Vandraad said:Porygon said:it's a video game. Everything that happens is immersion breaking.
There is something called 'willful suspension of disbelief' where, consciously, you stop looking at things with a critical mind, put aside logic and choose to believe in something that is surreal purely for the sake enjoyment. Through the suspension of disbelief you can then 'be immersed' into something like a book, movie or game even when there are blatantly obvious flags to the contrary.
Ive been thinking about immersion breaking for a few days and it came down to this. Anything that is implemented in the game as a feature is immersion in the game. Anything that references the outside world either a popup or any other type of thing is going to break my immersion. So having cash bots send me tells/messages saying i can buy gold for cheap, that is immersion breaking. Having a cash shop is immersion breaking. Voice chat is immersion breaking.
Thats how i view things. /shrug
Kittik said: I don't think Voice chat is immersion breaking. It's when people start rapping, or they just blast their playlist through the headset, or its when they leave their mic on and start yelling at their kids is when it becomes immersion breaking.
Don't forget eating... nothing more spine tinglingly anoying that somebody chomping crackers in your ears. Which is why every voice chat should have the ability to mute a specific person.
GoofyWarriorGuy said:Kittik said: I don't think Voice chat is immersion breaking. It's when people start rapping, or they just blast their playlist through the headset, or its when they leave their mic on and start yelling at their kids is when it becomes immersion breaking.
Don't forget eating... nothing more spine tinglingly anoying that somebody chomping crackers in your ears. Which is why every voice chat should have the ability to mute a specific person.
+1
Can we get a community standards rule put in for this some where?
kreed99 said:Ive been thinking about immersion breaking for a few days and it came down to this. Anything that is implemented in the game as a feature is immersion in the game. Anything that references the outside world either a popup or any other type of thing is going to break my immersion. So having cash bots send me tells/messages saying i can buy gold for cheap, that is immersion breaking. Having a cash shop is immersion breaking. Voice chat is immersion breaking.
Thats how i view things. /shrug
By your logic the game itself is immersion breaking. Everything in the game, even the game itself is an artificial construct. The UI breaks your immersion, as would zonelines or the fact you can carry 10 bags or can instantly switch out entire sets of armor and weapons, or can jump off a tall building without dying from the impact. So tell me, how do you actually enjoy gems?
Vandraad said:By your logic the game itself is immersion breaking. Everything in the game, even the game itself is an artificial construct. The UI breaks your immersion, as would zonelines or the fact you can carry 10 bags or can instantly switch out entire sets of armor and weapons, or can jump off a tall building without dying from the impact. So tell me, how do you actually enjoy gems?
By realizing it's a video game and finding an aspect of the game to challenge myself.... I dont have to be transported to a virtual world in my mind in order to enjoy a video game... and if that's the only way you do...
I'm sorry.
Quality of Life? That is a term I have grown to despise over the years with erm..other MMO titles. But I think it is good to have a solid User Interface. All that other stuff I can do without. To Vandraad and Porygon all I can ask is: are you guys sure you are following the right MMO? It sounds like you are looking for a purely gameplay mechanic oriented title. I don't think that's what Pantheon is aiming to be from everything I have seen thus far. I've seen enough of your posts to get the feeling you would be far more comfortable playing WoW or FFXIV. My point being those types of MMOs are already out there with enough QoL you can just do the combat and ignore everything else.
Many of us have widely varying, and sometimes strong, opinions on different aspects of the game.
Let us all try to avoid telling those who disagree with us that maybe they would be happier with wo ....er .... other games.
For this niche effort to succeed it will need most of us behind it even if we don't see eye to eye on important points.
Kittik said:What Quality of Life systems do we come to expect now a days that EQ didn't have on release? Or what are some you know of that we shouldn't have.
- Mail and trade between players, and mail between alts on your account
- An in-game map (it doesn't have to give your location, but a map of some kind)
- Fully functional report and block system, with a block list that isn't stupidly short
- Some degree of "fast travel", be it flight paths or portals or whatever (doesn't have to be extensive, even if just between major cities)
- A need/greed/pass loot system that takes into account players' class (e.g. a heavy armor class cannot roll need on light armor)
- Shift-click to loot everything on a corpse (would like AoE loot, but it's not necessary), because the last thing I need is to aggravate my carpal tunnel
- Fully realized costume and dye system a la Rift, WildStar, WoW, ESO, etc, so that we can make our characters unique to ourselves rather than look like clones of everyone else
- Some kind of LFG chat channel or UI
- Chat limit that is large enough to support roleplay
- Custom emotes with /e
- Centralized trade/auction system, because I have no desire to spend my limited game time sitting in a single location and spamming chat in the hopes that someone has what I'm looking for/buys what I want to sell
Naunet said:Kittik said:What Quality of Life systems do we come to expect now a days that EQ didn't have on release? Or what are some you know of that we shouldn't have.
- Mail and trade between players, and mail between alts on your account
- An in-game map (it doesn't have to give your location, but a map of some kind)
- Fully functional report and block system, with a block list that isn't stupidly short
- Some degree of "fast travel", be it flight paths or portals or whatever (doesn't have to be extensive, even if just between major cities)
- A need/greed/pass loot system that takes into account players' class (e.g. a heavy armor class cannot roll need on light armor)
- Shift-click to loot everything on a corpse (would like AoE loot, but it's not necessary), because the last thing I need is to aggravate my carpal tunnel
- Fully realized costume and dye system a la Rift, WildStar, WoW, ESO, etc, so that we can make our characters unique to ourselves rather than look like clones of everyone else
- Some kind of LFG chat channel or UI
- Chat limit that is large enough to support roleplay
- Custom emotes with /e
- Centralized trade/auction system, because I have no desire to spend my limited game time sitting in a single location and spamming chat in the hopes that someone has what I'm looking for/buys what I want to sell
I support all of this.
Except the weird roleplaying ones. Eww.
Porygon said:Except the weird roleplaying ones. Eww.
;D Too late, I've already gotten RP cooties all over the forum!
I want to expand briefly on the report/block list: Reporting for spam should auto-block the player without adding them to your manual block list. I really like how WoW handles this. Look at FFXIV for an example of how NOT to design report and block systems.
Porygon said:...By realizing it's a video game and finding an aspect of the game to challenge myself.... I dont have to be transported to a virtual world in my mind in order to enjoy a video game... and if that's the only way you do...
I'm sorry.
You want to play a video game. No need to apologize (even sarcastically).
Many folks want to live in a virtual world.
It's sort of the difference between playing Candy Crush on your smartphone, versus visiting the Oasis in R-P-O. Both can be very engaging and fun, but one is a strict video game and one is a virtual world.
Porygon said : Except the weird roleplaying ones. Eww.
I bet you've never seen weird roleplaying things for now, theses are soft candy in comparison to what some players might want. Anyway what's is bizarre about a big chat and an outfit system, is that just the roleplay world that triggered you ?
A quality of life thing I greatly appreciate is an auto sorting inventory. Examples from Warcraft can be found below. I recally dislike having to search through bags for a particular item. Knowing exactly where it is, not having to open multiple bags to even see all of your items, not having to specifically place an item back into a particular slot to track it is a great bonus. With the gear sets I have read about, I am certain I am going to end up with items in the first randomly available slot, unless this is implemented.
One item, which always causes issues if you don't have a smart bag management tool, is switching between a 2 hand sword, and a sword and board.
This could be part of the default UI or part of allowable to be manipulated by an add on.
On other quality of life item I need, and I simply won't be able to play the game without, is a camera system with alot of control. I need to be able to run in one direction with my keyboard, and pan my camera around. I need to be able to fight in 3rd person, using my hot keys on the keyboard, and pan around with my mouse, to call out when a mob is approaching from behind.
Quality of life is all about perspective so no one perspective is right or wrong. Best thing VR can do is find a good middle ground. I'm confident they will do this the best they can and in turn there will be some QoL or lack thereof that I will be or not be happy with. I'm still going to play the game and I'm sure I'll enjoy it either way (I have yet to play a game I didn't like to some degree).
That said, I like most every QoL item mentioned, provided those items are included with some restraint.My most important QoL item is bag space, I need a lot of it 8-). My biggest gripe is when inventory management becomes a game within a game.
---My opinions are not humble, they are just my opinions---
Quality of life I would like to see in no particular order
Things I would not like to see
QoL:
-Easy sorting of inventory
-Multiple saved gear sets you can click and will automatically equip those pieces if in your inventory.
-Shift click looting everything on one mob..not AOE looting.
- Fleshed out LFG Tool
- Bank with a seprate tab for reagents/crafting material
- Shared bank with alts
QoL I don't want to see:
-Fast travel: No good argument for fast travel other than me me me(Because then I want clarity/ slow/mez, rez and all the other stuff monoplized by other characters on my character)
- Instancing: (defeats purpose of open world)
-In game map: ( Big immersion killer when all I do is look at a map and auto run to the destination I want to go)
starblight said:
- Turn off exp gain (Vanguard had this ability and we used it all the time. You could turn it on if you had more time to play then your friends. It was also helpful to make sure you did not out level an area before you wanted too.
- Shared exp like vanguard brotherhood even when other player is offline.
With a quality mentor system, which seems to be the direction pantheon is going, i dont know if theres a reason to turn off exp.
Also, how exactly would shared exp work? Would it be full exp as if the player was online and playing. Or would they just receive a % of what they normally would.
Porygon said:starblight said:
- Turn off exp gain (Vanguard had this ability and we used it all the time. You could turn it on if you had more time to play then your friends. It was also helpful to make sure you did not out level an area before you wanted too.
- Shared exp like vanguard brotherhood even when other player is offline.
With a quality mentor system, which seems to be the direction pantheon is going, i dont know if theres a reason to turn off exp.
Also, how exactly would shared exp work? Would it be full exp as if the player was online and playing. Or would they just receive a % of what they normally would.
We used the ability to turn off exp gain not only to prevent out leveling friends but also to keep an area challenging. For example we might start exploring a dungeon slightly before the level that would be recommended but before we wanted to move on we would have out leveled it. So we turn off our exp gain once we hit what we felt was a perfect challenge for us. If we found the dungeon deeper got to hard it was easy to solve by turning exp back on and gaining levels. I realize it might not be needed but I feel it should be a easy thing to add and I think people would be surprised how much they use it. I know it surprised us when we did but we ened up using it all the time.
It has been some time sense I played Vanguard but I think brotherhood worked by sharing the exp gain the same as if you were grouped. But if you were not grouped then there was no added exp when the other player was offline. So if you were in a brotherhood with one other person and they were offline instead of getting your normal 100 exp points you would get 50. But if they were online and grouped with you there would be no change in how exp worked.
starblight said:We used the ability to turn off exp gain not only to prevent out leveling friends but also to keep an area challenging. For example we might start exploring a dungeon slightly before the level that would be recommended but before we wanted to move on we would have out leveled it. So we turn off our exp gain once we hit what we felt was a perfect challenge for us. If we found the dungeon deeper got to hard it was easy to solve by turning exp back on and gaining levels. I realize it might not be needed but I feel it should be a easy thing to add and I think people would be surprised how much they use it. I know it surprised us when we did but we ened up using it all the time.
Wouldn't a mentor system accomplish the exact same thing. If you want to be level 15 to go through a dungeon... just mentor to 15. No need for an exp stop mechanic.