Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Question from an Observer

    • 844 posts
    September 6, 2018 9:44 AM PDT

    Flapp said:

    TLogan said: As I said and I speak for all druids / shamans here... If a cleric is simply a better healer, than pantheon has failed us.

    why don't you wait and see how to game turns out before you doom  it to failure. 

    if this game is Eq like. Cleric, druid and shaman will be able to heal groups. 

    Each class has pros and cons. Clerics were better healers, but couldn't Evac or slow. etc. it all balances out in the end. it's really not that hard to understand.

    Well old school EQ?. As a high level Paladin, I could manage to keep a group somewhat healthy as well.

    • 49 posts
    September 6, 2018 10:43 AM PDT
    This is quite the healer debate. Unfortunately I never played EQ, but was a big fan of Vanguard. In Vanguard they had 4 healer classes that, if played well, could heal a group, but in much different ways. I think Vanguard is a good example of having several capable unique healers through a combination of heal mechanics and buffs (short and long term).

    Cleric - Best single target direct healer, good group heals, good buffs, some off tank capability. limited DPS, limited energy regen...

    Shamman - Best group direct healer, good single target heals, good buffs, good energy regen, some DPS capability, some off tank capability...

    Disciple - Best non-energy healer, Good DPS, Good group healing - powerful short term damage based healing buffs, some direct energy based heals with short cast time, limited buffs...

    Blood Mage (very unique take on a healing class) - Best spike damage healer through damage distribution, Good DPS, Very good buffs, Some direct energy healing...

    Clerics and Shamman were thought to be the best all around / all situation healers many because they were easy to play. The Disciple and Blood Mage took more skill, but were very capable healers and a must in certain situations.

    Vanguard healing balance was not perfect, but they creat 4 fun to play capable healing classes.

    • 697 posts
    September 6, 2018 12:54 PM PDT

    Zyellinia said:

    If they make the healing potential more or less equivalent (as TLogan wants) then they also need to make the non-healing kits more or less equivalent so are you prepared to give up your shiny extras like ports to be an equivalent healer?  After all, why take a cleric if a druid heals just as well, does a little DPS and can port you all over?  It works both ways...

    So are you saying clerics can't have shiny extras. Fine you can take the ports out but you guys get no rezes then...seem fair. As far as I know with the reveal I see no rez like ability with druids. Your arguement is quite shallow.

    • 394 posts
    September 6, 2018 4:19 PM PDT

    TLogan 

    geez dude simmer the F*** down. 

    not going to argue about it. judge heals AFTER release. til then it's just you mouthing off... 

    • 78 posts
    September 6, 2018 4:52 PM PDT
    Lol bro I'm not getting upset, I'm making it clear that it's not acceptable for one healer class to simply be a better healer just because on past games clerics were most sought after... You don't understand the problem this created trying to find a group as a druid in eq, it's not acceptable. I'm guessing everyone on here must be rolling cleric or something.
    • 97 posts
    September 6, 2018 5:13 PM PDT

    TLogan said: Lol bro I'm not getting upset, I'm making it clear that it's not acceptable for one healer class to simply be a better healer just because on past games clerics were most sought after... You don't understand the problem this created trying to find a group as a druid in eq, it's not acceptable. I'm guessing everyone on here must be rolling cleric or something.

    I would suggest introspection on some of your posts. The attitude and tone in your messages come off as petty and does not coincide with the community that I see around us on a daily basis. I love the Pantheon community and the respect that people have for each other. It's quite refreshing in the MMO world. So when I see a person dog another or use language that's disparaging, it's an attack on this community as a whole and we're all responsible for calling it out. 

    Please be respectful of other ideologies, even if you feverently disagree with them. 

     


    This post was edited by Avaen at September 6, 2018 5:15 PM PDT
    • 9115 posts
    September 6, 2018 5:30 PM PDT

    Thread cleaned up, double posts merged. Any more double posts will be deleted, please think about your reply and add it to one post or edit that post to add an afterthought, posting reply after reply is against forum guidelines.

    While I am posting, please also respect others and their opinions, if you do not agree - feel free to "agree to disagree" and leave it at that or leave the thread if it causes you that much irritation but do not continue to argue opinions please, it is not helpful to these development forums or my fragile moderator brain!

    • 105 posts
    September 6, 2018 8:11 PM PDT

    Watemper said:

    Zyellinia said:

    If they make the healing potential more or less equivalent (as TLogan wants) then they also need to make the non-healing kits more or less equivalent so are you prepared to give up your shiny extras like ports to be an equivalent healer?  After all, why take a cleric if a druid heals just as well, does a little DPS and can port you all over?  It works both ways...

    So are you saying clerics can't have shiny extras. Fine you can take the ports out but you guys get no rezes then...seem fair. As far as I know with the reveal I see no rez like ability with druids. Your arguement is quite shallow.

     

    No, I'm saying that if one class has shiny extras that are just flat better than another class performing the same role they shouldn't expect to be as good at the role.  Balance means if you're stronger in one area then you need to be weaker in others.  If a druid heals and rezzes as well as a cleric plus has ports what group is going to want to take a cleric?

    • VR Staff
    • 587 posts
    September 8, 2018 3:26 AM PDT

    Luethar said:

    I am not in the Pre-Alpha. I have been following Pantheon through the Twitch Streamer, CohhCarnage. I am a Watcher Pledgee and I am looking forward to this game!

     

    I do have a few questions. 

     

    1. Since this game has been compared to the old school EverQuest, I am wanting to know if there will be similar dynamic loot tables that were in EQ? I will use the Assassin Supplier Room in Lower Guk as an example. Three mobs in the room, two are place holders for "named" mobs. When those mobs spawn they only have a 10% chance to drop the rarest loot on their table, 25% cahnce to drop semi rare, and 65% chance to drop their common loot. Will this be similar in Pantheon?

    2. I have seen the dedicated classes featured on the streams and I love teh idea that only a Cleric can heal. My question is will there be a dedicated transport class like the Druid and Wizard in EQ?

    3. I have one sugestion for the game. Each game I have played, and I have played many, had the cleric have undead damage spells but never a damage shield against undead. I mean they are considered holy so doesnt it make sense that when a cleric gets hit by an undead that some damage be applied?

    Anyway, I am looking forward to this game and cannot wait for full realization of what has been so far a great game to witness in development!

    Thanks.

    Lue. 

    1. In general, absolutely.  

    2. Most likely, yes.  We are nearing the point at which we need to nail down travel, teleports, and other functionality that will help people find groups and stay in groups.

    3. Pretty sure we agree here as well.

    thanks!

    • 78 posts
    September 8, 2018 5:15 AM PDT
    Zyellinia,
    While I do respect everyone's opinions about it the main issue for me here is that more than likely the druids ability to solo effectively is being taken away in Pantheon, which is fine as I prefer to group anyway. Druids that played eq could just solo when they couldn't get a group (and most of us had to) because the group wanted a healer, that's the potential problem that I'm seeing here. Going to be tough sledding for us druids, and I love the class so much that I'm not wanting to switch, but I love the idea of Pantheon so much that I would if necessary.
    • 3852 posts
    September 8, 2018 6:30 AM PDT

    It seems reasonably likely that the druid will be a decent soloing class by the time everything is done - and will also be a decent group healing class. Plus the druid is likely to have travel abilities.

    Will it be the best healing class - I sure hope not. No class should be too good at too many things or other classes will not get played.

    Will it be the best soloing class - quite unlikely. Healing classes tend to kill too slowly.

    Good in a group, *major* travel functionality, able to solo. The class seems to be in a good position to me.

    Not least - more fun to play than a cleric for those that like a variety of different skills to use and do not value being the absolute best healer that highly.

    Vanguard had quite a few interesting and fun to play healing classes and I have faith that Pantheon will as well. But they all need to be quite different from each other or what is the point?


    This post was edited by dorotea at September 8, 2018 6:30 AM PDT
    • 646 posts
    September 8, 2018 9:03 AM PDT

    TLogan said: Zyellinia, While I do respect everyone's opinions about it the main issue for me here is that more than likely the druids ability to solo effectively is being taken away in Pantheon, which is fine as I prefer to group anyway. Druids that played eq could just solo when they couldn't get a group (and most of us had to) because the group wanted a healer, that's the potential problem that I'm seeing here. Going to be tough sledding for us druids, and I love the class so much that I'm not wanting to switch, but I love the idea of Pantheon so much that I would if necessary.

    1. Don't assume that druids in Pantheon are just copies of druids in EQ (same goes for any other class). They shouldn't be, at least. This isn't EQ.

    2. I would hope that VR will provide enough damaging abilities to all classes that they can be effective while soloing, even if it takes longer to kill things as a tank or healer class.

    • 844 posts
    September 8, 2018 9:49 AM PDT

    Naunet said:

    TLogan said: Zyellinia, While I do respect everyone's opinions about it the main issue for me here is that more than likely the druids ability to solo effectively is being taken away in Pantheon, which is fine as I prefer to group anyway. Druids that played eq could just solo when they couldn't get a group (and most of us had to) because the group wanted a healer, that's the potential problem that I'm seeing here. Going to be tough sledding for us druids, and I love the class so much that I'm not wanting to switch, but I love the idea of Pantheon so much that I would if necessary.

    1. Don't assume that druids in Pantheon are just copies of druids in EQ (same goes for any other class). They shouldn't be, at least. This isn't EQ.

    2. I would hope that VR will provide enough damaging abilities to all classes that they can be effective while soloing, even if it takes longer to kill things as a tank or healer class.

    I'm sure no one is expecting Pantheon to be cookie cutter copies of EQ1 (the golden years).

    But you can damn well take it to the bank they will be more like EQ/Vanguard than any other MMO.

    • 646 posts
    September 8, 2018 10:45 AM PDT

    All I'm saying is we should let VR design their OWN classes, instead of just assuming X class is going to/should play like X EQ class just because they share a name.