Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

    • 97 posts
    August 24, 2018 5:23 AM PDT
    Watching Nick pull that huge train at the end of the stream was hilariously awesome. Does anyone else feel this could be a little exploitive? Being able to pull a mob from deep inside a dungeon, while outside, feels a little broken.

    This is completely about the ability to affect an entire dungeon without being in it. It's not about wanting tethers, it's about being able to agro a mob over a fence so your naked group can run in.

    I'm an old EQ player and I get this is a tactic people would use to help corpse runs but you'd normally have to be in the dungeon to agro.
    • 219 posts
    August 24, 2018 6:09 AM PDT

    This is definitely going to be fixed. I wouldn't fret about it to much at this point in Pre-Alpha.

     

    • 190 posts
    August 24, 2018 6:27 AM PDT
    Usually there's more people than just your group. You'd earn yourself a bad rep purposely doing that . Have fun finding a group once the word got out. Now if it's just your group... have fun!!! :-)
    • 3852 posts
    August 24, 2018 7:51 AM PDT

    Trains can and will be used for pvp on a pve server.

    Pulling mobs away from an area you want to get into and letting them take a long time to get back to defend the area they should be guarding is an exploit.

    Pulled mobs should have relatively short tethers so they can get back to where the developers put them. Pulled mobs shouldn't attack innocent bystanders that neither attack them nor in any way help their enemies.

    90% of the forum disagrees with me because trains were a feature of EQ and therefore are sacred. Pantheon will have trains but the loyal opposition might as well speak up now and then.


    This post was edited by dorotea at August 24, 2018 7:51 AM PDT
    • 1315 posts
    August 24, 2018 8:10 AM PDT

    I think trains have value to create an environment of impending doom if serious mistakes are made.  What I don’t think trains should be is an endless agro chain where every mob of any rank will chase after the naked Halfling until the ends of the earth.  Its just silly.

    I would break down agro AI into several tiers.  Each tier increases or decreases agro at a certain rate and eventually they lose interest and return to their spawn point.  If you are in their defended territory there is one rate, if you a harming a member of their group there is another, if you have killed a member of their group they are locked on until they flee.  Having 40 mobs chase you because you were sitting too close eating your lunch as they parade by is just ridiculous.

    I can see certain mobs having the disposition of Guard and will chase any enemy in the zone they are defending but they should be the exception not the rule.  No self-respecting dungeon boss will chase after nameless players who have not done much to offend them personally.

    • 239 posts
    August 24, 2018 9:49 AM PDT
    Trains are a part of life in a good MMO. We hate, yet we love them. I would like to see some more game design to help leasing the amount of un needed trains. We all know early in this game there will be players reaching too deep in areas and running for their lives. I hope to see faster mobs, or more mobs that can effect this run depending on their environment. Small example if your in Rose keep I would imagine a gators would have nets/cuffs. Something as simple as a " root " spell called cuffed.. or something much more creative. But you understand my point more NPC is root or share spells to stop these runners.
    Another big train effect is pathing. I am sure they will fix a lot of this but that was always a big deal in EQ to weather you got sucked into the train, or it ran by you harmlessly as you pointed and laughed.
    • 1021 posts
    August 24, 2018 9:52 AM PDT

    What if after you aggro'd a mob, and ran away from it the next time you approach that mob (unless you killed it, or it killed you) it's aggro range is larger for you and smaller for other people who haven't aggroed it?  I think mobs should have teathers also, but to avoid abuse by players who will run past a few mobs, gather them up and train them until they break off.  After the mobs break off you, their aggro range for everyone else is much smaller on their way back to their point, but then next time you try to go into their area, their agrro for you is much larger radius.

    • 190 posts
    August 24, 2018 9:59 AM PDT
    If someone came into my castle and killed people. You're damn right I and the rest of my followers would chase them to the ends of the earth. Or until it wasn't safe territory to follow.

    Lots of other easy mode games out there where the mobs will not follow or just lose aggro after 50 feet.
    • 1021 posts
    August 24, 2018 10:13 AM PDT

    Kastor said: If someone came into my castle and killed people. You're damn right I and the rest of my followers would chase them to the ends of the earth. Or until it wasn't safe territory to follow. Lots of other easy mode games out there where the mobs will not follow or just lose aggro after 50 feet.

    Good point.  But this is a game where people would use exploits if they are there.  And players will find them.

    • 198 posts
    August 24, 2018 10:59 AM PDT

    Kittik said:

    Kastor said: If someone came into my castle and killed people. You're damn right I and the rest of my followers would chase them to the ends of the earth. Or until it wasn't safe territory to follow. Lots of other easy mode games out there where the mobs will not follow or just lose aggro after 50 feet.

    Good point.  But this is a game where people would use exploits if they are there.  And players will find them.

     

    I dont think it is an exploit for starters.

    Players who grief other players will find themselves alone with no friends and no way to progress.

    • 97 posts
    August 24, 2018 11:08 AM PDT

    Parascol said: 

    I dont think it is an exploit for starters.

    Players who grief other players will find themselves alone with no friends and no way to progress.

    True but it could also be used to grief an entire dungeon without anyone knowing who did it. If you don't have to enter a dungeon to pull a train you're essentially anonymous.

    • 57 posts
    August 24, 2018 11:21 AM PDT

    There is zero chance that they will let that fly. They're really making the game look good and their progress since I started to follow is crazy but its not there yet. Like Pyde said... 

     

    Pyde said:

    I wouldn't fret about it to much at this point in Pre-Alpha.

     

    • 612 posts
    August 24, 2018 12:32 PM PDT

    Don't forget about dispositions. Guards will likely have a 'I must do my duty and stay at my post' disposition that means they won't chase players who run too far away from that area. There may even be a 'I'm really lazy' disposition where a guard see's a couple of his fellow guards chasing a player and says "You guys got this!!" and yawns and wanders back to his post and sips a cup of tea.


    This post was edited by GoofyWarriorGuy at August 24, 2018 12:33 PM PDT
    • 697 posts
    August 24, 2018 12:32 PM PDT

    That's why there are things like invis, hide, feign death, and camping out and back in. EQ had zone wide aggro and people dealt with it perfectly fine. If you ran far enough the mob gave up...usually. Guards were also helpful...except Guard Nash...He let s bear murder me when I was right next to him and he walked past me.

    • 137 posts
    August 24, 2018 2:21 PM PDT

    Having trains in EQ was a blessing and a curse. Albeit, I believe in hindsight (after many later years on P99) that more often than not having trains added a lot to the game more so than they did detract from the game because of trolls. I am hoping that mobs are willing to chase players for long periods of time, call for help/aggro others, and there will be trains. Moving to WoW years back, not having to worry about trains or chasing mobs really cut down on the level of danger experienced. It was quite boring.

    • 57 posts
    August 24, 2018 4:20 PM PDT

    Its a humbling experience to think youve outwitted a mob only to see them charge in and bash you to death with a club. I was never as slick as I thought I was. 

     


    This post was edited by Bradley at August 24, 2018 4:21 PM PDT
    • 198 posts
    August 24, 2018 4:52 PM PDT

    Avaen said:

    Parascol said: 

    I dont think it is an exploit for starters.

    Players who grief other players will find themselves alone with no friends and no way to progress.

    True but it could also be used to grief an entire dungeon without anyone knowing who did it. If you don't have to enter a dungeon to pull a train you're essentially anonymous.

     

    I have no doubt this will happen.  I also have no doubt it won't be long until said anonymous player is no longer anonymous and suddenly very lonely with no way to progress.


    This post was edited by Parascol at August 24, 2018 4:52 PM PDT
    • 363 posts
    August 24, 2018 6:00 PM PDT

    There will be players who push the boundaries and run trains for their own personal douchbaggery. They will know the meaning of lonliness.

    • 9115 posts
    August 24, 2018 6:05 PM PDT

    Keep in mind that a lot of these things are still a work in progress folks, what you see in Pre-Alpha testing streams will be far from what you see in the official final product launched to the public.

    • 21 posts
    August 24, 2018 6:17 PM PDT

    Bronsun said:

    There will be players who push the boundaries and run trains for their own personal douchbaggery. They will know the meaning of lonliness.

     

    That might have been true back in the day when there wasn't a lot of people playing these games..... Now days those kind of people band together with like minded people to ruin even more peoples fun well not totally true, the douchbaggers are having a blast.....

     

     

    • 755 posts
    August 24, 2018 6:28 PM PDT

    I think a simple AI fix to check player level should help determine aggro distance/range/tether. A level 50 trying to create a train of level 5's probably wouldnt work as well as a train of level 50's.

    • 239 posts
    August 25, 2018 7:43 AM PDT
    Guys do not worry about trains. Just like BlackBurrow in EQ1 I am sure everyone remembers the group trying to take the general and then making a train mess for about an hour of people zoning in and just continuing the train as mobs re-popped. But there was always that lvl 30 guy that cam in and killed them all as we sat there and just inspected his gear. Then he would wave to everyone, maybe throw a /flex out and be on his way never to be seen from again.
    Haha this train incident would happen there every few hours and we turned out just fine. ;)
    • 75 posts
    August 27, 2018 6:18 AM PDT

    dorotea said:

    Trains can and will be used for pvp on a pve server.

    Pulling mobs away from an area you want to get into and letting them take a long time to get back to defend the area they should be guarding is an exploit.

    Pulled mobs should have relatively short tethers so they can get back to where the developers put them. Pulled mobs shouldn't attack innocent bystanders that neither attack them nor in any way help their enemies.

    90% of the forum disagrees with me because trains were a feature of EQ and therefore are sacred. Pantheon will have trains but the loyal opposition might as well speak up now and then.

    How is it an exploit? That's like saying using stealth or invis to bypass mobs is an exploit. Or are you referring to training other groups with said mobs? 

    • 646 posts
    August 27, 2018 7:18 AM PDT

    dorotea said:Trains can and will be used for pvp on a pve server.

    Pulling mobs away from an area you want to get into and letting them take a long time to get back to defend the area they should be guarding is an exploit.

    Pulled mobs should have relatively short tethers so they can get back to where the developers put them. Pulled mobs shouldn't attack innocent bystanders that neither attack them nor in any way help their enemies.

    90% of the forum disagrees with me because trains were a feature of EQ and therefore are sacred. Pantheon will have trains but the loyal opposition might as well speak up now and then.

    I agree. I'm having a hard time thinking of a non-griefing or non-exploitative reason for trains. They shouldn't exist, but I guess they will.

    • 190 posts
    August 27, 2018 7:56 AM PDT
    They should definitely exist. Pantheon and VR stick to your vision.