Final Fantasy XI Nasomi - hardcore 2005 private server with a rather big community.
wildenightwolf said:I just read the news, so sorry Naunet. Maybe find some single-player games that will ease the fantasy itch for a bit? Or there is always Fallout 76 that is coming in November. That might help the MMO withdrawal for a while.
Thanks. I've been pondering replaying Inquisition, though I'm not much of a single-player gamer. For now I'm trying to enjoy WildStar as much as possible and taking as many screenshots as my computer can handle. xD I'm gonna really miss my characters...
[edit] Thinking of attempting some Pantheon-related sketches... *ponderponder*
Aradune said:Lastly, always looking for feedback from the community in terms of how we can both make combat better *and* make watching combat more intriguing. Definitely looking for ideas, guidelines, strategies, etc. from the community, listening to you all who are looking from the outside in and not just what people actually experience before they play the game themselves.
thanks in advance!
-Brad
I can give a feedback which is , of course , personnal and therefore this opinion will be shared only by a fraction of future potential players .
1) Sofar what I have seen is extremely combat centric . I understand that combat mechanics are the hardest part with class, race and NPC balancing so that the development focus is probably on that part . However I belong to people whose primary motivation to play an MMORPG is NOT combat . Just imagine that someone would make a stream from EQ during beta uniquely focused on combat - it would be boring to death ! Target a mob and click autoattack . Pullers pull . CC cast buffs and mezzes . Healers heal . I wouldn't watch that for more than 5 - 10 minutes .
2) In 2018 every MMO player knows what is a tank, a healer and a DPS . The originality of Pantheon is that combats last a relatively long time and CC is necessary . Therefore I would stress the team work and the CC in the streams because this part is likely what a new player will be unfamiliar with . Because of this necessity to manage aggro , mana and CC it is absolutely necessary to accompany every combat stream with comments . This can be spoken or , better , written (f.ex "The enchanter mezzes the mobs that are not the main target ." "The puller FD because the number of mobs is too large ." etc) . Another advantage of written comments is that non english speaking people always understand better written comments rather than spoken comments . A combat centric stream which is too long and without comments is likely to be boring , ununderstable or both .
3) Now it is necessary to objectivate a little my feedback . Academic studies have shown that the primary motivations of every MMORPG player belong to 3 categories and these are very similar in every game . It is Achievement , Socialisation and Immersion . The population is broadly distributed (the numbers may vary a bit from one MMORPG to another) :
Achievement 34 % (Character progress 19.2 % , Competition 5.2 % , Analyse/Min-Maxing 5.1 % , Character power 4.5 %)
Immersion 37 % (World and lore 14.6 % , Exploration 12.7 % , Character Customisation 5.7 % , RP 4 %)
Socialization 29 % (Socialize 10.2 % , Team building 9.1 % , Making friends 7 % , Escape RL 2.7 %)
Of course no player is "mono-motivated" , generally we have all more or less a mixture of motivations . For instance I would say that I am motivated 60 % by immersion , 20 % by socialization and 20 % by Achievement . So now that the streams have been mainly speaking to the 34 % of players motivated by Achievement/Combat , it is necessary to also consider the vast majority of 66 % of those who are not mainly motivated by that .
4) Something for people mainly motivated by Immersion who are the largest part of MMORPG players . The streams should show the World and its lore . How one travels and what architectural and natural marvels can be seen and visited . Languages and races . Continents, oceans and Capital/starting cities . Geography, history and climate . A special note for character customisation - there is a non negligible part of players who see it as very important . Especially there is a gender bias - more women than men have this aspect as primary motivation and as the proportion of women playing MMORPG strongly increased during these last 20 years , a stream should also show how the characters (and clothing) can be customized .
5) Socialization . There is also a significant gender bias as more women than men declare this being their main motivation . Here it is certainly difficult to communicate that Pantheon is supposed to be a game where socialization is important . In any case I have not seen any stream or trailer of another MMORPG which would communicate about socialization in their game . Surely because there is little to none :) Unfortunately I have no immediate idea how this could be done for Pantheon either . Yet it is necessary because it is a fundamental part of Pantheon's tenets and it will talk to a small third of potential players what is not negligible at all .
Mobius said:Final Fantasy XI Nasomi - hardcore 2005 private server with a rather big community.
Was playing this a lot for a month and it's absolutely classic FFXI which I'm sure many old EQ players should try out if they never got the chance (lots of good stuff in FFXI that elevate the genre). Unfortunately the community is a bit to... insular for my taste. Feels like everyone has been playing forever at this point... Most people I ran into just knew the game like the back of their hand and there never seemed to be any kind of moment of improvision or acceptance of anything that wasn't optimized. Multiboxing is just insane too. So much PL'ing going on everywhere. I had a low level group going and we have 3 PL'ers... like... why?
The game is also a snap shot of what I feel is like one of the most unbalanced moments in ths game. Lots of clear winners in all major roles. Again, most people don't accept the anything but the best builds.
BRAD!
Get us Some over priced swag to buy!!
I will pay you $35 for a Pantheonmmo T shirt that will cost you $3 (bulk price).
I will even pay for shipping!
It don't have to be over done. Simply put Pantheon: RotF on the front and back like a Blizzard shirt!
free advertising and More Pantheon funds!
Aradune said:Lastly, always looking for feedback from the community in terms of how we can both make combat better *and* make watching combat more intriguing. Definitely looking for ideas, guidelines, strategies, etc. from the community, listening to you all who are looking from the outside in and not just what people actually experience before they play the game themselves.
thanks in advance!
-Brad
I'll just preface my following statement with - I am an absolute animation and VFX junkie. I've been known to play games solely for those two things (to enjoy but also to study in detail).
I realize that what I'm going to write would likely come in a polish pass later, were it to ever come. I'd like to see serious weight and impact in the fights, accentuated by some really chunky, throaty sound. I know the frantic combat and animations/over the top VFX of Black Desert don't appeal to a lot of people, but if you put aside the dressings and focus on the technical skill present there, you can see some really gorgeously animated characters, attack motions, visual effects and hear some great accompanying sounds. For example, if we had an Orc weilding a large two-handed weapon, it'd be awesome to see him wind up with his whole body and sink that weapon into the dirt, cutting right through you, with some light impact waves radiating out on the ground and a bit of dust or debris. Maybe it stays lodged there for a moment while he recovers and gets ready for his next swing. Orcs are savage and built for power, and I imagine they'd attack quite recklessly and would often leave themselves open for attack (indicated by appearing defenseless after a big swing). Perhaps this is a bit much for a regular attack swing - so maybe a special attack with a cast-bar indicator, that could stagger the players hit by it back and make them take a knee, interrupting/resetting whatever attack action they hve running at that time.
Not to say I don't enjoy watching the fights - my nostalgia allows me to do that. Viewed from the eye of a skeptic however, combat looks a bit too static/flat compared to what other games offer at the moment. One thing in particular is that it takes place almost entirely on the flat and doesn't utilize the Y-axis at all. No leaping (like a RAWR smash kind of attack) or effects/abilities that cause a significant amount of motion in the vertical. WoW's combat takes place mostly in this way too, but you do see some movement in the Y with abilities. BDO has a significant amount of it with things like uppercuts, grapple/slams, leaps, et cetera. While these specific things may not be fitting for Pantheon, I think it's worth considering that having combat utilize all axis at least to some degree could help it feel a bit more dynamic.
Aradune said:Please give us great feedback in terms of ideas and presentation as well, especially since most people are watching streams, movies, screenshots and not actually playing and that massive amounts of testers won't happen until alpha and especially beta. Between now and then we have to make an effort together to properly and in a compelling manner insure that Pantheon doesn't just look great but plays great, that Pantheon isn't just a lot of fun as a core MMO, but that we've a ton of ideas on how to take things to a new level, build new concepts and tactics on top of a proven foundation, and then showcase all of this convincingly to a person who is new to the game, or who may have some concerns with the combat style we've chosen, etc.
thanks in advance!
-Brad
It has been fun and interesting to watch a mixture of developers and guests with next-to-none in-game experience dying all over the place, but it does leave an impresssion of some of the encounters being next to impossible to win. With corpse runs active, some of those videos could have deterred many potential fans. I would like to see a group of expert alpha-players defeat those bosses while explaining how they work together to achieve it. Challenges are great, but more so when they are overcome. Also, it might be an idea to produce some edited, more instructive videos.
Having said that, it is when you give me an impression of the beauty and vastness of Terminus that I cannot wait to get into the game. This is, of course, a delicate balance, because I don't want to know everything before I finally get in.
Jabir said:It has been fun and interesting to watch a mixture of developers and guests with next-to-none in-game experience dying all over the place, but it does leave an impresssion of some of the encounters being next to impossible to win.
This is partially a mistake by any development team if it continues.
When your testing crews are too few and too inexperienced your game will suffer. Tuning your encounters to less than competent volunteers makes for bad design.
You always want to start with anything being too hard, and then dial it down. Not the other way around.
When the true serious players take on the content and mow through it, all that dev time tuning for average players will be a waste.
With that being said. I would expect most of what is happening is very rough adjustements. The real tuning will most likely occur in beta with much a larger player base.
One thing Vanguard devs did right with progession content, at least for raid encounters was to involve the most elite raiding guild to test with.
This helped keep the challenge for all players honed to the highest level.
Unfortunately they then broke it all by introducing grind2win with KDQ. alas.
--
It unfortunately had side effects for the players as the devs would see how each class performed at it's maximum output, and in some cases lef to nerfs on some classes. That left a bad taste in the testers mouths.
Jabir said:It has been fun and interesting to watch a mixture of developers and guests with next-to-none in-game experience dying all over the place, but it does leave an impresssion of some of the encounters being next to impossible to win. With corpse runs active, some of those videos could have deterred many potential fans. I would like to see a group of expert alpha-players defeat those bosses while explaining how they work together to achieve it. Challenges are great, but more so when they are overcome. Also, it might be an idea to produce some edited, more instructive videos.
Having said that, it is when you give me an impression of the beauty and vastness of Terminus that I cannot wait to get into the game. This is, of course, a delicate balance, because I don't want to know everything before I finally get in.
True, it would be nice to see some expert gameplay but currently that does not exist to show off. It's still pre-alpha so mobs + player classes are far from having their dials tuned in or in some cases working at all, not to mention bugs/line of sight issues/aggro through walls/pathing errors etc.
In time we will surely have expert runs shown off but I wouldn't imagine that until late alpha at the soonest but more likely in beta testing. I think it is far too early for most anyone to truly be turned off to the game, those that pass on it now will likely look into it again near release to see where it is then.
Naunet said:Pantheon-wise, I'm just doing what I can do - browse forums, read news releases, watch videos, etc. Awaiting actual alpha release.
Right now, however, I am feeling a deep sense of loss and homelessness. My primary game just released news of a shut down, and I'm not really sure what I'm going to do with myself (video game-wise). There isn't a single MMO out there that satisfies in the way WildStar does (be it in style, music, environment, raiding, housing, costuming, general combat, or whatever else). Currently taking lots of screenshots and preparing myself for the end. :(
Bummer. I would be sad, too, if that happened to me.
But, big shift, are you into table-top gaming at all? Or interested in trying? You may be surprised at how much fun it is, and there are a number of good RPG and fantasy type board games on the market now, and a steady stream of new ones all the time. Competitive as well as co-op is available.
I'm a Pantheon pledger, and will definitely be playing when it comes out, but there's no way I'm giving up my board game days :)
Searril said:But, big shift, are you into table-top gaming at all? Or interested in trying? You may be surprised at how much fun it is, and there are a number of good RPG and fantasy type board games on the market now, and a steady stream of new ones all the time. Competitive as well as co-op is available.I'm a Pantheon pledger, and will definitely be playing when it comes out, but there's no way I'm giving up my board game days :)
It's not something I have a lot of experience in, but I've been interested in giving it a try. A friend is going to teach my husband how to DM so he can try running some D&D campaigns. He's a writer, so he's got a lot of ideas, but neither of us know much of anything about the mechanics of tabletop RPGs. xD So yes! Hopefully we'll be dipping our toes into tabletop stuff soon!
Right now I've got my hands full trying to document, record, and/or back up as much WildStar stuff as possible haha. Currently working on recording the audio for all of the datacubes (little lore things recorded by a long-lost race) in the game.
Naunet said:Searril said:But, big shift, are you into table-top gaming at all? Or interested in trying? You may be surprised at how much fun it is, and there are a number of good RPG and fantasy type board games on the market now, and a steady stream of new ones all the time. Competitive as well as co-op is available.I'm a Pantheon pledger, and will definitely be playing when it comes out, but there's no way I'm giving up my board game days :)
It's not something I have a lot of experience in, but I've been interested in giving it a try. A friend is going to teach my husband how to DM so he can try running some D&D campaigns. He's a writer, so he's got a lot of ideas, but neither of us know much of anything about the mechanics of tabletop RPGs. xD So yes! Hopefully we'll be dipping our toes into tabletop stuff soon!
Right now I've got my hands full trying to document, record, and/or back up as much WildStar stuff as possible haha. Currently working on recording the audio for all of the datacubes (little lore things recorded by a long-lost race) in the game.
DnD is definitely one aspect, although that's not what I was specifically thinking of. I was thinking more along the lines of actual board games. There are even a number of good dungeon-crawler type games that come with modular game boards -- the game is made up of many pieces that can fit together in different ways, so each time you play you get a different board to play on.
Let me know if you all find a type or genre that you like and are looking for more. Or there are also several good board gaming groups on facebook I can point you at that you can join and get loads of information on various games.
Nephele said:I'd say help spread the word about Pantheon. Alpha isn't that far away, and Beta will be right behind it. If you're watching streams and thinking "wow, I wish I could play now", think about all the people who haven't even seen that stream footage.
I'd add to this thought: Increase your subscription level if possible. Money is always needed and every penny counts.
Aradune said:Lastly, always looking for feedback from the community in terms of how we can both make combat better *and* make watching combat more intriguing. Definitely looking for ideas, guidelines, strategies, etc. from the community, listening to you all who are looking from the outside in and not just what people actually experience before they play the game themselves.
Anyway, good stuff, and PA4 has already started development and what I talk about above is a huge priority. Please give us great feedback in terms of ideas and presentation as well, especially since most people are watching streams, movies, screenshots and not actually playing and that massive amounts of testers won't happen until alpha and especially beta. Between now and then we have to make an effort together to properly and in a compelling manner insure that Pantheon doesn't just look great but plays great, that Pantheon isn't just a lot of fun as a core MMO, but that we've a ton of ideas on how to take things to a new level, build new concepts and tactics on top of a proven foundation, and then showcase all of this convincingly to a person who is new to the game, or who may have some concerns with the combat style we've chosen, etc.
thanks in advance!
-Brad
It's been mentioned a few times that we might see some sort of sacrificial altar system in Pantheon and this is an attempt to theorycraft some of the possibilities of what that could look like. First and foremost, I'd like to share a basic set of rules and terminology and then follow that up with an example that ties the different elements together. (Please note that all values are placeholder.)
Deity: Each race would have their own unique Pantheon that consists of 5 separate deities. Players can pay homage to their deities by sacrificing items to their corresponding altar and depending on the quality of that sacrifice, they would earn favor.
Altar: Altars would be a very rare drop from the world loot table. Each deity would have their own unique altar. Altars can be traded to other players. At any given point in time, players can be attuned to a single altar that is aligned with their race. Once attuned, players can then sacrifice gear to their altar which would generate an expendable resource known as favor. Players would be able to reattune to a new altar whenever they like but they would lose any existing favor in the process. Altars can also be sacrificed to earn additional favor, and would probably fall somewhere in the T4-T6 range of the table below the next paragraph. It might also be possible to allow players to improve their altars through crafting modifications which could open up plenty of other variables to consider.
Favor: This would be the expendable resource that players would accumulate by sacrificing gear to an attuned altar. Favor would cap at 1,000 and the value of each sacrifice would scale based on the quality/rarity of the item. This scaling variable would ideally be implemented in a way that makes sense from a risk vs reward perspective (specifically in a way that would encourage higher level players to focus on level-appropriate content) and it's quite possible that the development team would need to manually assign a hidden value to each item that qualifies. It's possible that some deities prefer certain items over others (Ogre deities love it when you sacrifice a Halfling altar while Halfling deities have a natural preference for anything shiny) and that a variety of not-yet-discussed factors could come into play. This would probably be tough to balance as it's inevitable that players would attempt to formulate a path of least resistance. At the end of the day, though, that path of least resistance would ultimately create a baseline value for each level tier that would organically develop over time. These are some rough numbers so please don't put too much emphasis on them as it's impossible to analyze any meaningful sense of risk vs reward (and it's progression between tiers) at this stage of the game:
Tier 1 (Level 1-9): Value = 1.
Tier 2 (Level 10-19): Value = 3.
Tier 3 (Level 20-29): Value = 7.
Tier 4 (Level 30-39): Value = 15.
Tier 5 (Level 40-49): Value = 25.
Tier 6 (Level 50-59): Value = 35.
I think this would stimulate the economy because at any given point in time, an item in the 1-9 range would be worth at least X amount due to the favor that it can be sacrificed for. The value of X will fluctuate based on the supply and demand of items in that tier and how it compares to the value (and it's associated supply vs demand implications) of items from other tiers. With this model, players would attempt to accumulate the most amount of favor for the lowest possible cost (through trade or time spent farming) and due to localized markets and fluctuating tier values, I think this would go a long way toward realizing a player driven economy that would be both engaging and rewarding to opportunistic tradesmen and hunters. Diminishing returns could be utilized if necessary (to prevent over-saturation of any given tier), and there would definitely need to be some strict rules on what would qualify as an item that can be sacrificed. Items that can be crafted or purchased from a merchant most likely shouldn't qualify. I'm not sure how often we'll see the no-rent variable on items but it's possible that they wouldn't qualify either, or maybe they would be a great option for players who want to squeeze a little extra efficiency into their conquest for favor.
Ogre Pantheon
Deity 1)
24 Hour Passive / Blessing -- (Costs 25 Favor): Become immune to stun effects that are applied from any frontal quadrant. Does not persist through death.
Active 1 / Bestowal -- (Costs 50 Favor, 15 Minute Cooldown): Gain 5 stamina, strength, and constitution. Lasts for 15 minutes and does not persist through death.
Active 2 / Token -- (Costs 100 Favor, 30 Minute Cooldown): Summon a no-rent amulet that takes up a slot in your inventory and is classified as a Lore (can only possess one at a time) item. This item can be consumed (crushed) to remove all status impairing effects from your character, and can be used while under those same effects. (Removes slow, snare, sleep, mezz, charm, stun, paralyze, confusion, blind, heavy, etc. Item disappears if player reattunes to a new altar.)
Active 3 / Miracle -- (Costs 250 Favor, 60 Minute Cooldown): Gain 10% damage reduction. Lasts for 20 seconds and does not persist through death.
Progeny Bonus / Tribute -- (Costs 1,000 Favor): Grants permanent immunity to stun effects that are applied from any frontal quadrant. (This only goes into effect once the character is re-rolled as a Progeny. Only one Progeny Bonus can be transferred per re-roll but the effects do stack.)
Deity 2)
24 Hour Passive / Blessing -- (Costs 25 Favor): Gain 3 stamina, strength, and constitution. Does not persist through death.
Active 1 / Bestowal -- (Costs 50 Favor, 15 Minute Cooldown): Increases healing given / received from all sources by 5%. Lasts for 15 minutes and does not persist through death.
Active 2 / Token -- (Costs 100 Favor, 30 Minute Cooldown): Summon a no-rent amulet that takes up a slot in your inventory and is classified as a Lore (can only possess one at a time) item. This item can be consumed (crushed) to grant a temporary ward against physical (Pierce/Slash/Crush) damage equal to 25% of your max HP. (Item disappears if player reattunes to a new altar.)
Active 3 / Miracle -- (Costs 250 Favor, 60 Minute Cooldown): Gain a 15% chance to proc a lifetap that will heal for 50% of the damage done. The healing is reduced to 20% for any AoE ability/spell. (Abilities/Spells/Auto-Attacks can all trigger this effect.) Lasts for 60 seconds and does not persist through death.
Progeny Bonus / Tribute -- (Costs 1,000 Favor): Permanently gain 3 stamina, strength, and constitution. (This only goes into effect once the character is re-rolled as a Progeny. Only one Progeny Bonus can be transferred per re-roll but the effects do stack.)
Deity 3)
24 Hour Passive / Blessing -- (Costs 25 Favor): Increases healing given / received from all sources by 3%. Does not persist through death.
Active 1 / Bestowal -- (Costs 50 Favor, 15 Minute Cooldown): Increases physical resistance attributes (Pierce/Slash/Crush or Flat AC) by 5%. Lasts for 15 minutes and does not persist through death.
Active 2 / Token -- (Costs 100 Favor, 30 Minute Cooldown): Summon a no-rent amulet that takes up a slot in your inventory and is classified as a Lore (can only possess one at a time) item. This item can be consumed (crushed) to grant a temporary ward against magical (Arcane/Mental/Elemental) damage equal to 25% of your max HP. (Item disappears if player reattunes to a new altar.)
Active 3 / Miracle -- (Costs 250 Favor, 60 Minute Cooldown): Apply a death prevention buff to yourself that lasts for 7 seconds. If you take lethal damage during that window, you receive a ward that shields you for 40% of your maximum HP that decays by 10% per 1.5 seconds. The death prevention effect ends once the shield is triggered.
Progeny Bonus / Tribute -- (Costs 1,000 Favor): Permanently increase healing given / received from all sources by 3%. (This only goes into effect once the character is re-rolled as a Progeny. Only one Progeny Bonus can be transferred per re-roll but the effects do stack.)
Deity 4)
24 Hour Passive / Blessing -- (Costs 25 Favor): Regen 3% of missing health every 5 seconds while out of combat. (If you are at 50% health, you regen 3% of 50%. If you're at 10%, you regen 3% of 90%. If you're at 90%, you regen 3% of 10%.)
Active 1 / Bestowal -- (Costs 50 Favor, 15 Minute Cooldown): Increases character size by 30%, as well as all aggro-related effects (Taunts/De-Aggro) by 5%. Lasts for 15 minutes and does not persist through death.
Active 2 / Token -- (Costs 100 Favor, 30 Minute Cooldown): Summon a no-rent amulet that takes up a slot in your inventory and is classified as a Lore (can only possess one at a time) item. This item can be consumed (crushed) to apply a shockwave around your character that has a 50% chance to stun any enemy in range for 1.5 seconds. (Item disappears if player reattunes to a new altar.)
Active 3 / Miracle -- (Costs 250 Favor, 60 Minute Cooldown): Increases/Reduces the potency of the next 3 critical strikes for or against your character by 30%. (Your critical strikes/heals will have a 30% modifier. Critical strikes against you will be reduced by 30%.) There is no duration on this buff, and it does not persist through death.
Progeny Bonus / Tribute -- (Costs 1,000 Favor): Regain 3% of missing health every 5 seconds while out of combat. (This only goes into effect once the character is re-rolled as Progeny. Only one Progeny Bonus can be transferred per re-roll but the effects do stack.)
Deity 5) (WIP)
Based on what has been detailed so far I imagine it being really easy to say that something like this would break the game. The progeny bonuses could be viewed as something so powerful that they would feel "required" by some players. The temporary passive buffs or actives could be viewed as something so powerful that they would be impossible to balance into the game. Maybe all of that is true. In any event, I just wanted to share an idea that would make our racial choice feel a bit more meaningful. It was stated that VR isn't afraid to dabble with these sort of things and the angle I was shooting for here is to allow each racial choice to have their own distinctive palette of flavors, but one that also comes at a recurring cost and sense of commitment. Accumulating favor should require quite a bit of effort and I think each deity could portray an interesting sense of risk vs reward with how it's associated benefits can be leveraged. I understand that there are plenty of factors that haven't been accounted for in this post but rather than focusing the conversation on game-balance, I'm mostly curious to see whether or not players feel that some mutated version of the above could make sense for this game. (All aspects should be considered "fluid" if they need to be adjusted for any reason.) To summarize my thoughts on what this type of system could offer:
1) Would make combat more interesting by adding another "active" dynamic
2) Would really bring the word "Pantheon" into the world of Terminus
3) Meaningful Racial Contrast
4) Item Sink
5) Would help reduce inflation by removing items from the game that would otherwise be sold to merchants
6) Economic stimulus package for all tiers of content
7) Plays off of the progeny angle that you mentioned in this thread: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/3949/progeny-tweak
8) High risk vs reward considerations
9) Could improve replay value by creating a tangible/desirable resource that can be acquired by participating in the vast majority of PVE content
I think meaningful interaction with NPC's enhances the RPG in MMORPG, particularly if VR is interested in dynamic events occuring from people's choices. It makes things less linear and if there's consequences adds to suspense and excitement. Rub up some npc holding a hostage the wrong way goes and kills hostage and their family blames you and you gain some form of infamy. Poisoned the Ratkin fruitbowl and the eat it and die and some other NPC race comes in and takes advantage and controls the area. It really plays into interesting AI behaviour. Having choices within NPC interaction is much more interesting than clicking 'next' continually till the text is gone.