In past games like EQ, some items were discontinued after a time. Usually this was because they were deemed too powerful, and therefore needed to be removed from drop tables. However, it didn't feel fair to remove these items from players' inventories who had spent a lot of time and effort to acquire them. So even though the item didn't drop anymore, there were a few still in the world and they were drivers of the ingame economy.
I would really enjoy if VR proactively accounted for this with some items that, by design, only dropped within the game for 6mo-1year, or only dropped a specific number of times. They don't need to be best in slot, just unique. If I think an item looks cool or has a unique effect, I might be willing to pay for it. If I think an item looks cool and no one else can obtain one because it doesn't drop anymore, suddenly that item is VERY desirable.
If a few items were picked to be standouts that only drop for a limited time/limited number (could even be tied into the lore), I think they would go a long way towards building a history of the game world which adds a lot to the game. On top of that these items can add an additional layer for economically driven players.
If it were a nice drop and it were truely rare like that (not the generic rarity classifications that are on items today i.e. green, blue, yellow, red) then that item or even the few dozen of them would be worth a lot of money.
In my book i have no issue with this type of thing.
This would only really work if these items were vanity items and not awesome stat items. If super uber sword of awesomeness only dropped a few times and the lucky players were the only ones to have it. It would probably cause a small uprising amongst the other hardcore players who did not get one and can't compete with those lucky few. But if it was say like a Mount that only 1 person on the server gets, or a funky stylish fishing hat that only gets awarded to the winner of the yearly fishing competition and is used more for bragging rights, then it probably could work.
WoW had a special insect mount from the Ahn Qiraj called Black Qiraji Battle Tank. Only 1 person from each side (Alliance and Horde) got one per server. It was also the only Qiraji mount that was useable outside of Ahn Qiraj. All the other colors of the Qiraji mounts were only useable within the Ahn Qiraj zone itself.
On the topic of items that were too powerful and had to be removed. In EQ1 there was an item called Manastone that was insta-click convert some of your health into mana. It had no cooldown. This item was very farmed for clerics since it helped their mana management so much. Eventually many raid guilds would not accept Clerics into their raids until they had a manastone. So eventually they took it out of the game and it no longer dropped. The ones that people already had were flagged to only work in the Classic zones, and if you went into a Kunark or later expansion zone the Manastone was useless.
I have always like obtaining legacy items and such, I have a few in WoW that I show off sometimes and people get googly over it.
I think it's a great idea. People are always like " BUT MAH UNIQUENESS". Well for people complaining about having enough uniqueness, then look no further to items that you can't get anymore. Sure in the beginning you will see a lot of people with it, but later on when older people leave and new people come in, all of a sudden you have something that many players don't. Hence, the uniqueness of your character goes up.
Edit: forgot the word have between you and something
Conceptually, I'm in favor of "artifact" items which are limited to a small number per server (and one per character). However, to make that work there would always have to be new artifacts being added that other people could get, especially people who aren't launch players.
I'm not so sure on the idea of time-limited items. I'd want to attach them to story events so that it made sense in the context of the world that you wouldn't see them after a certain time. But there would need to be something comparable (in terms of stats) entering the game each time an old set rolled out of drop tables.
I think this is a great idea.I just hope they do not tie these drops to a single mob. I mean a single mob for each item. Make the items drop on multiple mobs a mobs and very rare drops. This may keep mobs from being camped 24/7 by a select few guilds,or groups . And as a mainly solo player maybe they can make these items fall off some mobs who can be soloed by a player who is around their same level and strength.Maybe the drops can be random drop from a lot of different mobs so keeping track of where they drop will be difficult to keep track of.
I think if something comes up deemed too OP then it should be retroactivly changed to NO DROP and the player that owns the item keeps it. This is a form of dynamic content change. I don't see why those that worked for it cant keep the reward. But please don't allow stuff like SOD's to be around 20 years later with price tags in the millions for goldfarmers to hoard.
A topic like this comes up every few months and I always ask the same question: Would you really play game where, once you get there, you find out that a bunch of really cool items, gear, weapons, quests, bosses are all things you can't enjoy because they were one-time only things or that their time in the game had passed? So many people think that one-off items are so cool, that they, out of everyone else, would somehow be the lucky person to get it when the odds are so stacked against you?
A person who puts in the requisite amount of time and effort should be able to experience all a game has to offer. Nobody should be denied content because they weren't lucky enough to have joined the game before a certain date or because some lame RNG decided some one-off item should go to someone else.
I'd really like to not see this again, it was just bad design. Realistically, every item in EQ that had been nerfed, DE Mask/Mana stone/fungus staff, should have had all the items in the market nerfed as well. Either that or just don't nerf the item and leave it in the game for everyone.
How about this, remember back in the day when EQ had events like in the east karats with special mobs that dropped unique items? So instead of your usually bosses mjbs dropping these items how about the event mobs that pop up from time to time did this instead that way you get thrill of enjoying the event while also getting cool items in the process.
Vandraad said:A topic like this comes up every few months and I always ask the same question: Would you really play game where, once you get there, you find out that a bunch of really cool items, gear, weapons, quests, bosses are all things you can't enjoy because they were one-time only things or that their time in the game had passed? So many people think that one-off items are so cool, that they, out of everyone else, would somehow be the lucky person to get it when the odds are so stacked against you?
A person who puts in the requisite amount of time and effort should be able to experience all a game has to offer. Nobody should be denied content because they weren't lucky enough to have joined the game before a certain date or because some lame RNG decided some one-off item should go to someone else.
By saying someone who didn't play from the game that didn't get to experience something isn't being denied it, they didn't even have the game to be denied it. That like saying they are denied a raid becuase when they finally got the game no one was raiding those targets anymore.
Riahuf22 said:Vandraad said:A topic like this comes up every few months and I always ask the same question: Would you really play game where, once you get there, you find out that a bunch of really cool items, gear, weapons, quests, bosses are all things you can't enjoy because they were one-time only things or that their time in the game had passed? So many people think that one-off items are so cool, that they, out of everyone else, would somehow be the lucky person to get it when the odds are so stacked against you?
A person who puts in the requisite amount of time and effort should be able to experience all a game has to offer. Nobody should be denied content because they weren't lucky enough to have joined the game before a certain date or because some lame RNG decided some one-off item should go to someone else.
By saying someone who didn't play from the game that didn't get to experience something isn't being denied it, they didn't even have the game to be denied it. That like saying they are denied a raid becuase when they finally got the game no one was raiding those targets anymore.
Just because someone isn't currently raiding a target does not preclude that person finding other person to go and experience that content. Only when the content does not exist can a person then not experience that content.
I have to agree w/ Vandraad here. This type of thing alienates new players. Pantheon is shaping up to be an MMO that will require a lengthy leveling process and fewer shortcuts and catch-up mechanics than most modern MMOs. Anyone who doesn't play from launch is going to be behind and have a good amount of catch-up to do. Let's not make the game any less welcoming to new players with systems like this one.
I think it does make a game more interesting if there items that are no longer dropping cause they seem to be overpowered.
It makes being first at something seemingly more worthwhile if you get lucky.
As long as you can still buy them theres still a chance for new players to get them.
And even if not i didn have much of thoose OP items in EQ, but it didn bother me much since there was still the chance to buy them.
(And making them no drop would prevent that, so its a worse fix for me you should just change it to be less overpowered if so)
Actually i hate No Drop with a passion to me it needs to be Account bound at least so i could keep trading it between my own Characters.
In EQ it was mostly items that were deemed unbalanced yet devs didn't want to upset the uberpowerful guild members that owned them.
If devs find something is unbalanced, They sould just change it for the good of the game (they didn't have to 'remove' them, just nerf them a little).
Anyway, the idea is still interesting to make things more desirable by discontinuing them.
Might cause some horrible squabbling if it's known in advance things will be time limited. Might cause some general increase in squabbling is it's *not* known which items will be time limited, though...
Hmm. Not sure.
Vandraad said:A topic like this comes up every few months and I always ask the same question: Would you really play game where, once you get there, you find out that a bunch of really cool items, gear, weapons, quests, bosses are all things you can't enjoy because they were one-time only things or that their time in the game had passed? So many people think that one-off items are so cool, that they, out of everyone else, would somehow be the lucky person to get it when the odds are so stacked against you?
A person who puts in the requisite amount of time and effort should be able to experience all a game has to offer. Nobody should be denied content because they weren't lucky enough to have joined the game before a certain date or because some lame RNG decided some one-off item should go to someone else.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on this on Vandraad. This comment smells of entitlement more than fair play. And I'm not suggesting that it only happen once, and I'm also not suggesting it be a super OverPowered item. Maybe the same stats but different color or different VFX or different hand use (i.e. its equipped in the left hand when every other item is for right handers (yes I'm bitter about this, lol)).
Also, it could be an event on the release anniversary every year. So, you missed the 10 items that dropped last year, you'll have your chance next year etc. etc. etc.
I think the pre nerf Circlet of shadow is a good example of why it shouldn't be the case. Sometimes, unintended abilities on objects lead to extrême edges in some situations, and keeping them locked out of later players create a too big disparity in class and role possibilities.
I'm not against "fluctuating stats" on items by seasons or or on abstract cycles, but I don't think they bring much except "since XX this item is so OP everyone will camp it, YY item is now trash and forget about it", or like the aformensionned above : Class disparity by offering exceptionnal tools in many situations.
Gnog said:I have to agree w/ Vandraad here. This type of thing alienates new players. Pantheon is shaping up to be an MMO that will require a lengthy leveling process and fewer shortcuts and catch-up mechanics than most modern MMOs. Anyone who doesn't play from launch is going to be behind and have a good amount of catch-up to do. Let's not make the game any less welcoming to new players with systems like this one.
Were not talking class defining items, merely maybe high end dungeon quality, and def not BiS, that way if you missed it yeah that sucks but at least you don't feel "left behind" and it gives a nice twist to zones with the events if they introduce them. There's nothing wrong with loot that only exsist for a certain amount of time, and honestly it isn't going to stop new players from playing becuase I have never seen a game make a class defining item from dropping, simply hasn't happen.
You can even have it like they did on eq and the east karana zone had the event and it had like lvl20-50 mobs so basically everyone could attend and have fun experiencing the event. And give decent loot while seeing the world come alive at the same time, maybe do it across multiple zones so it isn't overcrowded for sure but still experience something new at the same time. I see some great potential here because I still say one of my greatest memories of eq was in that event becuase it was simply awesome to me.
Gnog said:I have to agree w/ Vandraad here. This type of thing alienates new players. Pantheon is shaping up to be an MMO that will require a lengthy leveling process and fewer shortcuts and catch-up mechanics than most modern MMOs. Anyone who doesn't play from launch is going to be behind and have a good amount of catch-up to do. Let's not make the game any less welcoming to new players with systems like this one.
Really. OMG we have socialist running around on this board. There is no.. let me catch up to veterans and experience all loot that dropped for them. I do hope they have a system to drop in lvls to promote grouping with anyone at any lvl downward to include the new players. I am not trying to sound eletist but if an Item is deemed to powerful and has itself nerfed or discontinued from drop.. there is a reason. This does not pertain to any experience. You will still have a fight, encounter to enjoy.
Also that whole manastone thing. It was overpowered. I like how they initially handled it. First they added cast time to the new ones.. before stopping drop all together. The old ones sadly were retroactivly changed with made me sad. I never Ever Ever was denied access to a guild as a cleric because I did not have manastone. If clerics were low on turn out we just had necros to pump us with mana or mod rods (which also got hit with a casting time addition) So although the item was taken out of game we still had alternatives. Now if you were a cleric without a spinkler... hell that just turned into a .. lets take x cleric and get him his sprinkler.
They did have cool events in eq that did hand out specific rare items in limited quantity. Most were just uniquely named effects or names never used again for items. Most often these just often resulted in added title... aka of the nexus. I could get behind this.. because so rarely did they happen and so few items were handed out.. Like 3 per server kind of thing. Although in this regards will be pretty unlikely. Brad has already announced that although they may consider server events.. he sees it as something only to consider on really rare occasions due to staff requirements to pull off these events on every server with live action players instead of just swarms of npcs. Also expressed the difficulty of doing these in different time zones in fairness for all players to have a chance to participate.
There shouldn't be items designed specifically for this. But I support making nerfs to items deemed too powerful under standard use.
If you want to create uniqueness, make levels of raising that get progressively harder.
When I would sit around org on my holy pally in full T6... people would go nuts. Because sunwell was so difficult that only a very small amount of people had items from the zone.
Enjoying the discussion in this thread. To recap the pros and cons.
PROS: These items contribute to player economy in the long term as "collectibles." They help create a played history in the world, rather than an entirely lore driven history. They are really fun for the limited players who obtain them.
CONS: Can feel insurmountable to new players, especially if they are particularly powerful items. Represent a drain on developer resources. Don't feel "fair" when some players are denied access.
If the developers do include these types of items I hope they are proactive in their designs to minimize the cons enumerated by the community.
So by some peoples logic, should new players get the tabard you get for backing the game? I mean it is part of the game. If new players find this game out and never had a chance to back it...you know...thats bad.
Btw a lot of people are going for the arguement of nerf items and such. I think the op is just talking about limited items designed for a limited time. I don't think they should be op, but they should be good enough to wear for that current era. Maybe a limited mount or tabard, or cloak. Stuff like that.
Don't know why people feel soo burdened to do every single thing in the game and get every single piece of gear, whether relevant or not. As long as the items aren't tied to some achievement, then it does no harm to the game. People will be jealous no matter what with what they don't have. Having limited items every now and then doesn't make the more jealous...just jealous like everything else they don't have.
Vandraad said:A topic like this comes up every few months and I always ask the same question: Would you really play game where, once you get there, you find out that a bunch of really cool items, gear, weapons, quests, bosses are all things you can't enjoy because they were one-time only things or that their time in the game had passed? So many people think that one-off items are so cool, that they, out of everyone else, would somehow be the lucky person to get it when the odds are so stacked against you?
A person who puts in the requisite amount of time and effort should be able to experience all a game has to offer. Nobody should be denied content because they weren't lucky enough to have joined the game before a certain date or because some lame RNG decided some one-off item should go to someone else.
Agree 100%. I find removing content to pretty much universally be a bad idea in a persistent-world game.