-alone thing, have it drop in group level content or raid (depending upon how powerful it is). But if you really want the process to earn it to match its strength, its rarity and how it ties into the lore then definitely make it the result of a quest.
In the end, true quests need to be memorable and give the player a true sense of accomplishment. To satisfy that, they do need to be at most uncommon and at least rare.
Vandraad said: ... This isn't a hard number, but as I first said, the question is impossible to answer.
Agreed.
Heck, there are starting quests for each race, for each class, for each tradeskill, then lore, diplomacy, faction, flavor, experience, perception, increasing or learning new skills including all combat skills, spells, non-combat skills like distraction, luring, and tempting. there are so many quests or tasks associated with each of them, unique by alignment/continent/race/class, there is no fixed number.
Then there's procedural quests which can be added in for every single NPC in the world, if desired, to offer flavor buffs or long term crafting buffs, or any effect you'd care to.
However, if the question is how many concurrent quests on the client UI, tracked per character? Then there should be no limit. nvme SSDs are cheap and plentiful. RAID10 databases have been a thing for over 15 years. With "the cloud", storage, disk, cpu and network scale almost without limit. If I can gather 200 quests, then the UI should support that, with filtering, sorting by distance/level/etc, and the ability to selectively & permanently hide, drop or remove quests at any time, and pick them up again at any time.
As far as being able to level up on quests or not, that's a design goal. In EQ1, quests that were repeatable were... wait for it... repeated! So, if the devs don't want people turning in 1000 tumpy tonics or 1000 muffins to gain XP, then either don't make the quests repeatable, or don't grant any XP of any kind. Same goes with faction quests. If you don't want me turning in 5000 wine to become non-KOS with dark elves, then don't allow that quest to be repeatable.
So, if, when playing Pantheon after launch day, and there are quests like this? And they are repeatable? Then expect people to be completing those from launch day forward. Because they will. :)
I think quests are an important item in any mmorpg. Although too many quests is a tedious affair. Also the collection quest- collect 30 bat wings etc- are good for newbies only. they should have an level cap to do any quest. But I really would like to se some mini epic quests to aquire class specific items that would be no-drop. these quests could be given by your class guild. They too should have a level cap and one time only, not repeatable.but in answer to your question maybe a hundred quests spread out through all the zones per 5 level interums would be enough.
As others have said, there's not a simple answer to this question.
For me it's very much a quality > quantity thing. Quests should feel meaningful, both in what they ask you to do as a player, and in the story and rewards that they tell you. They should challenge you as a player, and not give you a detailed checklist to get to your goal. They should require you to talk to investigate, to talk to NPCs, to explore places you wouldn't normally go, and to solve puzzles and riddles along the way.
In games where this has been done well, it usually ends up only being 1-2 quests per town or city, just because the level of writing involved makes it less feasible to have more than that side by side. This doesn't mean that they're couldn't be more - it's just that most games design towns/cities as temporary hubs rather than as places where someone might stay for a long time.
It only becomes "too much" when there's a narrative or visual overload for the player. If the same bartender is a participant in 18 different quests... that's narrative overload. On the other hand, if the bartender knows something about two of them, and other NPCs scattered around town know about 1-2 of the others... that's more believable. And visual overload just happens when all of those NPCs have quest markers floating over their head.
So, bring on the quests. I love quests. As many as you want. Just make them good and meaningful ones.
Also, this is a group oriented game so if Pantheon gives me a thousand quests to complete and I have to group for a majority of them, it sounds quite tedious, especially as the game gets older where you may struggle to find groups at the lower levels JUST to quest. The more quests that are implemented into the game the more "solo" the game should become, which is not the direction VR wants to take the game. Or make all the menial quests/tasks soloable...but again, this deters grouping.
I think there needs to be a balance on the amount of quests where it doesn't start to feel like a solo MMO but yet it doesn't feel tedious because you have to group for everything.
For a good long while I was at the top of the leader boards for EQ2 in quests completed. I had thousands. For each of my characters. There can not be too many quests. There can be quests of every type. There can be quests that are purely cosmetic. There are every type of quest you can imagine and a few hundred more that you never had a clue about. The big questions shouldn't be "How many is too many", the question should be "How many will you try to do". My answer is "All of them".
Honestly, I would even do corporate sponsered quests "just because". Would love to see Coke pay for a quest that results in trivial in-game rewards and a coupon for a liter of coke. And I do not drink soda of any kind. But if you DO go with any sponsored corporate-type questing, you MUST include an opt-out option button so that players who hate this idea do not even see the offers for it.
I'd like to see only several full questlines per area which are unlocked through the use of the perception system. There could be other little "tasks" as Vandraad said but quests should be lengthly projects to work towards.
It would also be cool to have faction missions where to go from rank 4 to 5, for example, would require and epic quest to complete. FFXI had some missions like that and it was awesome to get a group together and complete them.
One more type of quest I would like to see implemented is the limit break quest. Maybe every 10 levels you need to complete a quest to open up access to the next level range. They will get progressively harder each time, requiring groups to complete.
Obiviously, more quests means more content but as others have said, there should be meaning behind them. When I hear someone asking for help on a certain quest I want to know immediately what quest is it because it was so memorable from when I completed it.
1) Quality over quantity.
2) More group quests, less solo.
3) No waypoints.
4) No quest hubs.
5) Make quests challenging, not just time consuming. (Tasks are not quests.)
6) Less rails, more exploration and discovery.