Is there any discussion as to how maps would work? It would be great if they let you make you own map with a general outline (i.e. major cities and a grid to assist with the scale of the game). a simple fuction to allow you to draw would suffice with a small text box. You could even include an NPC that would allow you copy anothers players map for a cost (perhaps more expensive for the amount of editing you did to the map). I guess it may be difficult to balance feature creep with immersion, but it seems it would be great rather than a standard mmo map.
Please check out the following link for Frequently Asked Questions: http://pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/8530/frequently-asked-questions
Here is an excerpt where maps are discussed:
34) Will there be a cartography profession?
Quote from Kilsin (07/13/2017) https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2420/maps-of-various-kinds/view/page/6
"Let's just take a deep breath and remember these are your personal opinions folks, some will love maps, some will despise them, either way, we have made our decision to not include maps in Pantheon, we will have an Atlas of the Terminus world and if people want to create their own maps externally, that is great, we encourage teamwork and the community coming together like that but we will not offer one in game and we have not decided on a cartography skill or not yet but it is something we could consider down the track.
If we get into testing and get overwhelming feedback that a map is needed, we can then look at options but for now, our focus is on getting the game into testing and that does not include a map."
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2420/maps-of-various-kinds ;; (Open)
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2962/mapping-mini-maps-quest-arrows ;; (Open)
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/988/world-maps ;; (Open)
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/6086/scribe-crafting-maps ;; (Open)
There will be no minimap and no map .
However there are several threads concerning a cartography skill (look in crafting forum) . I think that the devs said that it was an interesting idea but it is clearly not a priority and it is not even sure that it will be developped one day .
Maps probably not necessary. I’d prefer to open my notebook and grab a pen. We will see what happens.
I'd rather be able to somehow acquire an in-game map for zones, whether they be drops, trade-skill products or just bought (maybe behind a faction wall). Not the GPS-style map of newer games where you are yourself represented, just a map. If that's not avaliable, I'm just going to keep them in my browser on the other screen which isn't the end of the world but having them in-game would be pretty nice.
EDIT: Actually, since the automap-or-not debate isn't exactly common in MMORPG discussions I'd rather just point to first-person blobbers. When I play Wizardry, I never draw maps on graph paper (I know, its heresy), i just look them up online. In the 80s that wasn't an option of course but at this time there's no way I'm going to not look the map up because the tempation is just too great. Most modern blobbers ofc have an automap (which is fine for that genre) but while the DS Etrian Odyssey games maybe aren't the greatest blobbers in the world, they do have a great "cartography" feature (you draw the features on with the stylus on the DS screen and would work just as well with a mouse).
Anyway, those maps aren't necessarily applicable to a game that doesn't have grid movement but I think there's a good point to the whole idea of in-game maps. I can only speak for my own habits of course but games with automapping take out the consideration of geography completely while games with no maps (or just dumapic lol) just make me google maps. The cartopgrahy thing in Etrian Odyssey makes the maps themselves part of gameplay and as such they make me care about the geography and figuring the land out. I don't know, of course, but I think a lot of people would have similar habits to me when it comes to this.
The thing about gaming maps is that if you say there will be no maps, someone will have every map posted online somewhere before the game actually releases. That being the case, if VR does NOT include maps, then they will be driving it's player base to third-part sites to obtain the information. I have had experience with this. I would suggest in-game maps (however it may be done) with an option to simply turn maps off based on the end-user's preference. This way everyone gets what they want. Most importantly, VR keeps it's player base focused on where it should be - VR's services.
Nephretiti said:The thing about gaming maps is that if you say there will be no maps, someone will have every map posted online somewhere before the game actually releases. That being the case, if VR does NOT include maps, then they will be driving it's player base to third-part sites to obtain the information. I have had experience with this. I would suggest in-game maps (however it may be done) with an option to simply turn maps off based on the end-user's preference. This way everyone gets what they want. Most importantly, VR keeps it's player base focused on where it should be - VR's services.
"I would suggest in-game maps (however it may be done) with an option to simply turn maps off based on the end-user's preference. This way everyone gets what they want." <- This kind of argument seems to be very popular but I think it doesn't work well in a multiplayer game. As you're co-operating, your team mates will expect you not to intentionally hamstring yourself and as you're competing you wouldn't want to intentionally put yourself at a disadvantage. This is true for almost any feature where "just don't use it if you don't like it" is used as an argument.
That said, it seems like you're more conscerned with this in a business sense for VR?
Spluffen said:Nephretiti said:The thing about gaming maps is that if you say there will be no maps, someone will have every map posted online somewhere before the game actually releases. That being the case, if VR does NOT include maps, then they will be driving it's player base to third-part sites to obtain the information. I have had experience with this. I would suggest in-game maps (however it may be done) with an option to simply turn maps off based on the end-user's preference. This way everyone gets what they want. Most importantly, VR keeps it's player base focused on where it should be - VR's services.
"I would suggest in-game maps (however it may be done) with an option to simply turn maps off based on the end-user's preference. This way everyone gets what they want." <- This kind of argument seems to be very popular but I think it doesn't work well in a multiplayer game. As you're co-operating, your team mates will expect you not to intentionally hamstring yourself and as you're competing you wouldn't want to intentionally put yourself at a disadvantage. This is true for almost any feature where "just don't use it if you don't like it" is used as an argument.
That said, it seems like you're more conscerned with this in a business sense for VR?
When you indicate that I am hamstringing myself in this particulare scenario I need more information. Am I hamstringing myself by NOT choosing to use the maps or am I hamstringing myself by using the maps and not putting forth the effort to actually learn the zones? There are many excuses for the selections here. Some folks should not ever use a map. EVER. A long time ago, I was a Rifleman in a Marine Infantry Battelion (1st Battalion, 7th Marines). While it is true that we were all Marines - every single one of us - some of us were just, shall we say - spatially challanged. They couldn't read a map. But they knew to stay with the rest of the fire-team/squad/platoon/company/battalion/etc. They may not lead the way, but damn if they weren't the best fighting men on this little blue rock.
Nephretiti said:When you indicate that I am hamstringing myself in this particulare scenario I need more information. Am I hamstringing myself by NOT choosing to use the maps or am I hamstringing myself by using the maps and not putting forth the effort to actually learn the zones? There are many excuses for the selections here. Some folks should not ever use a map. EVER. A long time ago, I was a Rifleman in a Marine Infantry Battelion (1st Battalion, 7th Marines). While it is true that we were all Marines - every single one of us - some of us were just, shall we say - spatially challanged. They couldn't read a map. But they knew to stay with the rest of the fire-team/squad/platoon/company/battalion/etc. They may not lead the way, but damn if they weren't the best fighting men on this little blue rock.
Uhh... nice war story I guess? Anyway, what I mean is that telling people not to use a convenience feature if they don't like it doesn't translate well in a multiplayer game. That's quite simple.
Oh yeah, in reference to my concern for VR as a company, let me just say that it may very well be the sinbgle best title ever released, BUT! The game only lasts as long as the company. I want them to succeed on levels we could only imagine. I want them to have shiney new cars and big houses. I want them happy and proud. The company's success IS the games success.
Spluffen said:Nephretiti said:When you indicate that I am hamstringing myself in this particulare scenario I need more information. Am I hamstringing myself by NOT choosing to use the maps or am I hamstringing myself by using the maps and not putting forth the effort to actually learn the zones? There are many excuses for the selections here. Some folks should not ever use a map. EVER. A long time ago, I was a Rifleman in a Marine Infantry Battelion (1st Battalion, 7th Marines). While it is true that we were all Marines - every single one of us - some of us were just, shall we say - spatially challanged. They couldn't read a map. But they knew to stay with the rest of the fire-team/squad/platoon/company/battalion/etc. They may not lead the way, but damn if they weren't the best fighting men on this little blue rock.
Uhh... nice war story I guess? Anyway, what I mean is that telling people not to use a convenience feature if they don't like it doesn't translate well in a multiplayer game. That's quite simple.
I have always found gaming maps usefull, for a couple of hours. But eventually you learn the zones. You never open the map again. Playing in Toxx forest at night at the onset of the game as a Erudite I can say that I knew exactly where I was with no map by simply looking at the tree next to me. I learned the zone THAT well. Some people can do that. But a lot of people cannot. I would rather have the tools there for people that need it. I want a much higher player base even if they have to use a map. I also want special UI created for folks that have a real-world disadvantage for one reason or another, even if they seem to be the only person with that disadvantage. That doesnt mean we must all use that UI. It means that it is there for those that need it. Just like maps.
Nephretiti said:I have always found gaming maps usefull, for a couple of hours. But eventually you learn the zones. You never open the map again. Playing in Toxx forest at night at the onset of the game as a Erudite I can say that I knew exactly where I was with no map by simply looking at the tree next to me. I learned the zone THAT well. Some people can do that. But a lot of people cannot. I would rather have the tools there for people that need it. I want a much higher player base even if they have to use a map. I also want special UI created for folks that have a real-world disadvantage for one reason or another, even if they seem to be the only person with that disadvantage. That doesnt mean we must all use that UI. It means that it is there for those that need it. Just like maps.
Nah I agree with you, I want there to be maps too (without a GPS indicator please). I'm just saying the argument that one should just not use it if one doesn't like it is inherently flawed in a multiplayer setting. That's a tangent and actually not even directed to combat you in particular, I just keep seeing it a lot (here and on other game forums) and I feel its a dangerous attitude for game developers to have (should they have it).
I'm not against helping people who have disadvantages (I do myself enjoy such help from others). There is, however, a point where realistically, depending on what you're trying to create, you risk compromising your vision in the name of accessibility. My christmas tree is green and has red balls even though my father is colour blind, I guess I should have a blue tree with orange balls? In a video game you can add colour blind mode as a setting and it will help those who have that disadvantage without changing the experience for anyone who chooses not to use it. Being very busy can be a huge disadvantage when playing an MMO, I don't think that means we should offer an optional max level boost setting, for example.
Thanks for the feedback! Having no maps actually solves all the issues I was contemplating Haha..... Just grab some paper and do the **** yourself. Who would have thought!! My only other thought was that if some one adventured and spent time making an awesome in game map they would be rewarded (i.e. through an npc copy fee they would get a piece of). Guess i didn't mention that. Seems like it would be a cool aspect where people would be known for there maps but there is give and take with all opinions.
Viper said:My only other thought was that if some one adventured and spent time making an awesome in game map they would be rewarded (i.e. through an npc copy fee they would get a piece of).
Tbh quite genious if implemented right.
Nephretiti said:I would suggest in-game maps (however it may be done) with an option to simply turn maps off based on the end-user's preference. This way everyone gets what they want.
I seek challenge by overcoming the obstacles set in place by the devs, not by intentionally crippling myself. As someone else mentioned, that doesn't work well in a cooperative multiplayer game.
Spluffen said:Porygon said:Doesn't matter, we will have full blown maps created on 3rd party websites before the game launches lol.
Absolutely. Would be really nice not having to tab/keep it on other screen, though. Hopefully addons will allow for it.
That's my point. I really dont care either way. I will have maps. I just feel like at this point in "the game" some sort of map is commonplace. All you do by not having one is hamstring people that dont use 2 monitors. Every other serious person will have a map pulled up on another screen.
Spluffen said:Anyway, those maps aren't necessarily applicable to a game that doesn't have grid movement but I think there's a good point to the whole idea of in-game maps. I can only speak for my own habits of course but games with automapping take out the consideration of geography completely while games with no maps (or just dumapic lol) just make me google maps. The cartopgrahy thing in Etrian Odyssey makes the maps themselves part of gameplay and as such they make me care about the geography and figuring the land out. I don't know, of course, but I think a lot of people would have similar habits to me when it comes to this.
This is how I see it, though ultimately I guess I'm fine with VR's decision. It just seems a little pointless, since people will just google up the map for x zone anyway. And it'll be a challenge for folk with only one monitor. May as well have an in-game map to save folk the trouble of alt-tabbing.
Iksar said:Last I heard maps were back on the table/planned in some way, unless I am remembering the last Q&A interview incorrectly.
That so? Interesting... Would like to see some sort of source.
I think a lack of minimap makes sense and would be a-okay with me. But the lack of an in-game zone map is what I find a bit just... why?