There is a TLDR. I've lurked quite a bit now and found that one of my favourite features - progeny - seems to be rather controversial. Instead of arguing my preferred stance on this I will argue for this compromise which I believe many more will find acceptable.
First off, I'd like to list some pros and cons of a progeny system where you sacrifice a max level character for some bonus, then I will introduce my idea and connect it to those pros and cons.
Pros
- Prevent overpopulation of top level zones
- Keep lower level zones populated
- Provide a better playing experience for new players years down the road since they have someone to play with
- A different dimension of character improvement
- Hopefully keeping up both demand and supply of lower level crafting produce
Cons
- Loss of character too punitive, rewards must match this sacrifice implying:
- A system with great rewards willl likely be mandatory for top raiders
- The emotional damage connected with losing a character
The alternative
Instead of losing a character you can revert your character to the state they were, with the gear they wore at the end of any level., lets say level 14. You are free to revert to max level again and this will restore your max level gear but remove the new gear you got for the level 14 version of yourself. If you go back to level 14 again, the new level 14 gear will be restored. This may be the same state that you enter when you mentor someone. At each level you may get a set amount of "Progeny" Alternate Advancement Points (PAAP). These may be spent in an AA tree or be used to upgrade certain abilities etc. If you reach the cap for a level but continue playing with at least another player you will get Mentor Alternate Advancement points to spend in a tree with rewards that do not impact combat. Maybe special titles or something.
Relating to the pros and cons
This turns the feature into a regular AA system with the caveat of pushing you to play in other zones than the max level zones and hopefully with new people that may benefit from your experience. It provides an oft-requested dimension of character improvement and is extendable at very precise intervals, the devs can encourage players to go play more in lvl 20 zones by increasing the cap further for lvl 20 PAAP. There will be higher demand for lower level crafted stuff since the level 18 gear you had when you leveled up to level 19 likely isn't BiS for level 18. Still it won't be an insurmountable plat sink since you at least have the original gear you had at level 19.
The punitive aspects are pretty much done away with, you no longer lose a character. The system will still likely be mandatory for raiders and completionists.
TL;DR;
Allow to delevel temporarily restoring the char at a specific level. Gain AA's by gaining XP at that level until the levels predefined cap of AA's. You can restore your original character.
If gear gets to the point where your stats can get capped out regardless of progeny system or not, then I don't care if there is a progeny system or not, but if the only way to cap certain stats or gain certain passives that greatly benifit you is only done by progeny, then I will feel forced to do that. But if it's an AA type of system where you can basically switch back and forth until your progeny self reaches max lvl, then I will be fine with that.
I think you may have some facts misconstrued. Progeny creates a new character with probable retirement of main character. Mentoring temporarily delevels so you may play with those of lower level, or explore lower level content. What you are describing as an alternative to either of these is a "shroud" ala EQ1.
kreed99 said:I think you may have some facts misconstrued. Progeny creates a new character with probable retirement of main character. Mentoring temporarily delevels so you may play with those of lower level, or explore lower level content. What you are describing as an alternative to either of these is a "shroud" ala EQ1.
The idea is to not create a new character nor allow class change on deleveling. So basically a separate system meant to replace progeny in order to fulfill some of the pros the devs and me like about the progeny system. But this new system isn't progeny. I called them "Progeny" AA's because I'm too lazy to make up a new word.
I think progeny is brilliant tbh. If implemented it can provide a similar sollution to end-game progress that AAs can as well as also repopulating low-level content. Casual players don't have to bother with it if they don't want to while it will be a needed challenge to bite into for hardcore players. Afaik they had a similar thing in Ragnarok Online (if anyone remembers that) and it was quite popular.
May as well call it "shroud" cause that is what is being described. I understand the point. Just not really something to worry about as it would be a completely new and seperate system. We don't even have all the facts on Progeny yet so why look for a replacement for it before we even have the original version?
Not meant to be rude or adversarial. Just confused is all.
kreed99 said:May as well call it "shroud" cause that is what is being described. I understand the point. Just not really something to worry about as it would be a completely new and seperate system. We don't even have all the facts on Progeny yet so why look for a replacement for it before we even have the original version?
Not meant to be rude or adversarial. Just confused is all.
I did not know how shroud worked, but when I google it seems you turn into some other kind of character like a fire elemental?
I do it because I enjoy discussing them :) For me the pros of the progeny system is most important, I do like the original concept but I've seen so many posts asking VR to not implement it. To me this could be a backup plan if regular progeny is not well received during testing.
You don't seem rude or adversarial :)
Iksar said:A bit early to be offering compromises to a system we know nothing about. I'd rather not end up with yet another trite AA system.
Exactly, which is why I have asked for no more conversation to be had about this system until we provide an update as it is impossible to have a civil conversation with so many differing opinions and understanding of the system and with little to no info of if we will use it and how we will implement it.
I will have to close this but please feel free to use the search option to find older threads and read my official replies to them.