In a recent dev interview, the team revealed that they are planning to have banks NOT be global in Pantheon. (See Bazgirm's writeup for this and other information - specifically, this was mentioned as part of a response to a question about item stats.)
To explain that, what it theoretically means is that if you have stuff in a bank in Thronefast.... the only place you can access it, is at the bank in Thronefast. If you're in Faerthale, it's a completely different bank.
In almost every MMO, ever, including EQ/P99, we're used to banks and item storage being globally accessible. Meaning we can access our stuff from any banker NPC anywhere in the world. If that's not the case in Pantheon, what could it potentially mean for the way we play the game?
I do not recall what MMO had this in the past but I know this would not be the first time I have seen it. While most of what Pantheon is doing I love, some choices will bother me and this is likely one of them. But it is a small negative part in an overall positive direction. I also doubt there will be any meaningful change in how people play because of this.
I think local-only banks will add excellent depth to Pantheon. It's a positive step toward the vision. Visionary Realms is doing great! It's time for something new instead of what's already prevalent in the mmo market. Local banks are total awesomeness :)
I actually someone like the idea, as long as there is a menu I can open up at a bank that shows a lists of all my currency by city. Also, an option to transfer the currency to another bank for a small fee.
The main reason I like the idea is because it suggests, to me, that traveling from city to city is not going to be some simple quick task, otherwise that would defeat the purpose of local banks.
Yeah, I really like this idea.
What about the idea of being able to pay to have contents caravaned to another bank. So if one bank is starting to fill up, you can pay the bank to transfer some belongings to a different bank.
Just a random thought, and its 8:30am and I havent been to sleep yet, so it may not be a good one. I'm not sure anymore.
I think its a cool concept but may be along the lines of realism vs fun like they mentioned in regard to money having weight being a cool concept in EQ1 but didn't pan out how they planned and ultimately took away from the fun of the game (because people were literally deleting money to not be encumbered). If they do go forward with local banks I would hope that they are "local" based on city alliances and only add a "service fee" for using banks not "local" to you just like an actual bank. You get charged for using a bank other than your own and then that bank collects the funds from your bank as long as its the same currency. There should be a storage or security box system for items because you typically can't store severed heads and battle axes in a bank. The storage system could charge fees for capacity as well as fees for transferring your belongins to another city for you.
It certainly supports the "big world" that Pantheon is striving for. Quick access to your items from all banks around the world is a convenience.
I think for me it would not chance much though. In my travels, I will probably opt for a home base (could be my starting city, or the city/place that becomes the new hub), and store most of my items there. Tradeskill items usually take a huge part of my bank slots, but if there's only one tradeskill allowed in Pantheon (from what I know), then this may not be a problem.
Situational and acclimation gear may take more space. It might make sense to store these items close to where we would use them. For example, we're going to visit the dangerous frost dungeon. So we will need cold resist gear and acclimation stuff. Instead of carrying this around all the time, we could store it in the bank closest to the dungeon.
I assume that local banks also means there will be no global shared (between your characters) bank slots. This opens the door for delivery services - more chance for interaction between players (if they manage to implement a secure system for such deliveries). Of course there cannot be an email system then to mail items, because it would undermine such an item delivery system.
starblight said:I do not recall what MMO had this in the past but I know this would not be the first time I have seen it.
I might be getting old, but the only game I remember doing something like this that I have played is EVE Online. Though I wouldn't be surprised if there are some others that I just didn't play for whatever reason.
Keno Monster said:It seems like a half measure to me.
What makes you say this? "Half measure" implies that you think there's a design goal behind the decision (which is surely true) but that this alone doesn't achieve that design goal. Can you elaborate?
Pilch said:The main reason I like the idea is because it suggests, to me, that traveling from city to city is not going to be some simple quick task, otherwise that would defeat the purpose of local banks.
I agree, this makes me think as well that travel is not going to be quick and simple.
Other Neph thoghts:
When I think about what people use their bank for in most games, it's a few things:
1) Storing crafting materials
2) Storing stuff to sell
3) Storing stuff that they'll need at some point but not right now (items for quest turn-ins, situational gear, etc)
Also in most games, the amount of bank storage you get is usually 4-5x or more what you get in normal inventory space, and yet you still end up filling it up.
So, taking that into account, here's what I think some of the outcomes of this choice (on its own) may be:
1) Bind location is *really* going to matter, especially if you're a crafter. Once you set up shop and get established in an area, that choice is going to be very sticky because moving your home base to a different area would mean having to move most/all of the stuff in your bank as well, which will be time consuming if nothing else.
2) Players are going to carry more things on them than they would otherwise. Sure, some of us never think to run to the bank until our inventory is overflowing, but the reality is that when we do make that run to the bank, we tend to dump all the nonessentials to get space in our inventory back. The challenge now though will be that our bank might be a continent away. So we'll have to put some thought into what we actually stash in the bank, since it won't be so easy to go grab it and come back when we need it.
3) I can see the opportunity for an additional money sink via some kind of NPC service to transfer items from one bank to another. Meaning, I could pay to have items moved securely from the Thronefast bank to the Syronai's Rest bank. This would mitigate my first two points above but money sinks are generally a good thing for the game as well.
In addition to that, it opens up the following questions for me:
1) Given regional markets and regional banks, and the fact that crafting resources have been strongly hinted at to be regional as well, this feels like an opportunity for trading-oriented players to become traveling merchants. Buy up iron ore in a place where it's common and cheap, and then take it to a place where it's not so common and sell at a profit. There's other components that make that more or less likely to occur - how easy is travel overall, and do regional markets really happen or does everyone just end up piling into one big central market as a clearinghouse, but I like the idea that players facilitate the transfer of goods and make them available in different parts of the world.
2) How exactly will player outposts fit into all this, and what about shared guild storage? It doesn't make sense to me that a guild bank should be global if personal banks aren't, but that also means that the home base location for a guild will strongly matter as well. So if your guild is based out of Faerthale, and you're going to go do the raid zone over in Reignfall, that adds an extra step of preparation that you need to consider, potentially.
I'm sure ya'll will think of things that I haven't thought of as well. But I feel like this is a design choice that we really shouldn't just gloss over. The way we interact with banks is something that's sort of fundamental in many other games - we take it for granted. Since it will be different here, I think there's a lot of places where it will impact us as players, and some of those may be surprising.
Most of us have experienced the other side of this - global bank access.
I did hear recently - from a dev interview that money will not weigh anything? Anyone else see or hear this? I'll look for the source. It was a youtube video. I don't like the idea, but it's not my hill to die on.
If that's the case, then no one will store money in the bank- there will be no reason to.
I think about storing crafting components, rare items, long-term quest items, unique pieces of gear and of course, money. Assuming those items have weight and assuming inventory space will be limited, then we will lose access to all of our items all the time.
It could be inconvenient and realistic. That's the only gameplay effect I can think of at the moment.
I wouldn't mind local only banks. I want the game to seem like more of a world.
But if the currency isn't going to weigh anything, then I don't see the point.
Wyvernspur said:Most of us have experienced the other side of this - global bank access.
I did hear recently - from a dev interview that money will not weigh anything? Anyone else see or hear this? I'll look for the source. It was a youtube video. I don't like the idea, but it's not my hill to die on.
If that's the case, then no one will store money in the bank- there will be no reason to.
I think about storing crafting components, rare items, long-term quest items, unique pieces of gear and of course, money. Assuming those items have weight and assuming inventory space will be limited, then we will lose access to all of our items all the time.
It could be inconvenient and realistic. That's the only gameplay effect I can think of at the moment.
I wouldn't mind local only banks. I want the game to seem like more of a world.
But if the currency isn't going to weigh anything, then I don't see the point.
Hey Wyvernspur,
I think I misunderstood what the bank would originally be for. Yes, now it makes more sense that it would be items, and not currency, that are put into the bank.
Oops!
The biggest change will be that players will need to think about where they keep things. Instead of just dumping stuff into a global bank and never giving it another thought, planning your future needs will be something to consider. If you expect to spend quite a lot of time on one continent but your home city is on another, what should you move over to a more convenient bank? Is there one you can even access because of race/faction/diety complications?
Speaking of that last point, I fully expect that the 'evil' races will have a much harder time with this local bank situation than the 'good' races. I would hope that will be black market banks available that any race that happens to be KOS to the inhabitants of that city could reach.
Yea I like this idea. I would assume that you would have to plan where you wanted to keep stuff. So for banks, or bank close to where there is a huge local AH, or trading area, or w/e Pantheon decides in the end, that you will store the stuff you want to sell. Maybe there is an area that is more prominent in crafting. If they have a bank there you can store your crafting supplies there for convience when you want to travel to craft. W/e zones you are grinding in at the time you would try to find a bank you can use closer to those zones and have your extra gear set, and w/e else you will need for fighting.
Localized Banks, Localized Auction Houses, Localized Commodity Exchange Vendors (one of my own suggestions for crafting raw materials) and very long travel times will make each area really feel unique and separated. If supported by a full line of leveling zones you will be able to really have the feel of being “from” somewhere in the world.
Trasak said:Localized Banks, Localized Auction Houses, Localized Commodity Exchange Vendors (one of my own suggestions for crafting raw materials) and very long travel times will make each area really feel unique and separated. If supported by a full line of leveling zones you will be able to really have the feel of being “from” somewhere in the world.
Hey Trasak,
I really like that last line of your post, the feeling of being "from" somewhere in the world. That is what is missing in many MMO games today. If you are out and about in the world for two weeks and finally return to your home city for something, it really feels like you arrived home.
I expect there to be some restriction in travel to make local banks and local trading work, if the goal is to make the place where you store your goods matter, there's the need to put some restrictions on fast travel portals.
Mainly not allow for players that are overburdened to take a teleport ( if you could just load up your entire bank into one character and get teleported to another part of the world that would make local banks pretty irrelevant) there needs to be a maximum weight allowed for teleportation.
Beyond that I can see a caravan/ship services to move good seems to be a pretty good solution.
I could just say I agree with everything Trasak said - but I will add a bit more.
1. Many games have had banks restricted by faction when they released although they typically changed this a few years later. If one thinks of each race in Terminus as being a separate faction - which is how I tend to approach it - this is the same concept. It may be inconvenient but much of the depth of Pantheon can be viewed by many players as "inconvenient". I certainly have criticized some inconveniences as adding more tedium than depth but over my time on these forums I am coming to understand the old EQ perspective more and recognize the benefits to some of the decisions. Thus my reversal on the East Commons Tunnel thread and belated support for regional brokers over global brokers.
If a race is large enough to have several cities with banks perhaps one can make withdrawals from any branch - but with a delay in receiving items that were stored at a branch in a different city. This would be entirely consistant with my view of each "faction" having its own banking system.
2. More importantly, I do not think we can judge this decision without knowing how the mail system will work. Regional banks and regional brokers strongly imply regional mail as well but we do not yet *know* how the mail will work. Clearly having regional banks is meaningless if one can mail items from one character to another over any distance and with instant delivery. Which seems less and less likely to be the way they go with the mail.
3. Most importantly of all - what would a regional bank/broker/mail system mean to how we play the game. With a high level of probability VR's decisions are based more on this than on any feeling of how Terminus logically should work, or aesthetics. Not that those factors escaped their eyes by any means.
It seems almost self-evident that a regional system would encourage cooperation between players and discourage families of "alts" from being self-sufficient and needing to deal with no other players. In theory I can create all my characters in one city - keep all my materials in one city - do all my crafting in one city. In practice the great majority of us will want to diversify, see more, be based in different areas. Talking about those of us that intend to cover many or all crafts with different "alts". At least unless some conveniently located city evolves into the crafting hub for all of Terminus - which I hope doesn't happen.
If it takes many hours of travel for the woodworker to get the haft of a weapon to the ironsmith who will craft it - it would have to be a *really* expensive haft for me to do that instead of getting it from a local woodworker.
Well put, Bradley.
There are three major benefits to expressing our views on a subject even after we know which way VR currently intends to go.
One - they do read these forums and there is always the chance that something one of us has to say will change a mind over there. The more we give logic rather than emotion, do not attack other forum members, and do not say "my way or the highway" the more chance they will read our opinions with respect - albeit perhaps not agreement.
Two - testing may make them decide to go in a different direction and these forums will provide a treasure load of ideas as to other directions. Not that they cannot think for themselves but if they have a week to redo a decision that simply hasn't worked looking here will be a great convenience.
Three - it gives us some benefit for out pledge money. Many hours spent debating game theory and approaches with at least the illusion and perhaps the reality that an occasional comment may affect how the game actually goes in some way.
At first, my mind was tainted by the memory of the accidental, emergent and at times, tedious inventory management "mini-game"
But I like local banking for the following reason that it makes me go back to home city for respite or helping newbies. Down time or non-adventuring time can be part of the game, too.
Also the hope that maybe inventory will be handled differently, maybe not as much coin off monsters but only from stuff sold to NPC's? making the coin weight issue still applicable but not a hinderance to game play and only a hinderence when "in town" Depending on how crafting works, maybe only so much needs to be stored or the stackable items are huge so you only need one spot.
Reading the comments for envitonmental gear, maybe the first thig you would do in coming to a new city was build faction so you could open your own seperate bank account there. for organizational people this would be a nice mnemonic because you would know all your crafting itms are in thronefast, all your underwater gear is in syronai's rest, and all your bad-ass weapons are in the entire PvP continent of the Skar, and their indentured storage exchange where you have to be sure to encumber your "slave" or beast so they can't run off with your goods.
I can see for sophisticated (meaning higher level or multi-group people) adventurers this could be convenient. Heading to amberfaet? lets meet at the halfling town so we can get our cold and sheer resist potions/stuff from the bank that we have stored, there.
Shroud tried this. Didn't work. It never works.
" Today’s patch is mostly concerned with quality-of-life improvements, including the ability to skip sieges and control points. The studio also instituted global banks ... "
starblight said:I do not recall what MMO had this in the past but I know this would not be the first time I have seen it. While most of what Pantheon is doing I love, some choices will bother me and this is likely one of them. But it is a small negative part in an overall positive direction. I also doubt there will be any meaningful change in how people play because of this.
Wrong. I've played a couple games that do this and I ****ing hate it. Doens't encourage exploration, doesn't encourage travel and makes you want to only stay near where you are used to or where you spend most of your time playing. I played SotA for a year and I never ventured too far away from my "base" town because banking anywhere else was pointless. I'd load up with stuff that I kept (for crafting etc.) only to have to lug that WAY back to my "base". So I eventually stopped traveling and eventually quite the game.
(SotA, DF are two that I've played, that have this type of banking system)
Kittik said:starblight said:I do not recall what MMO had this in the past but I know this would not be the first time I have seen it. While most of what Pantheon is doing I love, some choices will bother me and this is likely one of them. But it is a small negative part in an overall positive direction. I also doubt there will be any meaningful change in how people play because of this.
Wrong. I've played a couple games that do this and I ****ing hate it. Doens't encourage exploration, doesn't encourage travel and makes you want to only stay near where you are used to or where you spend most of your time playing. I played SotA for a year and I never ventured too far away from my "base" town because banking anywhere else was pointless. I'd load up with stuff that I kept (for crafting etc.) only to have to lug that WAY back to my "base". So I eventually stopped traveling and eventually quite the game.
(SotA, DF are two that I've played, that have this type of banking system)
Did this game have a system to allow you to transfer items from one location to another other than just carrying it?
I thought I read they have ideas on a system that helps you move things if needed. If so, would that change your perception of it depending on how they implemented it? I think this is partially the point of making you want to deliberately commit to a certain area, but if it results in people not ever wanting to leave their current area, then that should be considered too, which I think they are.
In response to the comments/thoughts of people not needing to store money in a bank, I'd like to remind you that when you die, all of the belongings on your body stay with your body... including your money. I would also be willing to bet that there will be the need for food and water... which will also be left on your corpse. With my bard, I would always keep some extra stuff in my bank for CRs to include some instruments and stacks of food/drink. Haivng cash to pay for CR assistance or maybe checking the auctions while you're in town waiting for a rez is a thing too.